Protestant Selling Indulgences

[Coder]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

 

[BornInMarch]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

To understand this, you should know that “Protestantism” isn’t so much one Christian Denomination as it is a loose grouping of hundreds of different Christian Denominations. It’s a VERY diverse group, but Protestant Churches usually have a couple of things in common.

One thing they have in common is Universal Priesthood, or a Priesthood of All Believers. This is the belief that all Christians have a common link to God through their prayers and that therefore that Clergy need not be set apart from the rest of society.

The positive aspects of Universal Priesthood is that Protestant Priests and Reverends and Pastors can get married and have children and hold other careers in addition to their religious duties. This makes the position more accessible.

The downside is that ANYONE can start their own church. Even people who have very Earthly motivations at heart. A key example of this is televangelism; using technology to bring the word of God to a greater number of people is a good idea in theory, but in practice it corrupt Televangelists use it to ask for money which they can then spend on themselves.

 

[jaimeleglise]

You are correct, Prosperity theology is a false theology and can be a form of idolatry.

Yes, God wants us to be happy and have our needs met. But we cannot bribe God by giving
donations to TV churches.

Plenty of good people are poor and plenty of evil people are rich. If we are blessed with material wealth, it isn’t necessarily a reward for our good behavior.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

 

[BobCatholic]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

Actually it sounds more like Simony.

“A spiritual benefit is for sale, just donate to me.” says the televangelist.

 

[Jesus_123]

+*In all peace . . . *

As God’s beloved Catholic children . . . I think we need to . . .* humbly* . . . be *. . . very . . . very . . . very . . . *careful in trying to judge the actions of other Christians in this area . . . particularly with wide critical generalizations . . .

Sacred :bible1: Scripture teaches the below . . . so . . . “blessing” . . . and . . . “prosperity” . . . in and of themselves . . . can indeed come directly from the hand of God as a soul cooperates with Him through giving to Him for the work of God here upon this earth . . .

:bible1: "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. [38] Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. - Luke 6:37-38 drv​

• . . . all for Jesus+​
  *

 

[Coder]

Well, we can certainly evaluate someone’s intentions with regards to giving them money. Such evaluations are part of daily life. I think it’s the gift of discernment

 

[punisherthunder]

My wife’s cousin is like this at her church. Freewheeling, come as you are in shorts and sandals, non-confrontational, 1000% properity ministry advocation. I’ve never been told so many times by another person that I need to pray to God to make me rich.

 

[BornInMarch]

Well, we can certainly evaluate someone’s intentions with regards to giving them money. Such evaluations are part of daily life. I think it’s the gift of discernment

You’d think so, yet day after day televangelists and other assorted con artists gain tens of thousands of dollars from various people.

“Buy our new Herbal Placebo and we promise it will make your, your hair grow fuller, will increase your metabolism, and will even cure death!”

 

[adamhovey1988]

You’d think so, yet day after day televangelists and other assorted con artists gain tens of thousands of dollars from various people.

“Buy our new Herbal Placebo and we promise it will make your, your hair grow fuller, will increase your metabolism, and will even cure death!”

I grew up poor, so those folks have my ire.

 

[Rosebud77]

+*In all peace . . . *

As God’s beloved Catholic children . . . I think we need to . . .* humbly* . . . be *. . . very . . . very . . . very . . . *careful in trying to judge the actions of other Christians in this area . . . particularly with wide critical generalizations . . .

Sacred :bible1: Scripture teaches the below . . . so . . . “blessing” . . . and . . . “prosperity” . . . in and of themselves . . . can indeed come directly from the hand of God as a soul cooperates with Him through giving to Him for the work of God here upon this earth . . .

:bible1: "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. [38] Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. - Luke 6:37-38 drv​

• . . . all for Jesus*+​

Thank you for this wisdom

 

[1pppp]

Those who receive. A prophet. Receive the prophet. Blessing, or a righteous man,s reward, if the rhama word is not for you, then it is foolishness, 4 the natural man does not receive spiritual blessings,or reward

 

[adamhovey1988]

Those who receive. A prophet. Receive the prophet. Blessing, or a righteous man,s reward, if the rhama word is not for you, then it is foolishness, 4 the natural man does not receive spiritual blessings,or reward

I smell taking scripture out of context. As I have read the entire Bible, I have found God’s favour is on the poor.

 

[ltwin]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

What you are talking about are advocates of prosperity theology, also known as the health and wealth gospel. This is by no means “traditional Protestantism.” The antics of TBN are a long way off from Luther, Calvin, and John Knox.

