Protestant service last night.

[Diana_Catherine]

Let me reluctantly add a passing thought that has led me to some discomfort with Catholicism.

  Here was Jesus, who often had no place to lay his weary head, who preached against the ecclesiatical establishment with its severe legalisms and precise rituals, who walked dusty roads on hot days without any of the comforts that most people have (and even had then). Then I turn on EWTN and I see the Pope, a fine and learned man to be sure, in elaborate robes, leading mass in the massive Vatican and other ornate sanctuaries, being hailed by adoring crowds like a movie celebrity, surrounded by men in red hats. people bowing before him and kissing his ring. and I have to wonder - how can I somehow make the two pictures match? .

Since the early Church people have kissed the Popes ring. He is the representative of Christ on Earth and it shows respect to him, to the fact that he is the apostolic successor, our shepherd and knowing that he is the representative of Christ we are also showing our respect that Christ is our King.

I know, early Protestant iconoclasts were vile in their disregard for great art, etc. But there is something about a simple white New England church that can be very attractive. There is reverence in that simplicity. There is an absence of ostentatiousness. The minister, if he wears a robe, wears a plain one, maybe all black or all white, possibly with a simple stole. Am I wrong to find that attractive - and even wonder which one better symbolizes the Christ that we seek to follow? .

During the building of the tabernacle described in the Old Testament it was to look like the vision of heaven God had given Moses. It was built very elaborate and detailed. It is the same with the Catholic churches. They are made to be beautiful because they are representing the beauty of heaven. What you would find described in the book of Revelation. When walking in we are to feel we are leaving this world behind and entering into a heavenly place. There are some churches built more elaborate than others. I attend a very simple country Catholic church.

Also, when the pastor takes off that simple robe in a protestant church he goes home to many luxuries that priests and bishops do not have. Many priests take vows of poverty. They have very little and they don’t preach prosperity. Since I returned to the Catholic church I have not heard one sermon on prosperity but the turning away from materialism and caring for those who have not.

The Catholic vestments are meant to cover who the priest is and are to represent Jesus, who is the one they are representing to us during Mass.

I’ve decided that wherever one encounters Christ most fully is a place for the Christian to be. He/she may find inspiration in the huge cathedral or in the simple New England church, in a monastery garden or on a beach as the sun begins to rise (or set). The notion that there is one infallible church in all this, that this church alone knows the full splendor of truth - hm! yes, that is a problem for me. And isn’t God much too big to be contained in just one expression of faith? Maybe all the faiths combined don’t do justice to his glory and majesty??? Let us respect the different paths that pilgrims choose when they seek the Almighty as long as they reflect genuine love for God and for one another. It strikes me that Christ seemed to be saying that, as when the lawyer asked him how to inherit eternal life. His answer: the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Then you are saying we can all be our own popes. It is not about finding truth but about believing what we have decided is truth.

Another man asked what to do to inherit eternal life and Jesus told him: keep the commandments. He also said once that those who obey His words were like those who built their homes on a rock.

Speaking through the apostle Paul, Jesus said the Church was the pillar and foundation of truth. I Timothy 3:15

I can respect peoples decisions to travel different paths, I can respect protestants as our brothers and sisters in Christ and I can respect their seeking God and loving God but I can not just let them wander and seek and not say anything but instead out of love try to show them where to find truth. Kind of like a starving beggar who finds food, it would only be right to show my fellow starving beggars where the food is.

 

[latingirl]

//I can respect peoples decisions to travel different paths, I can respect protestants as our brothers and sisters in Christ and I can respect their seeking God and loving God but I can not just let them wander and seek and not say anything but instead out of love try to show them where to find truth. Kind of like a starving beggar who finds food, it would only be right to show my fellow starving beggars where the food is.//

I really admire this although I have given up on trying to tell Protestants where the good food is. All they do is mock me and get all the angrier. I once was dog-piled on a Christian forum for vaguely suggesting that they can experience God’s presence in the Eucharist. Yes it makes me sad that so many believe themselves each to be the infallible interpreters of God’s words and then do hundreds of contradictory things but some beggars just want to be left alone and wallow in their poverty.

