Protestant that agree...

[Singinbeauty]

like i said in my first post the name of this thread in no way implies the conversations taking place. it is almost impossible to agrue with some the newer bible beliving christains they seem to have a very hard time admitting they could be wrong. in my short experience of living in the true faith it is almost impossible to talk faith with some one who has been rebaptized. i have a few friends who are in this catagory. yeah you are right they say but i am right too. so we go no where. why is that?

Because humans have this impossible need to always be right. Especially when it comes to Faith. Our Faith is everything to us and when someone comes to ‘debate’ it we take offense to it more often than stepping back and logically reviewing it. That is why it is not good to debate it but follow Christ’s example and state our case, then, if the person does not believe we knock the dust from our sandles and walk away. (Matthew 10:14) There is no use in fighting because all that brings is anymosity. And there is no use in trying to make someone feel stupid for their beliefs because all that does it turn the person’s ears from what you have to say.

Our Faith is who we are. For someone to debate that only puts us on the defense and we miss what they are saying. Someone who speaks with Christ’s Love and Understanding gets a much bigger audience and people end up hearing Christ instead of our own misguided ignorance.

 

[2ndGen]

Because humans have this impossible need to always be right. Especially when it comes to Faith. Our Faith is everything to us and when someone comes to ‘debate’ it we take offense to it more often than stepping back and logically reviewing it. That is why it is not good to debate it but follow Christ’s example and state our case, then, if the person does not believe we knock the dust from our sandles and walk away. (Matthew 10:14) There is no use in fighting because all that brings is anymosity. And there is no use in trying to make someone feel stupid for their beliefs because all that does it turn the person’s ears from what you have to say.

Our Faith is who we are. For someone to debate that only puts us on the defense and we miss what they are saying. Someone who speaks with Christ’s Love and Understanding gets a much bigger audience and people end up hearing Christ instead of our own misguided ignorance.

The biggest thing is that faith requires no proof.

 

[Singinbeauty]

The biggest thing is that faith requires no proof.

You seem to miss the point of my post. Faith requires no proof, I agree. But what I am saying is stop trying to beat the other person over the head while trying to show you are right. Rather, plant the seed and let God to the reaping…

 

[2ndGen]

You seem to miss the point of my post. Faith requires no proof, I agree. But what I am saying is stop trying to beat the other person over the head while trying to show you are right. Rather, plant the seed and let God to the reaping…

I wasn’t responding directly to all your post, but expressing where I believe the question of faith ends.

 

[c659smith]

2nd Gen and Singinbeauty

I am in no way disagreeing with your last two posts and they are very noce.

The fact remains though there is proof more so than evolution took place millions of years ago and that a big bang made the Universe yet people believe this.

 

[fbl9]

okay we are in agreance that beating people over the head doesn’t work. Christ Jesus is our savior.what else? so then we all dust off our sandels and go no where again?

 

[c659smith]

fb19

Fact is one plus one equals two.

Your neighbor says no it is three so for the sake of the good neighbor policy we should say ok!

or should we say no no no

I’m ok and your ok melarchy has allowed the left wing a stage.

You know today if you pour blood into a holy font, Go into a Catholic Church and spat Christ out on the floor in the Eucharist,
deface a Crucifix thats acceptable but do the same to a Jewish Temple or Mosque and it’s a hate crime.

Becuase people want to make something fact that is not fact does not mean we should back off all the time and let them for the sake of tranquility let it go.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Or do they have a house that the congregation paid for that is in the pastor’s name?

I do live in a house that the congregation owns. Your point?

 

[fbl9]

toc569smith from fbl9 i know as a member of the true church it is my duty to try and correct others views my piont was we are going no where saying i am right on both sides of the fence. i am trying to get us to talk about the things which we can agree on, as teh name of this thread implies. most ncc can agree on the apostle’s creed with us. using this as a starting piont the dialoge can evolve to what this creed means.

 

[2ndGen]

I do live in a house that the congregation owns. Your point?

My point was when pastors buy houses in their own names, the congregation pays for it and when they leave the church, they take the house with them as their personal property.

You’re a pastor?

With all due respect, forgive me if I offended you.

I was talking about those that take property from churches, not those (such as yourself or Priests) who live on/in church property (which is in my opinion, the right way to do it).

 

[O.S.Luke]

My point was when pastors buy houses in their own names, the congregation pays for it and when they leave the church, they take the house with them as their personal property.

You’re a pastor?

With all due respect, forgive me if I offended you.

I was talking about those that take property from churches, not those (such as yourself or Priests) who live on/in church property (which is in my opinion, the right way to do it).

Some churches make a housing allowance in lieu of a parsonage or rectory as part of the pastoral remuneration. There are tax benefits and financial benefits to this, to both churches and pastors. Churches don’t have an insurance liability on a house, nor a piece of property that depreciates over time (and churches are notorious for not updating - much less maintaining - parsonages and rectories).

The one problem with living in parsonages all of your life (which I have done for 20+ years) is that you build no equity or credit rating, and when you retire, it can become difficult or even impossible to buy a home.

Having said that, in traditions that appoint their clergy (and I am only aware of United Methodists and Catholics that do this in the U.S.), a parsonage/rectory system is really the only option that truly works for itinerating clergy.

