Protestant service last night.

[Stilldreamn]

Our Lutheran church is planning to do a combined Easter Vigil (Eucharist separately) with our neighboring Catholic and Episcopal Churches. We are located downtown, all of the congregations are at least 150 years old and we co-operate on other opportunities in our local service work.

I hope it doesn’t rain!

 

[richard_wang]

Our Lutheran church is planning to do a combined Easter Vigil (Eucharist separately) with our neighboring Catholic and Episcopal Churches. We are located downtown, all of the congregations are at least 150 years old and we co-operate on other opportunities in our local service work.

I hope it doesn’t rain!

Is this even licit?

Regardless of “eucharist separately”, it seems to be a violation of the instructions set forth by “Redemptionis Sacramentum” and the GIRM.

Wonder what the Congregation for Divine Worship would think about this?

 

[richard_wang]

Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are “caught up in this system”, and “the system isn’t going to save you”. “dont need a church, just a relationship”. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I wasn’t really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn’t take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn’t out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

I would not stand by while someone defames and insults mine or my friend’s wife, even out of respect for the one who brought me.

At the very least I would walk out on such a reprobate.

With his words, this pastor isn’t just insulting a mere gathering of people who have similar views. This pastor is insulting the spotless bride of Christ. (Revelations 19:7)

 

[JonNC]

Is this even licit?

Regardless of “eucharist separately”, it seems to be a violation of the instructions set forth by “Redemptionis Sacramentum” and the GIRM.

Wonder what the Congregation for Divine Worship would think about this?

My understanding is there is often non-Eucharistic services between Lutherans and Catholics. Usually it is Vespers, or Matins. Pope Benedict attended one a couple of years ago at the Lutheran Church in Rome.

Jon

 

[stewstew03]

We don’t actively target Roman Catholics (although you can’t know when you talk to someone on the street) in my area, but they still come walking in the door.

I’m not sure that’s true of all SBC churches, particularly those that sponsor missions (via NAMB) to other countries…

 

[fred_conty]

Ron Ovious,

I would write a respectful letter to him mentioning that you were invited to his service by a person belonging to his church. And during his talk he mentioned a few ideas that were misunderstood and mis-stated in his talk about the Catholic church.
Being a man of God and therefore for truth, I know you would be interested in the real understanding of these truths as taught by the Catholic church.

Then I would take one idea at a time and explain it. This may not convert him, but it does plant seeds of truth which take time.

Then end the letter by saying that you love him in Christ and hope for God’s goodness for him. Sometimes we forget that he is really our brother and may be thinking that he is doing God a favor by speaking against the church, just as St. Paul killed St Steven thinking he was doing God a favor.

If you can afford it, give him the book “Rome sweet home” by Hahn. He may just stick it on his library shelf, but someday when he is bored, he might just pick it up out of curiosity.

Just a thought.

 

[rinnie]

Interesting. My priest usually addressed the congregation before Mass and asks questions like…

How is everyone doing?

Is everyone ready to come to the Lord?

Has everyone been living out thier Faith this week? and then he says How?

Is everyone ready for the readings? Has everyone read them before Mass?

yes he asks.

that’s Great!! I bet it sure keeps them on their toes!!

 

[rinnie]

I would not stand by while someone defames and insults mine or my friend’s wife, even out of respect for the one who brought me.

At the very least I would walk out on such a reprobate.

With his words, this pastor isn’t just insulting a mere gathering of people who have similar views. This pastor is insulting the spotless bride of Christ. (Revelations 19:7)

I agree on a human level, but unfortunately we are taught to act out in a divine level.

Remember when one insults you, turn the other cheek. But it sure can be hard!

 

[jlhargus]

Actually that’s not totally true.
When I was in fundamentalism many moons ago Catholics were considered the hardest to ‘evangelize’ because they would be ‘regecting thier families.’
You know who are the easiest?
People who are getting a divorce. They are already at a crisis point in their life that can be easily exploited. I’ve seen it.

JL: Protestants, not mainline, I knew and know SEE Catholics as ingnorant of scripture and easy. I am not saying they ARE but are VIEWED as such.

