Protestant service ok to attend?

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palmas85:
If you enjoy Protestant services that is your business. Attend them all you want to. I don’t attend them because I don’t believe that they offer the truth that the Catholic Church does. I am sure your family does love the Lord and are good people.But that does not make their beliefs right and does not assure their salvation.

I sincerely doubt that truly Orthodox Catholics spend much time in Protestant services, since many Protestants don’t even consider Catholics to be Christians.

I am not surprised in your case though as many Charismatic Catholics actually seem to prefer Protestant or Protetsant style services, although I don’t really understand why. The whole Charismatic Catholic thing is a relatively recent innovation,and from everything I have read on it seems to be in a relatively stagnant state now after having very good growth through the 80’s and early 90’s.
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First of all, my family is dead. They either have their salvation or don’t. I have no fear of their love for the Lord. I have no fear of the Lords love for them.

I happen to be a very Orthodox Catholic. I didn’t say I spent a lot of time in non Catholic Churches but I did say I enjoy them. I also enjoy Protestant Christians. You may have had problems with them questioning your Christianity but I haven’t. Maybe some of our Doctrines but I spend time explaining them, with pretty good success.

You are dead wrong about the Charismatic Renewal, but then you only said you had HEARD IT.

I attened Protestant services, long before I became Charismatic. I told you I am very Orthodox.
The Charismatic Renewal is alive and well and indeed thriving.
I have been in leadership for a good many years and tell you that from first hand knowledge.
 
I personally dont, I have friends that arent Catholic that invite me to but I tell them no. I respect their beliefs as they do mine but it just doesnt feel right for me to be in any other Church but the Holy Catholic Church that Jesus Christ founded.
 
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robertaf:
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You are dead wrong about the Charismatic Renewal, but then you only said you had HEARD IT.

attened PrI otestant services, long before I became Charismatic. I told you I am very Orthodox.
The Charismatic Renewal is alive and well and indeed thriving.
I have been in leadership for a good many years and tell you that from first hand knowledge.
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All the documentation I could find including that from charismatic groups would indicate otherwise. I actually read quite a bit about it including two dissertations on the subject before even posting about it. Very enlightening indeed. Apparently the whole thing started when several Catholics on, was it a retreat of some sort? , asked that a Protestant minister lay hands on them so that they could receive the blessings of the Holy Spirit. A very strange situation indeed. That was in the late 60’s was it not? Not a real long time ago by any stretch of the imagination.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Charismatic prayer groups, sessions, services whatever you call them do more closely approximate Protestant Services than a Mass don’t they? If not where do you fit in the Charismatic aspects? I attended, many years ago, several evangelical pentecostal protestant services and I really don’t see how those type of activities would fit into the Mass without altering it a geat deal.

I meant no disrespect to your family at all and hope that you did not think that I did.
 
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bear06:
You’ve just described all sinners whether Catholic or protestant. So, who are you going to say we shouldn’t pray with or attend a worship service next? It would seem if you follow your line of thinking, we shouldn’t be attending Mass with some Catholics either.

True many Catholics who attend Mass probably are in a state of sin, all of us have been at one time or another. And also true, especially these days many many Catholics reject either partially or totally the doctrine and teachings of the Church.

The problem is with them unless they stand up and admit it you would not know. With Protestants, the simple fact they are Protestants proves it beyond any shadow of a doubt.
 
I certainly believe mere attendance as a guest and sharing in common prayer is far different from “participation," which is how I understood Peter Howard’s position.