God bless You Diana Catherine, you have courage!

 

[Maryann_C]

The whole point of WORSHIP is to focus on God in thanksgiving and adoration- that is what true Catholic mass does.
Sorry I think people leave the Catholic Church for 2 reasons only, I would suggest these are exactly the same reasons why Protestants routinely ‘Church shop’:

1. Ignorance of their own faith/truth- usually not their fault because of how they were raised by lax Catholic parents or if they were hurt by a priest.

2 Self service- “I don’t feel it meets my needs”, “I don’t agree with what they are teaching”, “the sermons do nothing for me/ don’t feed my soul/ quench my thirst” , " I think they should be doing this or that", " the music is boring" etc…it is all the same .

 

[andrewstx]

Ecclesiacstical legalism is not exactly what Christ preached against, it was that legalism without knowing the reason for it! It was doing all these things and not being close to God. You should really research the history of early Christianity. They had quite the liturgy and church laws. You might forget that Catholicism came right from Judaism and has alot of carry over.

Kissing the pope’s ring, seriously. He doesn’t force people to do it. It is done out of respect much like bowing is done out of respect in China. The crowds? ummm. Paul and Peter were greeted with adoring crowds and so was Jesus!!

You are aware that the Catholic Church while having all these nice things is still the largest charity in the world and feeds and educates more people than any charity in the world.

I’m sorry but complaining that the pope and vatican have nice things is a very materialistic way of looking at things. We should be looking at the soul, what these bishops do spiritually instead of judging them by what they wear. Jesus also tells us not to judge by appearances but right judgement.

plus if you really think Protestantism is a simple religion you need to take a look at the myriads of pastors who conduct church in fine suite and drive fancy cars and who have rolex watches! Their churches have huge screens and expensive lighting systems and despite that- they do not even produce as much charity as the Catholic Church does daily.

The pope has no salary and no bank account. None of what he wears and uses is his own. If you have noticed, he wears alot of the same vestments that the previous pope wore and they even say it sometimes on tv that his clothes belong to pope so-and-so.

I’m sorry, to be uncomfortable about the Catholic Church because of its wealth and cultural customs is very shallow. It just looks like a list of excuses and human preferences to me.

People who have been fed and clothes and had their lives changed by this church such as me, (I was very poor and the Catholic Church helped me) truly know the Catholic Church’s wealth is spiritual. It is wisdom and music and prayer. If that fancy stuff is distracting you and causing an outrage in your soul, maybe you need to examine your soul. If things are what is keeping you from the Catholic Church. things! yes, you need to examine yourself.

I was raised and converted from an fundamental/evangelical church. They worshipped in a large but very plain cinder block church. But they made it plain that they worshipped in a “building” and the church was the members. Their place was cold in the winter and hot in summer.

Maybe you’d think this would indicate they preffered a simple life style and way of being, but you would be very wrong.

Their houses called pretentiously “homes” were very luxurioius.

While they gave God a plain cheap house, themselves they lived in mc-mansions with wall to wall exspensive carpet, 3 and 4 car garages for their gas gulping pick-ups and suvs. And of course freezing in summer and blazing in the winter.

I think many evangelicals are cheap with God, and generous with themselves, and no-one else, they always vote to be skimpy with the poor and ill, always.

 

[ZoeyBdo]

I was raised and converted from an fundamental/evangelical church. They worshipped in a large but very plain cinder block church. But they made it plain that they worshipped in a “building” and the church was the members. Their place was cold in the winter and hot in summer.

Maybe you’d think this would indicate they preffered a simple life style and way of being, but you would be very wrong.

Their houses called pretentiously “homes” were very luxurioius.

While they gave God a plain cheap house, themselves they lived in mc-mansions with wall to wall exspensive carpet, 3 and 4 car garages for their gas gulping pick-ups and suvs. And of course freezing in summer and blazing in the winter.

I think many evangelicals are cheap with God, and generous with themselves, and no-one else, they always vote to be skimpy with the poor and ill, always.

Per my grandmother, the most devout Catholic I ever knew (bless her soul in heaven):

1. you pay God
2. you pay yourself 10%
3. you pay your bills

 

[JRRTFAN]

Let me reluctantly add a passing thought that has led me to some discomfort with Catholicism.