 

[Roy5]

In this area the ‘nondenominational’ churches seem have attracted many Catholics. It’s a mystery to me as to why. I understand why ‘cafeteria Catholics’ - especially those who favor the marriage of priests, women priests, are more tolerant of gays, etc. - might be attracted to mainline Protestant churches like the Episcopalians or Methodists, but these nondenominational churches are hype-conservative on many issues as well.

 My inclination is to think that Catholics may be attracted by powerful and often emotional preaching, and many of these preachers are powerful and emotional. In addition many of these churches focus considerable attention on friendliness, home visits, other methods of follow-up.. Evangelism is key in their growth, and many Catholics are open to this because they already have fallen away.

 By the way, some of these 'nondenominational' churches are not really 'nondenominational'. At least two of them in this area are affiliated through their pastors to the Assemblies of God denomination. Calling themselves nondenominational is part of their PR strategy.

 

[MrZetterlund]

By the way, some of these ‘nondenominational’ churches are not really ‘nondenominational’. At least two of them in this area are affiliated through their pastors to the Assemblies of God denomination. Calling themselves nondenominational is part of their PR strategy.

If you’re “non-Denominational” then isn’t that your denomination? “Non-Denominational” is an oxymoron.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

 By the way, some of these 'nondenominational' churches are not really 'nondenominational'. At least two of them in this area are affiliated through their pastors to the Assemblies of God denomination. Calling themselves nondenominational is part of their PR strategy.

That’s for sure.

 

[JRRTFAN]

Fair enough. You went above and beyond the call of duty, in my opinion. Did it work?

Peace,

Armistace, unfortunately I am considered a deluded but harmless boob.

 

[JustaServant]

JL: Protestants, not mainline, I knew and know SEE Catholics as ingnorant of scripture and easy. I am not saying they ARE but are VIEWED as such.

I was really responding to Catholics being easy or hard to ‘evangelize’. I know they think we know nothing of Scripture.
I used to hear how the Bible was a ‘lost book’ until the Protestant Reformation.

 

[CopticChristian]

In this area the ‘nondenominational’ churches seem have attracted many Catholics. It’s a mystery to me as to why. I understand why ‘cafeteria Catholics’ - especially those who favor the marriage of priests, women priests, are more tolerant of gays, etc. - might be attracted to mainline Protestant churches like the Episcopalians or Methodists, but these nondenominational churches are hype-conservative on many issues as well.

** My inclination is to think that Catholics may be attracted by powerful and often emotional preaching, and many of these preachers are powerful and emotional. **In addition many of these churches focus considerable attention on friendliness, home visits, other methods of follow-up.. Evangelism is key in their growth, and many Catholics are open to this because they already have fallen away.

 By the way, some of these 'nondenominational' churches are not really 'nondenominational'. At least two of them in this area are affiliated through their pastors to the Assemblies of God denomination. Calling themselves nondenominational is part of their PR strategy.

I have attended too many Protestant Evangelical services and I find them to be remedial, boring and redundant not providing any new insights. I find them to be repetitive teaching their theology that others believe to be inspirational and new because they do not know that they are being taught Protestant theology. Once you know what the message is and you hear it over and over it gets old.

 

[Roy5]

CopticChristian

Your reaction is how many loyal Catholics would react to evangelical services. But obviously many others are drawn in because of dynamic and often very dogmatic preaching. Many young people also attracted by the music - usually live praise songs, easy to learn and sing - and by the spontaneity often exhibited. Personally, I am repelled by most of the well-known mega-church preachers and preaching, but they can draw huge crowds Sundays and at other times. Wish I could explain it myself. I presume in some situations there is an emotional response that many miss in more liturgical, traditional worship as well as a strongly expressed opposition to homosexuality, abortion, no prayer in public schools, and other such issues that incite many fundamentalist Protestants (along with many Catholics, although Catholics often hear much less about it from their pulpits). 

Catholics are drawn to mainline Protestant churches for very different reasons. One of them is theological freedom. Another is a liberal position in many of them on gay issues, even 'pro-choice' over 'pro-life'. They also may favor women priests, marriage of clergy, etc. - all part of modern mainline Protestantism..

