Protestant souls

[McCartney]

I did not mean for this to become an argument on the existence of Purgatory but here is 2 Maccabees 12: 43 - 46:

43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

44 For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,

45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

 

[McCartney]

Wouldn’t the gravity of the sins of the deceased determine how long they spend in Purgatory, and, of course, ultimately G-d’s mercy and justice? IOW even if no one prays for Protestants, why would many of them necessarily spend a long time in Purgatory?

BTW, Jews believe in a version of Purgatory, which lasts no more than one year. And they, like Catholics, pray for the deceased.

Prayers would bring full or partial remittance for the soul.

 

[McCartney]

Just curious. How is this different than people getting worked up about Mormons baptizing non-Mormons after their deaths (or whatever that practice is that they do)?

I seem to remember some Catholics getting pretty worked up about that.

Baptising the dead is making a person a Christian after they are dead. See my earlier post of 2 Maccabees 12:43 - 46

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Prayers would bring full or partial remittance for the soul.

Can you cite where that is explained in the Catholic Catechism? Thanks

 

[PJM]

=benjohnson;11858988]As a Protestant, I’m just happy that I now have a soul!

God took care of that for ALL if us Ben; BUT where that Sould lands for Eternity is UP to us.

Yaweh taught
One true God

Only One True Faith [sets of beliefs and practices]

Only One Chosen people [the Jews [hebrew Nation]

CHRIST did NOT reinvent salvation’s NEEDS; ONLY Perfected them

Christ too taught One True God

ONLY One True set of Faith beliefs

& Founded only One New Church [some 1,500 years BEFORE the protestant reformation]
and gives HIIMSELF as a persoanl warranty of this factual truth [John 17:14-20 & Mt 16:18-19]

The Holy Spiirt led to to CAF for HIS reasons. CHECK US OUT my friend:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick PJM} on CAF

 

[McCartney]

Can you cite where that is explained in the Catholic Catechism? Thanks

See my post No. 21.

Like I said in an earlier post, I did not intend this to be an argument on Purgatory. You are free to believe whatever you want. I just posted this so that other Catholics and like minded people can do the same if they wished.

 

[McCartney]

Can you cite where that is explained in the Catholic Catechism? Thanks

Since you wanted the Catechism and not the bible, here goes:

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

 

[cmodrmac]

Thank you so much keep it up

yes we do not believe in Purgatory but the prayers are appreciated

 

[Publisher]

Baptising the dead is making a person a Christian after they are dead. See my earlier post of 2 Maccabees 12:43 - 46

Actually, No that is not what baptism for the dead does at all. According to LDS belief baptism is essential for ALL in order to be “saved”. So in order to give those who have died and never have been baptized a chance to accept the work done in their behalf by the living…the living perform those saving rituals on behalf of those who have died. Whether the baptism is “accepted” or not is up to the dead person…someone being baptized by proxy for someone else is not “making them a Christian” but providing the work for the dead “frees” the dead from not being able to recieve “salvation” as NOW the saving ordinance CAN be accepted… Not IS accepted.

 

[McCartney]

Actually, No that is not what baptism for the dead does at all. According to LDS belief baptism is essential for ALL in order to be “saved”. So in order to give those who have died and never have been baptized a chance to accept the work done in their behalf by the living…the living perform those saving rituals on behalf of those who have died. Whether the baptism is “accepted” or not is up to the dead person…someone being baptized by proxy for someone else is not “making them a Christian” but providing the work for the dead “frees” the dead from not being able to recieve “salvation” as NOW the saving ordinance CAN be accepted… Not IS accepted.

That’s fine. If someone wants to believe in that, so be it.

The reason I am doing this is because some do not believe in Purgatory. I am not trying to convince them to do so but all I am saying I will pray for their dead because they will not.

 

[Captain_America]

Macca: great idea! I’ll do it as well!

You’ve got a good head on your shoulders!

 

[andrewstx]

Wouldn’t the gravity of the sins of the deceased determine how long they spend in Purgatory, and, of course, ultimately G-d’s mercy and justice? IOW even if no one prays for Protestants, why would many of them necessarily spend a long time in Purgatory?

BTW, Jews believe in a version of Purgatory, which lasts no more than one year. And they, like Catholics, pray for the deceased.