I happen to be the “David” that asked Peter Howard the original question and started all this controversy. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

You can read my original question and his answer on the diocesan web page, here:

Participation in Protestant Services
http://www.diocs.org/Q&A/answers.cfm?question=15protestantservices

I asked a follow-up question and received his clarification, which can also be read here:

Participation in Protestant Services - Part II
http://www.diocs.org/Q&A/answers.cfm?question=18protestantservices2

The controvery began much later, when Peter Howard placed an editorialized version of the first Q&A into the diocesan newspaper, the Catholic Herald. The Herald article by Peter Howard can be read here:

Why Not Attend New Life?
by Peter Howard, STL
October 7, 2005
http://www.diocs.org/CPC/Corner/articles_view.cfm?year=2005&month=October

In the subsequent issue of the Catholic Herald, there was a letter to the editor from a parish priest within the diocese, expressing disagreement with Peter Howard’s article. Peter Howard’s response to that letter can be read here:

**Response to Letter to Editor Re: “Why not attend ‘New Life’” **
by Peter Howard, STL
October 21, 2005
http://www.diocs.org/CPC/Corner/articles_view.cfm?year=2005&month=October1

I don’t know what was stated in the Gazette interview by Peter Howard, nor do I have Bishop Sheridan’s subsequent letter of apology.

However, what Peter Howard stated here seems clear and orthodox to me:

“… one must be well grounded and formed in one’s own Catholic faith before trying to make efforts to bringing others into full communion…a Catholic could engage himself in common prayers shared between the Catholic Faith and a Protestant faith as long as what he intends in his mind and heart are what the Catholic Church intends (i.e. interpretation of Scripture, etc.)…What my point is in all of this is that as Catholics, we must be very careful in making sure that all of our public actions (especially regarding prayer and liturgy) that we fully intend in mind, heart, and will to believe and do what the Catholic Church intends. That being said, Catholics are also obliged to make sure that what they say and do in public prayer/liturgical settings of non-Catholics does not give off any impression that what they are attending/ participating in is equal to what the Catholic Church believes in matters of liturgical prayer and doctrine. This is why the saying coined by Pope Paul VI is so important – “Lex orandi lex credendi” – translated as “as the Church prays, so it believes”. This is the litmus test for all our public prayer with Protestants, so as to avoid confusion.”
(http://www.diocs.org/Q&A/answers.cfm?question=18protestantservices2)

I’ve written Bishop Sheridan and requested his clarification on the matter.

I want to add that I believe it has been a real blessing to have Peter Howard on our diocesan staff.
 
True many Catholics who attend Mass probably are in a state of sin, all of us have been at one time or another. And also true, especially these days many many Catholics reject either partially or totally the doctrine and teachings of the Church.
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The problem is with them unless they stand up and admit it you would not know. With Protestants, the simple fact they are Protestants proves it beyond any shadow of a doubt.
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So, once a person admits that they are a sinner beyond a shadow of a doubt, we no longer pray with them? How about Fulton Sheen?
 
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bear06:
So, once a person admits that they are a sinner beyond a shadow of a doubt, we no longer pray with them? How about Fulton Sheen?

Where are you gettung this from? I just said I won’t go to Protestant services to worship. Thats really it. I am not a Protestant. I’m sorry if that offends you. I think that ecumenical dialogue should be just that dialogue, not joint worship services.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
I certainly believe mere attendance as a guest and sharing in common prayer is far different from “participation," which is how I understood Peter Howard’s position.

I happen to be the “David” that asked Peter Howard the original question and started all this controversy. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

You can read my original question and his answer on the diocesan web page, here:

Participation in Protestant Services
http://www.diocs.org/Q&A/answers.cfm?question=15protestantservices

I asked a follow-up question and received his clarification, which can also be read here:

Participation in Protestant Services - Part II
http://www.diocs.org/Q&A/answers.cfm?question=18protestantservices2

The controvery began much later, when Peter Howard placed an editorialized version of the first Q&A into the diocesan newspaper, the Catholic Herald. The Herald article by Peter Howard can be read here:

Why Not Attend New Life?
by Peter Howard, STL
October 7, 2005
http://www.diocs.org/CPC/Corner/articles_view.cfm?year=2005&month=October

In the subsequent issue of the Catholic Herald, there was a letter to the editor from a parish priest within the diocese, expressing disagreement with Peter Howard’s article. Peter Howard’s response to that letter can be read here:

**Response to Letter to Editor Re: “Why not attend ‘New Life’” **
by Peter Howard, STL
October 21, 2005
http://www.diocs.org/CPC/Corner/articles_view.cfm?year=2005&month=October1

I don’t know what was stated in the Gazette interview by Peter Howard, nor do I have Bishop Sheridan’s subsequent letter of apology.