O+

 

[2ndGen]

Some churches make a housing allowance in lieu of a parsonage or rectory as part of the pastoral remuneration. There are tax benefits and financial benefits to this, to both churches and pastors. Churches don’t have an insurance liability on a house, nor a piece of property that depreciates over time (and churches are notorious for not updating - much less maintaining - parsonages and rectories).

The one problem with living in parsonages all of your life (which I have done for 20+ years) is that you build no equity or credit rating, and when you retire, it can become difficult or even impossible to buy a home.

Having said that, in traditions that appoint their clergy (and I am only aware of United Methodists and Catholics that do this in the U.S.), a parsonage/rectory system is really the only option that truly works for itinerating clergy.

O+

When a pastor retires, does the congregation provide for his needs for the rest of his life?

I’m sure it’s different for different groups, so I’ll ask you of yours.

 

[O.S.Luke]

11:00pm.

A grandparent dies.

One man is in between his wife’s legs in the grasp of passion in his bedroom.

The other is fast asleep in a Church.

The phone call comes in that a member of The Flock needs to be spiritually guided.

Who’s the better candidate to consol that grieving grandchild?

The man who just heaved his sweaty body off of a woman in the midst of sexual gratification?

Or the man who’s only bride is The Church?

This has got to be the most irrational post I have ever seen here. Life happens. Even to the ordained. I don’t think that having intercourse with my wife has ever had any bearing on my pastoral counsel with a church member. In fact… I’ve never even thought about it. Are you consumed with such thoughts, 2ndGen?

My phone rings all hours of the night. When it does, I answer it, and I go.

Of all the objections to married priests… I can’t even seriously entertain yours. But your post is worthy of being forwarded to several colleagues for their amusement.

In addition to the faiths named, if a Methodist pastor converts to Catholicism and goes into the priesthood, he may remain married as well if approved through the Apostolic See. There are a few instances of this happening recently. My question, 2ndGen, is this: does a married priest have to abstain from sexual intercourse so his body won’t be sweaty and thus can better attend to a grieving parishioner in case of a call in the night?

Just curious.

O+

 

[O.S.Luke]

When a pastor retires, does the congregation provide for his needs for the rest of his life?

I’m sure it’s different for different groups, so I’ll ask you of yours.

United Methodists are not congregational; we are organized as a General Church and as conferences (akin to a diocese). A pastor and spouse who retires receives a pension benefit from the United Methodist Church and insurance/medical benefits from their local annual conference. However, that does not include housing.

 

[2ndGen]

My question, 2ndGen, is this: does a married priest have to abstain from sexual intercourse so his body won’t be sweaty and thus can better attend to a grieving parishioner in case of a call in the night?

That’s easy!

Former Methodists who become Priests aren’t allowed calls after 9:00 PM!



Besides, I figure they’d be just as clean as they’d be had they remained Methodists ministers and a call came in.

Question: Have you ever been interrupted in the middle of, well, “you know”, with a call from a congregant in need?

 

[2ndGen]

United Methodists are not congregational; we are organized as a General Church and as conferences (akin to a diocese). A pastor and spouse who retires receives a pension benefit from the United Methodist Church and insurance/medical benefits from their local annual conference. However, that does not include housing.

In your opinion, if The Catholic Church allowed married men to serve as Priests, how many non-Catholic clergy and laymen do you think would come to The Church?

 

[fbl9]

hi O.S. Luke wife is now a catholic. I greatly admire her love for the Eucharist,which God gave her, while she was a member of Methodist church. Are there different types of Methodist churches? If so why?

 

[mikeledes]

Are there any two Protestant denominations that agree completely on each other’s doctrines?

The only two things Protestants seem to agree on is Sola Scriptura and justification by faith alone. And yet, when you really go beyond the surface, they don’t agree on that either.

Sola Scriptura

So you all agree believe that the Bible is the only authority. But does it matter when you can’t agree on what the Bible teaches? Here is a sample from James White Apologetics website. In a Reformed (Calvinist) response to a non-Reformed (OSAS evangelical) claim that 2 Peter 2:1 contradicts Calvinits “Limited Atonement”, the Reformed apologist stated:

It is often argued by non-Reformed folk that Reformed adherents “reject” the “plain” meaning of Scripture. Yet, I would argue that it is just here that the non-Reformed advocate does the very thing he alleges of the Reformed.

So both the Reformed and Non-Reformed claim that they are teaching the ‘plain’ meaning of Scripture, but can’t agree on what the “plain” meaning is? If it were so plain, why can’t they agree?

Justification by Faith Alone

Protestants all agree on using this phrase, but don’t agree on what it means. For Martin Luther and Lutherans, it includes baptismal regeneration. For many evangelicals, baptismal regeneration contradicts faith alone. For historic Arminians (Methodists, etc.), this justification can be lost. For OSAS Arminians, loss of justification contradicts faith alone because that means human works (sin) is involved. For Calvinists, all “Faith alone” Arminians are trusting in their own goodness or works (i.e. free choice) and thus are essentially teaching a man-centered salvation (i.e. works salvation). These are substantive differences.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[2ndGen]

The only two things Protestants seem

 

[mikeledes]

mikeledes;3204353:

Actually, I’ve found out here that not only do some Protestants “not” agree on Sola Scriptura, but that those who have SS as part of their religion, they differ among themselves as to “the interpretation” of Sola Scriptura!

They even debate what SS actually means !

That is very true!

God Bless,
Michael