Do you think the Kaddish is a prayer for departed souls? I brought this up in a different forum and told it is not.

 

[McCartney]

Macca: great idea! I’ll do it as well!

You’ve got a good head on your shoulders!

Hey!! You called me Macca. The other guy is also called Macca. Thanks.

 

[JosephConsta]

I just had an idea and have started putting it into action.

Protestants (most) do not pray for the dead. They do not believe in Purgatory. Many of their relatives’ souls will be burning in Purgatory with no one to pray for them. I have started to specifically pray for the souls of Protestants in Purgatory.

Hi McCartney,
Yes, I totally agree with you. It’s lovely to pray for souls in Purgatory (Catholics and Non-Catholics), knowing that many of them are not remembered by relatives or friends. Whenever I say rosary, I remind myself that there are a lot of other people saying at the same time and we together form a river of grace that flows to Purgatory. I really hope more and more souls there can be benefited from this.
What if when I die, there won’t be anyone who pray for me. Even so, I still have those “saints” that enter earlier into heaven from Purgatory . They will remember me (us) and pray for us, too.

 

[meltzerboy]

Do you think the Kaddish is a prayer for departed souls? I brought this up in a different forum and told it is not.

In the Kaddish there is no mention of death or the departed. The prayer is basically a glorification of G-d and it is meant to bring a measure of peace to the family of the deceased. By custom, it is recited for eleven months for a parent and one month for a spouse, sibling, or child. However, it is both permissible and desirable to pray the Kaddish for those whose soul has passed on because it means that the soul of the departed must be worthy of G-d’s blessings to have inspired such faith and devotion in their family even in the midst of great loss.

 

[McCartney]

Hi McCartney,
Yes, I totally agree with you. It’s lovely to pray for souls in Purgatory (Catholics and Non-Catholics), knowing that many of them are not remembered by relatives or friends. Whenever I say rosary, I remind myself that there are a lot of other people saying at the same time and we together form a river of grace that flows to Purgatory. I really hope more and more souls there can be benefited from this.
What if when I die, there won’t be anyone who pray for me. Even so, I still have those “saints” that enter earlier into heaven from Purgatory . They will remember me (us) and pray for us, too.

Agreed. We pray for them and when it is our turn they will pray for us.

 

[Publisher]

That’s fine. If someone wants to believe in that, so be it.

The reason I am doing this is because some do not believe in Purgatory. I am not trying to convince them to do so but all I am saying I will pray for their dead because they will not.

And you are to be commended for faithfully practicing this tenet of your faith.

 

[smichhertz]

Wouldn’t the gravity of the sins of the deceased determine how long they spend in Purgatory, and, of course, ultimately G-d’s mercy and justice? IOW even if no one prays for Protestants, why would many of them necessarily spend a long time in Purgatory?

BTW, Jews believe in a version of Purgatory, which lasts no more than one year. And they, like Catholics, pray for the deceased.

Well, “many” is a subjective term. I think the idea was there’s a significant number there. Not so much that Protestants get it “worse” than others so to speak.

I did not know that! Out of curiosity, where did the one year limit come from?

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I just had an idea and have started putting it into action.

Protestants (most) do not pray for the dead. They do not believe in Purgatory. Many of their relatives’ souls will be burning in Purgatory with no one to pray for them. I have started to specifically pray for the souls of Protestants in Purgatory.

Thanks for your obvious love for your fellow believers in the Protestant tradition.

 

[Publisher]

That’s fine. If someone wants to believe in that, so be it.

The reason I am doing this is because some do not believe in Purgatory. I am not trying to convince them to do so but all I am saying I will pray for their dead because they will not.

Your use of the phrase “becasue they will not” carries with it a “indictment” of sorts. It’s not that those of us who do not believe in purgatory WILL NOT PRAY for our dead, but we see no reason to as our beloved dead are in the Presence, we find comfort in placing our departed loved ones in the Hands of a loving and just God and we know that the Hand that holds our departed loved ones is the same Hand that holds us AND them…being in His Hands is the best place to be.

We don’t refuse to pray for our departed loved ones, which “won’t pray” implies, but see no reason to since by faith we accept the comfort God gives to us in regard to our departed loved ones.