However, what Peter Howard stated here seems clear and orthodox to me:

I’ve written Bishop Sheridan and requested his clarification on the matter.

I want to add that I believe it has been a real blessing to have Peter Howard on our diocesan staff.
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This statement makes a lot of sense to me and says things better than I could have.
 
Peter Howard STL directly misrepresents the promises a non-Catholic makes when in a mixed marriage. Those rules changed c. 1970 so for him to say the non-Catholic PROMISES to raise the kids 100% Catholic is just wrong. Mistatken at best or an outright lie. If he is so clearly wrong on that are his other “facts” suspect? I say probably so.
 
First, Palmas, I must be missing something here because we are both seemingly agreeing with the statement by Howard. How can this be if you don’t think that one should ever participate in a protestant service?
a Catholic could engage himself in common prayers shared between the Catholic Faith and a Protestant faith as long as what he intends in his mind and heart are what the Catholic Church intends (i.e. interpretation of Scripture, etc.)…What my point is in all of this is that as Catholics, we must be very careful in making sure that all of our public actions (especially regarding prayer and liturgy) that we fully intend in mind, heart, and will to believe and do what the Catholic Church intends.
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Secondly, Geneologist, you are correct in this techinicality. That said, for the permission to marry a non-Catholic to be given, it is supposed to be forseen that the non-Catholic will not undermine the faith of the Catholic. How often does that happen? :mad:

Here’s a good article on the subject:
jimmyakin.org/2005/06/marriage_to_ant.html
 
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bear06:
First, Palmas, I must be missing something here because we are both seemingly agreeing with the statement by Howard. How can this be if you don’t think that one should ever participate in a protestant service?
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I think the difference is that attending a Protestant Service with the intent of worshiping in their manner is wrong. I certainly have no objection to praying with anyone on an individual basis, as long as I am praying with the clear intent of Catholic prayer. Praying on an individual personal basis is a totally different thing than actively participating in Protestant services.

However, in attending a service and participating in Protestant activities, I think opens the wrong door so to speak. I faced this situation in the military often as well as with the various Police chaplains that I have known. Good men by and large and deeply religious in their own ways, but usually not Catholic, and thus they did not for lack of a better word preach in a Catholic fashion or to Catholic beliefs which often are not the same as Protestants.

While very true there are striking similarities as there should be, there are also tremendous differences that we cannot ignore if we want to maintain the integrity of the Catholic faith
 
Let me ask you this again because we might have been in agreement the whole time… Would you have a problem attending a pray service in a protestant church for the end of abortion?
 
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genealogist:
Peter Howard STL directly misrepresents the promises a non-Catholic makes when in a mixed marriage. Those rules changed c. 1970 so for him to say the non-Catholic PROMISES to raise the kids 100% Catholic is just wrong. Mistatken at best or an outright lie. If he is so clearly wrong on that are his other “facts” suspect? I say probably so.
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It was a mistake. He meant “Catholic” member must promise.
 
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genealogist:
Peter Howard STL directly misrepresents the promises a non-Catholic makes when in a mixed marriage. Those rules changed c. 1970 so for him to say the non-Catholic PROMISES to raise the kids 100% Catholic is just wrong. Mistatken at best or an outright lie. If he is so clearly wrong on that are his other “facts” suspect? I say probably so.
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What other facts are suspect? Can you cite the source? I’ve reviewed his reply and find nothing contradictory in any magisterial text, when understood as he intended. Now, it may have not been the best word choice, which is why there’s such a stir in my diocese. However, I found it orthodox.