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian

Your reaction is how many loyal Catholics would react to evangelical services. But obviously many others are drawn in because of dynamic and often very dogmatic preaching. Many young people also attracted by the music - usually live praise songs, easy to learn and sing - and by the spontaneity often exhibited. Personally, I am repelled by most of the well-known mega-church preachers and preaching, but they can draw huge crowds Sundays and at other times. Wish I could explain it myself. I presume in some situations there is an emotional response that many miss in more liturgical, traditional worship as well as a strongly expressed opposition to homosexuality, abortion, no prayer in public schools, and other such issues that incite many fundamentalist Protestants (along with many Catholics, although Catholics often hear much less about it from their pulpits). 

Catholics are drawn to mainline Protestant churches for very different reasons. One of them is theological freedom. Another is a liberal position in many of them on gay issues, even 'pro-choice' over 'pro-life'. They also may favor women priests, marriage of clergy, etc. - all part of modern mainline Protestantism..

My reaction???

I find preaching of those that insist on every time they cite a passage that uses the word “word” as the Bible ignorant and every time they cite “faith” it is me believing. It gets to be redundant and stupid.

Drawn for liberality???Wow only from you Roy.

 

[latingirl]

The Catholic Church is the false church of Thyatria??? Why didn’t someone tell Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Cyprian or Augustine this!!

Seriously, I cant believe people can become ordained pastors in some of these churches with the slipshod, careless and ignorant way they interpret Scripture,

 

[latingirl]

CopticChristian

Your reaction is how many loyal Catholics would react to evangelical services. But obviously many others are drawn in because of dynamic and often very dogmatic preaching. Many young people also attracted by the music - usually live praise songs, easy to learn and sing - and by the spontaneity often exhibited. Personally, I am repelled by most of the well-known mega-church preachers and preaching, but they can draw huge crowds Sundays and at other times. Wish I could explain it myself. I presume in some situations there is an emotional response that many miss in more liturgical, traditional worship as well as a strongly expressed opposition to homosexuality, abortion, no prayer in public schools, and other such issues that incite many fundamentalist Protestants (along with many Catholics, although Catholics often hear much less about it from their pulpits). 

Catholics are drawn to mainline Protestant churches for very different reasons. One of them is theological freedom. Another is a liberal position in many of them on gay issues, even 'pro-choice' over 'pro-life'. They also may favor women priests, marriage of clergy, etc. - all part of modern mainline Protestantism..

Thank you for sharing this insight with us and explaining some of what draws Catholics to Evangelical services. However these things cannot be said for all.

Take me for example.

I have more theological freedom and spirit of life in me that ever since I left Evangelical Protestantism for the Catholic Church. I have often been overcome with emotion at Catholic Masses. Understanding the beauty and gloriousness of what’s going on helps alot!! Morse what you have stated here are preferences. I like the fact that Catholicism says “This is the truth no matter how you feel.” We don’t serve God on our terms, we serve God on HIS.

by the way, chant and plainsong speaks to my soul WAY MORE than happy gospel music or rock-n-roll hymns.

I’ve got to say nothing quite fulfills that longing for the transcendent, the profound and ancient like Catholicism (or perhaps Orthodoxy)

 

[Maryann_C]

Does this particular church have a website with a sermon archive? I sure would love to hear the sermon in question, to get a better idea of what, exactly, was said.

Getting upset, of course, is quite natural in circumstances like this. Aside from experienced debaters or those who attend lectures, folks are not particularly used to being in atmospheres where their core beliefs are being challenged in a long presentation. In cases like this, where the speaker may be exceptionally insulated in his views, getting angry is rather easy.

Good advice. Honestly I think that unless one is a seasoned and well armored Catholic apologist going into such a Church is like walking into the lion’s den.

Sometimes the best friend we can be is to be the example that says “sorry I can not enter a Church Service where I know that the people hate all that I know and love to be true because if I did it would be as if i was saying I was in communion with them” This is also what I would have said as I got up and left. By remaining there you gave assent to what this pastor said.

Who is it who said something like ‘all that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’?

Jesus threw the money peddlers out of the temple court But they were selling things to be sacrificed to God!

There is a time and place for everything be ecumenical at a conference or at Lunch in discussions but not by attending another’s church. Would you enter a Hindu temple and listen /worship there if your friend was Hindu? Be a witness by standing firm in truth.