  Here was Jesus, who often had no place to lay his weary head, who preached against the ecclesiatical establishment with its severe legalisms and precise rituals, who walked dusty roads on hot days without any of the comforts that most people have (and even had then). Then I turn on EWTN and I see the Pope, a fine and learned man to be sure, in elaborate robes, leading mass in the massive Vatican and other ornate sanctuaries, being hailed by adoring crowds like a movie celebrity, surrounded by men in red hats. people bowing before him and kissing his ring. and I have to wonder - how can I somehow make the two pictures match? 

  I know, early Protestant iconoclasts were vile in their disregard for great art, etc. But there is something about a simple white New England church that can be very attractive. There is reverence in that simplicity. There is an absence of ostentatiousness. The minister, if he wears a robe, wears a plain one, maybe all black or all white, possibly with a simple stole. Am I wrong to find that attractive - and even wonder which one better symbolizes the Christ that we seek to follow? 

   I've decided that wherever one encounters Christ most fully is a place for the Christian to be. He/she may find inspiration in the huge cathedral or in the simple New England church, in a monastery garden or on a beach as the sun begins to rise (or set). The notion that there is one infallible church in all this, that this church alone knows the full splendor of truth - hm! yes, that is a problem for me. And isn't God much too big to be contained in just one expression of faith? Maybe all the faiths combined don't do justice to his glory and majesty???  Let us respect the different paths that pilgrims choose when they seek the Almighty as long as they reflect genuine love for God and for one another. It strikes me that Christ seemed to be saying that, as when the lawyer asked him how to inherit eternal life. His answer: the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Indeed, however, being inside a tube of chalk has never been inspiring to me. The Churches of the middle ages used colored stained windows to tell stories the people could not read.

WHat you have to realize, not agree with but realize, is that we believe the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity is reposed in our tabernacles. If you believe that, you don’t scour the building of beauty, you attempt to maximize it. Study the tabernacle specifications of Exodus and the Ark of the Covenant construction requirements in Exodus. God does not think He should dwell in the minimal a man can devise for Him. But, of course, all that is conditioned on the Real Presence. If, that’s false I’m with you a tent is just fine, although I do like A/C in summer.

 

[AbideWithMe]

  I know, early Protestant iconoclasts were vile in their disregard for great art, etc. But there is something about a simple white New England church that can be very attractive. There is reverence in that simplicity. There is an absence of ostentatiousness. The minister, if he wears a robe, wears a plain one, maybe all black or all white, possibly with a simple stole. Am I wrong to find that attractive - and even wonder which one better symbolizes the Christ that we seek to follow? [end quote]

I think, too, that some of the most simple churches are very beautiful and reverent. The Trappist monk Thomas Merton wrote something to the effect that “the peculiar grace of a Shaker chair is due to the fact that it was made by someone capable of believing that an angel might come by and sit in it”. With their simplicity of design, humble attention to detail that few may notice, and appreciation of their materials, some of the “plainest” religious furnishings and architecture can be another reflection of a facet of God’s character.

Then, too, extravagance and luxurious color is God’s invention, as well. So He’s also reflected in ornate cathedrals.

As for me, I’ll take a soaring forest or mountain overlook over any building. I almost always feel my heart lift when stepping out into the open compared to even the most glorious, high-ceilinged cathedral. A sense of transendence and worship of something bigger and higher than ourselves is partly induced in me by cathedrals, but even more so by nature.

Then again, God compares Himself, for our benefit, to shelter, warmth, protection, and “the shadow of a great rock in a dry and weary land”; so a small home-like, low-roofed church can reflect a facet of Him, too.

 

[mitex]

Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are “caught up in this system”, and “the system isn’t going to save you”. “dont need a church, just a relationship”. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I wasn’t really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn’t take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn’t out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

I’d like to add that this isn’t universal in all protestant churches. This is a minority of fringe fundamentalist sects. Don’t worry most protestants have no hard feelings towards Catholics!

 

[peace2u2]

Don’t worry most protestants have no hard feelings towards Catholics!