There are many parallels that can be drawn between modern prosperity preachers and the medieval indulgence trade. Both offer spiritual rewards in exchange for financial donations. One offers physical healing and material abundance if you give money to the high-flying evangelist. The other offered release from purgatory in return for payment–most famously as a fundraising measure to rebuild St. Peter’s, which is what angered Luther so much it provoked him to write his 95 Theses.

 

[Coder]

This is by no means “traditional Protestantism.”

Yes, very good point and we can’t paint with a broad brush. I guess my focus was the irony of Catholicism being criticized.

Thank you.

 

[benjohnson]

What Lutherans think of “prosperity gospel” stuff:

youtube.com/watch?v=KA_wWmVlypg

 

[Hatikvah]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

No, that “foundation” was simply what propelled Luther forth. In fact, the selling of indulgences was not really lawful under the canons (or so it has been said; I’m no historical canon lawyer!), but it still occured in some capacity (and Luther saw it while he was in Rome according to most sources). The prosperity gospel is kind of odd and unprecedented, that’s for sure. Also, since this is only the theology of certain groups or congregations, we cannot make sweeping generalizations of “all Protestants” or “all (any group).”

Imagine Jesus telling His disciples that their problems can be fixed if they gave Him money!

To understand this, you should know that “Protestantism” isn’t so much one Christian Denomination as it is a loose grouping of hundreds of different Christian Denominations. It’s a VERY diverse group, but Protestant Churches usually have a couple of things in common.

No, Protestants are not one body in the way that the Palmarian Catholic Church is nor in the way that the True Catholic Church sect is nor in the way that any of these groups are. The truth is that Protestantism isn’t all so diverse but its interpretations are. Then again, all of Christianity is diverse (the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria is ancient, and so is the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East, and they came up with different conclusions to the same issue).

This is from a reputable Catholic source on “why we need to stop saying that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations”: ncregister.com/blog/scottericalt/we-need-to-stop-saying-that-there-are-33000-protestant-denominations

What you are talking about are advocates of prosperity theology, also known as the health and wealth gospel. This is by no means “traditional Protestantism.” The antics of TBN are a long way off from Luther, Calvin, and John Knox.

And this sums up my point even better.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

This is from a reputable Catholic source on “why we need to stop saying that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations”: ncregister.com/blog/scottericalt/we-need-to-stop-saying-that-there-are-33000-protestant-denominations
:

Probably only half that 33,000 number.

But even if it’s only 1,000, that’s still 999 too many as Jesus wants us unified and the early Church he established demanded it.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Luther right before his break with the Church:

“If Christ had not entrusted all power to one man, the Church would not have been perfect because there would have been no order and each one would have been able to say he was led by the Holy Spirit. This is what the heretics did, each one setting up his own principle. In this way as many Churches arose as there were heads. Christ therefore wills, in order that all may be assembled in one unity, that His power be exercised by one man to whom He Himself commits it. He has, however, made this power so strong that He looses all the powers of Hell (without injury) against it. He says: “The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” as though He said: “They will fight against it but never overcome it,” so it is in this way it is made manifest that this power is in reality from God and not from man. Wherefore, whoever breaks away from this unity and order of the power, let him not boast of great enlightenment and wonderful works, as our Picards and other heretics do, ‘for much better is obedience than to be the victims of fools who know not what evil they do”

Ironically, he sounded like a GREAT Catholic apologist

 

[Padres1969]

It amazes me that one of the foundations of Protestantism is the supposed selling of Indulgences in Catholicism yet so many times when I watch Protestant/Christian TV, the implication is clear - give a donation and you’ll receive a blessing and/or be prosperous (including financially). Sometimes it’s not even subtle.

I’m not saying that they’re all like that but there’s a lot of it.

There may seem like there’s a lot of it, but keep in mind that Prosperity preachers and their followers are a minuscule minority of Protestants as a whole. And many Protestants argue such preachers aren’t even Christian.

 

[Darryl_B]

There may seem like there’s a lot of it, but keep in mind that Prosperity preachers and their followers are a minuscule minority of Protestants as a whole. And many Protestants argue such preachers aren’t even Christian.

Those preachers seem to be able to travel around the world and fill stadiums. What exactly are people seeking that they swarm to hear what is virtually a non-existent message?

If possible forget the preachers, and try and understand the people. Why?