What I did find in my studies is with regard to participation (not mere attendance) in other services which are not in full communion with the Church and constitute a source of grave scandal and division in the Church …

From the Pontifical Congregation of Bishops, in a response to a request for clarification regarding status of the followers of Monsignor Lefebvre, dated October 31, 1996:

*“Participation in their [Society of St. Pius X (SSPX)] services is **objectively illicit *because they are not performed in full communion with the Church, and because they are a source of grave scandal and division in the ecclesial community.” If participation at a Catholic SSPX Mass is “objectively illicit” because of lack of “full communion” and because they are a source of “scandal and division” within the Church, then how can participation in a Protestant service be objectively licit?
 
Now, Paul attended Jewish services, right? However, as a Christian, he went to teach them, to evangelize, to bring the lost sheep home.

I think it is perfectly fine, if one is well-formed in the Catholic faith, to reach out to the lost sheep in New Life Church. In such instances, it is not sinful to attend their services to learn what it is New Life is teaching. That’s not “active participation” but educational. One should be cautious, however, as a poorly formed Catholic may find themselves placing their soul at risk in such settings.

So, ecumenical dialogue, sharing in common prayer, etc., is encouraged by the Church. However, we must be cautious against the errors of indifferentism and we need to act so as not to contenance a false Christianity.
 
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genealogist:
Peter Howard STL directly misrepresents the promises a non-Catholic makes when in a mixed marriage. Those rules changed c. 1970 so for him to say the non-Catholic PROMISES to raise the kids 100% Catholic is just wrong. Mistatken at best or an outright lie. If he is so clearly wrong on that are his other “facts” suspect? I say probably so.
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You are correct. The non-Catholic is no longer obliged to make any promises regarding the children. The Catholic, however, is still required to do everything within his power to raise the children 100% Catholic.
 
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bear06:
Let me ask you this again because we might have been in agreement the whole time… Would you have a problem attending a pray service in a protestant church for the end of abortion?
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I don’t really know. That is a good question however. Prayer service only, in a Protestant Chrurch to end abortion. I guess a lot of it would depend on the Pastor,the Church, who else was involved and a lot of other intangibles.

Tough question. I’ll have to think a while on that one. 👍
 
I take these things on a case by case basis too. Most protestant services are prayer services. Of course, there are some that have things that try and look like our Communion but they are not. If I went to a service like this, whether it be a wedding, etc. I, of course, would not participate in that part in any manner that would lead people to believe that I thought their doctrine was correct. If it was part of their service that was simply praying in a manner that was consistant with the Catholic faith (even if it was in a protestant Church) then I would participate. Don’t get the idea that I do this too often. During the full swing Operation Rescue days, I’d attend a prayer service once a month and other than the fact that they were protestants, their prayer was consistant with the Faith. Heck, sometimes they were even in a Catholic Church. Now, with 6 kids, I rarely get to go to these types of things.
 
An official with the Roman Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs who angered many with a column suggesting Catholics should not attend Protestant worship services has resigned.

Peter Howard, executive assistant to Bishop Michael Sheridan, resigned Oct. 31, three weeks after his column in the Colorado Catholic Herald riled Christians of various denominations. ??In the column, Howard said Catholics should not participate in liturgical Protestant services because of the theological differences between Protestantism and Catholicism. ??“Such ‘active participation’ in a Protestant liturgical service, therefore, acts contrary to our faith which professes fundamentally different beliefs in critical ecclesiological and theological areas,” Howard wrote…"

“…The column upset some Catholics — a number of whom attend Protestant and Catholic services. New Life Church, Colorado Springs’ largest congregation, is said to attract thousands of Catholics. ??Sheridan was dismayed over Howard’s comments and on Oct. 20 apologized on behalf of the diocese.”

gazette.com/display.php?id=1312111&secid=1
 
I’m sorry but short of a wedding or funeral, why would any Catholic want to attend a Protestant service?

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and I am back where I belong.

I’m just not in the mind to worship anywhere but with fellow Catholics. Nothing wrong with Protestants, I’m married to one but I want to be with other Catholics.
 
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