Brethren - Don’t worry most Catholic Christians have no hard feelings towards Protestants!

Peace to you!

 

[peace2u2]

Roy5;9129599:

Then, too, extravagance and luxurious color is God’s invention, as well. So He’s also reflected in ornate cathedrals.

True. Spending money to honor God is money well spent. And these ornate cathedrals benefit the poor who come to worship God in them.

Funny, today people don’t bat an eye on the spending of millions of dollars to build sports arenas or rock concert arenas, but complain when money is spent to honor God or complain when the collection is taken up on Sunday, yet drop 100’s of dollars to see rock musicians and sports athletes who lead less than desireable lifestyles. Why is that?

Jesus defends honoring God with our material possessions like when the woman anointed Jesus’ head with expensive perfume. Judas was especially upset. Who defended her? Jesus did. And, shortly after, Judas went off to betray Jesus.

It seems to me that the people who complain most about expensive churches are usually not poor materially, but quite poor spiritually.

 

[Roy5]

Just one little note in response to a point made. The point was that Protestants are selfish when they come to their church but spend freely on themselves.

I've seen studies/surveys indicating that Protestants, on average, give roughly twice as much per capita to their churches as Catholics do. As for charity Catholicism does very well. So do Protestants. I know that Catholic Charities receives millions in government funding - our tax dollars. No objection from me. The ones I really have admired over the years have been those dedicated priests and nuns who go into very tough situations, here and overseas, live humbly, and devote their lives to serving the poor and disadvantaged.

 One encouraging note, of course. Since Vatican II, Catholics, Protestants and others have together run thousands of soup kitchens, shelters, food banks and other community projects. I'm sure Christ is not interested in the church ties of donors and volunteers. See those final verses of Matt. 25.

 

[BouncingBall]

Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are “caught up in this system”, and “the system isn’t going to save you”. “dont need a church, just a relationship”. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I wasn’t really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn’t take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn’t out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

Ron, this exact same thing happened to me last night at a non-denom church. I went with my friend’s mom because she invited me. The church is in a converted theater. The Cross is not readily visible; it’s waaaaaaaaay up by the ceiling where no one can see it; the view of it is blocked by sound system equipment, ironically. Friend’s mom invited me to watch this church’s version of a Passion Play. It was OK, though the ending was powerful. So then the minister walks out on stage after the end of the play and does a sermon and an altar call. No problem there… until he said that “Catholicism doesn’t save you”; then I got a headache. Ironically he said that Protestantism doesn’t save you either; the punchline is that, by definition, his church is protestant because he just protested against Catholicism! LOL. Later in the sermon he said something theologically bad about priests and my headache grew. Like the OP, I wanted to walk out but I think honoring our elders is a commandment bigger than my strong dislike of this man’s preaching.

After the service, I told friend’s mom (respectfully, as she is my friend’s Mom) to never bring me to her church again. And I also told her (respectfully, as she is my friend’s Mom) that the Church I belong to doesn’t have to diss other faiths in order to gain new members. A bit of bottom-feeding, there, really, by this minister. Another subtle tactic the minister used in the sermon was to call Apostle Paul, “Saint” Paul. This was not to honor Paul as a saint but to get lax Catholics to join his church.

During the part where the people at the altar call profess their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, I did not pray along. What for? I’d gone to confession and communicated at daily Mass that morning. Maybe I should have; Jesus is my Lord and Savior after all.

Very odd; after the Whitney Houston televised funeral, I felt uplifted. After last night’s debacle, I feel like I need a bath in a vat of holy water. And like the OP, I am now in desperate need of Adoration.

 

[CopticChristian]

Just one little note in response to a point made. **The point was **that Protestants are selfish when they come to their church but spend freely on themselves.

I've seen studies/surveys indicating that Protestants, on average, give roughly twice as much per capita to their churches as Catholics do. As for charity Catholicism does very well. So do Protestants. I know that Catholic Charities receives millions in government funding - our tax dollars. No objection from me. The ones I really have admired over the years have been those dedicated priests and nuns who go into very tough situations, here and overseas, live humbly, and devote their lives to serving the poor and disadvantaged.

 One encouraging note, of course. Since Vatican II, Catholics, Protestants and others have together run thousands of soup kitchens, shelters, food banks and other community projects. I'm sure Christ is not interested in the church ties of donors and volunteers. See those final verses of Matt. 25.

Roy,

These are not points. These are opinions. Whoever registered that opinion based on a limited expereince and has as much value as your opinion.

It is just an opinion.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

. The ones I really have admired over the years have been those dedicated priests and nuns who go into very tough situations, here and overseas, live humbly, and devote their lives to serving the poor and disadvantaged…

I admire them too.

. One encouraging note, of course. Since Vatican II, Catholics, Protestants and others have together run thousands of soup kitchens, shelters, food banks and other community projects…

I just wanted to note on this that these things started long before Vatican II.

I’m sure Christ is not interested in the church ties of donors and volunteers. See those final verses of Matt. 25.

I like the end of Matthew 25 also. It reminds us that it not just our faith that will bring about our salvation but our works, too, but we still need God to guide us in those important Bible verses and that is where our church ties do matter as there are many christians who have different interpretations of those passages. So, you want to be sure to have a correct understanding of scripture. That is how the Catholic church helps us.

 

[Roy5]

I admire them too.

I just wanted to note on this that these things started long before Vatican II.

I like the end of Matthew 25 also. It reminds us that it not just our faith that will bring about our salvation but our works, too, but we still need God to guide us in those important Bible verses and that is where our church ties do matter as there are many christians who have different interpretations of those passages. So, you want to be sure to have a correct understanding of scripture. That is how the Catholic church helps us.

 I am old enough to remember 'before Vatican II'. Catholics were told that it was a serious sin to attend a Protestant church. There was little if any cooperation between Protestants and Catholics. Since I have a mixed Catholic and Protestant heritage I recall baptisms, weddings and funerals that had to be skipped because they were in the wrong church. Even  during the early stages of the civil rights movements, Catholic priests (apart from the Berrigans) kept a distance because they were not supposed to associate with Protestants. Clergy associations had existed for years, but no priests joined until after Vatican II. Etc., etc. Now I was quite young, but I don't recall any soup kitchens or food banks sponsored jointly by Catholics and Protestants. Possibly a few existed? But I do recall the clear Catholic edict against ecumenical relationships with Protestants.

  Then, it must have been 1963, during Vatican II - wow! almost overnight we began to have ecumenical services, Catholic priests joined clergy groups, etc. Suddenly it was no longer a sin to worship in a Protestant church, attend a Protestant baptism or wedding, and Protestants no longer were heretics but 'separated brothers and sisters'. Clergy even began to have 'ecumenical' wedding ceremonies which was a total change from the past. Before that, as I recall, a Catholic priest could officiate at a Catholic-Protestant wedding only in the rectory and not in the Church. The Protestant had to sign an agreement to bring up the children in the Catholic faith. Etc.

  It is important to present correctly the situation prior to Vatican II,

 

[andrewstx]

Just one little note in response to a point made. The point was that Protestants are selfish when they come to their church but spend freely on themselves.

I've seen studies/surveys indicating that Protestants, on average, give roughly twice as much per capita to their churches as Catholics do. As for charity Catholicism does very well. So do Protestants. I know that Catholic Charities receives millions in government funding - our tax dollars. No objection from me. The ones I really have admired over the years have been those dedicated priests and nuns who go into very tough situations, here and overseas, live humbly, and devote their lives to serving the poor and disadvantaged.

 One encouraging note, of course. Since Vatican II, Catholics, Protestants and others have together run thousands of soup kitchens, shelters, food banks and other community projects. I'm sure Christ is not interested in the church ties of donors and volunteers. See those final verses of Matt. 25.

I was speaking about the “church of Christ” the fundamentalist denomination I was raised in, and every word was true. This denomination exists mostly in the south and south-west.

And they are very self-centered, selfish even. They have no soup kitchens or food banks. What little assistance they give is to members of their own sect, only. And they do live in mcmansions and drive huge gas guzzlers. And their churches (buildings) are very plain, cheaply built, and spartan. They also tend to be very conservative politically.

I am aware that other Protestants are often more generous with their funds,esp Pentecostals. I’m not sure what they do with the money. Besides soup kitchens and aid to the poor. A lot goes for sound systems and band instuments, and to fund missionaries/proselytizers to convert people who are already Christians. A waste to me.

All in all different people have different priorities, and that is fine by me.

 

[Roy5]

I was speaking about the “church of Christ” the fundamentalist denomination I was raised in, and every word was true. This denomination exists mostly in the south and south-west.

And they are very self-centered, selfish even. They have no soup kitchens or food banks. What little assistance they give is to members of their own sect, only. And they do live in mcmansions and drive huge gas guzzlers. And their churches (buildings) are very plain, cheaply built, and spartan. They also tend to be very conservative politically.

I am aware that other Protestants are often more generous with their funds,esp Pentecostals. I’m not sure what they do with the money. Besides soup kitchens and aid to the poor. A lot goes for sound systems and band instuments, and to fund missionaries/proselytizers to convert people who are already Christians. A waste to me.

All in all different people have different priorities, and that is fine by me.

 I am aware of the Church (or Churches) of Christ, though few of its congregations are in this area - the northeast. As I recall this church developed out of the so-called Campbellites who also created the Disciples of Christ (also known as the Christian Church). Some of my kinfolk headed to the midwest 100 and more years ago and ended up in the Disciples of Christ denomination. Ironically, Campbell sought to unite Christians, but succeeded in forming new ones instead!

 The Church of Christ, as I understand it, preaches much of what traditional Catholicism preached before Vatican II. There is only one true church, and we are it. I recall a Church of Christ preacher on the radio years ago who said in effect the Church of Christ is like Noah's Ark - get on board or you're doomed. 

  It just happened that many years ago, too, as a collge student in Italy, I visited a Church of Christ missionary endeavor in Frascati, Italy. The mission was sponsored by a large congregation in Texas - I forget its name. Highland Avenue, maybe?  The men wore those ten-gallon hats familiar in Texas but rather odd in Italy. Frankly, I was not all that impressed. My guess is that much of their money may go for missions of that nature. They probably would argue that nothing is more important than saving souls and getting them into heaven? By the way, the only time I ever used Latin as part of a conversation was in Frascati. I was trying to find the mission, saw a priest, asked directions in my 'best Latin' (fairly good back then), and he responded in kind! He also was kind to tell me, since I was looking for a 'Protestant' mission. Does the Church of Christ call itself Protestant? I don't believe it has anything to do with other Protestant groups since it claims to be the one and only true church.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I am old enough to remember ‘before Vatican II’. Catholics were told that it was a serious sin to attend a Protestant church. There was little if any cooperation between Protestants and Catholics. Since I have a mixed Catholic and Protestant heritage I recall baptisms, weddings and funerals that had to be skipped because they were in the wrong church. Even during the early stages of the civil rights movements, Catholic priests (apart from the Berrigans) kept a distance because they were not supposed to associate with Protestants. Clergy associations had existed for years, but no priests joined until after Vatican II. Etc., etc. Now I was quite young, but I don’t recall any soup kitchens or food banks sponsored jointly by Catholics and Protestants. Possibly a few existed? But I do recall the clear Catholic edict against ecumenical relationships with Protestants.

  Then, it must have been 1963, during Vatican II - wow! almost overnight we began to have ecumenical services, Catholic priests joined clergy groups, etc. Suddenly it was no longer a sin to worship in a Protestant church, attend a Protestant baptism or wedding, and Protestants no longer were heretics but 'separated brothers and sisters'. Clergy even began to have 'ecumenical' wedding ceremonies which was a total change from the past. Before that, as I recall, a Catholic priest could officiate at a Catholic-Protestant wedding only in the rectory and not in the Church. The Protestant had to sign an agreement to bring up the children in the Catholic faith. Etc.

  It is important to present correctly the situation prior to Vatican II,

Sorry, my bad. I didn’t catch the word “together” in your previous post and didn’t realize you were talking about these things being done as an ecumenical service. I agree, then. You probably would not have found that happening prior to Vatican II.

 

[andrewstx]

I am aware of the Church (or Churches) of Christ, though few of its congregations are in this area - the northeast. As I recall this church developed out of the so-called Campbellites who also created the Disciples of Christ (also known as the Christian Church). Some of my kinfolk headed to the midwest 100 and more years ago and ended up in the Disciples of Christ denomination. Ironically, Campbell sought to unite Christians, but succeeded in forming new ones instead!

 The Church of Christ, as I understand it, preaches much of what traditional Catholicism preached before Vatican II. There is only one true church, and we are it. I recall a Church of Christ preacher on the radio years ago who said in effect the Church of Christ is like Noah's Ark - get on board or you're doomed. 

  It just happened that many years ago, too, as a collge student in Italy, I visited a Church of Christ missionary endeavor in Frascati, Italy. The mission was sponsored by a large congregation in Texas - I forget its name. Highland Avenue, maybe?  The men wore those ten-gallon hats familiar in Texas but rather odd in Italy. Frankly, I was not all that impressed. My guess is that much of their money may go for missions of that nature. They probably would argue that nothing is more important than saving souls and getting them into heaven? By the way, the only time I ever used Latin as part of a conversation was in Frascati. I was trying to find the mission, saw a priest, asked directions in my 'best Latin' (fairly good back then), and he responded in kind! He also was kind to tell me, since I was looking for a 'Protestant' mission. Does the Church of Christ call itself Protestant? I don't believe it has anything to do with other Protestant groups since it claims to be the one and only true church.

It was probably Highland cofChrist in Abilene, a huge congo that I visited in my “mispent youth”.

Non the “church of Christ” does not call themselves Protestant, They claim to be the only Christians,and that is the only name they call themselves by.

It gets confusing trying to tell the different “just Christians” apart.

I think it is/was a total waste proselytizing people who are already Christians and have been Christians for millenia. The “church of Christ” was started in 1906 by dissadent members of the Disciples of Christ. The huge difference is the Disciples claim to be Christians only, while the cofC claims to be the only Christians.

I have bitter memories of the cofC, when Ieft that sect I was disowned, booted from the family and told I “had left Christ and his Church”.

To say the least they are not ecumenical.

 

[Roy5]

andrewtx

Wow! Quite a jump from a Church of Christ to Eastern Orthodoxy. Yes, now that you mention it, I believe it was a church in Abilene, maybe Highland Park CofC? They once had a weekly radio broadcast that I sometimes would hear. "Herald of Truth" possibly? Too long ago to have a clear memory of what it was called.

 I am somewhat acquainted with the Orthodox Church (Antioch branch) in that years ago, when i was writing a book dealing with different faiths, I had a depth conversation with a priest in Brooklyn of that group, as I recall, I'm not up to date on how it's faring. I come from a mixed Catholic-Protestant heritage - French Canadian and Yankee Puritan antecedents - and have tended toward mainline Protestantism. Why? I possess an inquisitive mind, apparently, and seem discontent with insistence upon a precise set of doctrines and liturgies. My awe before God and God's creation is such that I doubt if the human mind has anywhere near the ability to comprehend it all. Fine. I'm willing to wait until the life to come, which I accept - though without pretending to know what and where that life is likely to be. As the scriptures say, I'm content to walk by faith and not by sight.

 Two of my hurdles. (1) The Bible. So much of it leaves me skeptical. Did God really command Joshua to slaughter everyone in Jericho except for a collaborator-prostitute and her family? Did Jesus really put a 'legion' (2000?) demons into pigs which then raced down a cliff to drown in a lake? What about Paul's statements that slaves should obey their masters and women should keep silent in the church? Etc. (2) The Church Fathers. I read them meticulously and for their era they had considerable wisdom. But because of when they wrote they included much superstition, false information, and confused commentary. Some churches hold them up as authorities. I found them interesting but seriously flawed.

 On the other hand, I respect the various traditions that differ from my own perspective. I do have trouble, however, with any church, whether the CofC or the RCC which insist that it alone embraces and teaches the fullness of truth.

  A blessed Easter. Do you celebrate it on April 8 or April 15? My doctor is Coptic and for him it's April 15. I realize that Coptic Orthodoxy differs a mite from most other Orthodox bodies.