Protestant Theologian Karl Barth on Sola Scriptura

[benhur]

I don’t recall the bible saying Nicodemus was born again,

Hi j,

Did not say Nick was born again . He was a spiritual elder/rabbi/teacher but was* not *born again, born of the spirit , regenerated. He was spiritually dead. Nicodemus was religious , did all the rites and institutional things required, like Luther and some reformers , but were not born again, though baptized and circumcised…

they fail prey to Satan building nothing more than a Tower of Babel

Indeed some do, yet have given life to many a brethren, and that as adding to , and to the unity of the CC.

The Church get well learned converts while you get those who know little

So Luther and Calvin and Huss and Tyndale and Wycliffe knew little ?

While some Catholics in my church had been poorly catechized, many were altar boys , one a nun, and many went to Catholic schools etc., etc. In fact they attribute much to their foundation/knowledge to the CC. Much, much seed…

I understand the bridge goes both ways. WE need not get defensive. God is at work.(period)

Blessings

 

[benhur]

“Spiritual” may mean to you, don’t speak of one Church or infallibe truth but only in general loose terms being PC. I have never heard a Catholic boast of being of Peter as opposed to Paul. That seems to be your thing as you posted above, I put it in bold print, saying, and me of Paul. You seem to be boasting you follow Paul as though he teaches a different gospel than Peter and the other apostles. Catholics don’t pit one against the other as they all have their place in the One Body of Christ as Chirst places them. They all teach the same gospel, One Faith, One baptism for forgiveness of sins not different faiths running into thousands.

We boast in Christ and what He has done in the Church. Giving the Holy Spirit to guide those leaders He set in place to lead and guide them into all truth. Why would Christ promise the Spirit to guide them into all truth if He didn’t really mean it or couldn’t do it? With your theory He should have promised the Spirit to lead them into hit and miss truth. Never knowing when something is gospel truth or error.

Hi j,

WE misunderstand each other . The Peter/Paul thing is from writ where early Christians were boasting of who baptized them , or who they followed and saw as their spiritual father.

My point is that we are sectarian today with labels as Catholic , Orthodox and Protestant. While that is unfortunate yet understandable, the challenge is to remain spiritual, not carnal, to act in love and not proud contention.

Blessings

 

[Abu]

benhur #
While some Catholics in my church had been poorly catechized, many were altar boys , one a nun, and many went to Catholic schools etc., etc. In fact they attribute much to their foundation/knowledge to the CC. Much, much seed…
I understand the bridge goes both ways. WE need not get defensive. God is at work.(period)

As Jesus founded His own Catholic Church and no other, and no other sect has His fullness of Truth – through His Magisterium, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture – amply shown by the conflicting teaching and claims, selfism by choice in rejecting His Church shows the turning away from Him.

All who may be saved eventually are saved only through Christ’s Catholic Church, and no other.

 

[benhur]

In all honesty Ben, what you posted, I find totally off the wall. Three contradicting groups could never remotely be seen as a pillar and ground of truth. God is not the author of confusion and division, scattering people of faith. What is your historic and scriptural evidence?

Hi j,

This won’t help if you are wrongly proud of your faith and covenant *as compared to others.
*
There was once a One, True and Holy covenant in Judaism, as told in OT. They were the pillar of light to the world. The one true religion. God’s chosen. God was their covenant keeper. He is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow. The fact is they were almost as we are today, full of factions and variation of belief and practice. Yet Jehovah was a perfect Shepherd, keeping His promises. When Jesus gets on the scene , He tells the women at the well, “Salvation is of the Jews”. Indeed, for the covenant delivered the Messiah, right on time, as promised.

Now, will you tell the person at the water cooler, salvation is in Christianity, or would you be sectarian and say salvation is of the Roman Catholic church? Will the Orthodox say it is in the Orthodox church or P’s in theirs ? Is the answer exclusive of the others ? Did Jesus say salvation is in the Essenes, or in the Pharisees , or Sadducees ? Do we doubt Christ will not deliver a perfect Bride form amongst us all in that day ?

I as a P am not confused as I am sure you are not as are not the O’s also. Same old same old.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

As Jesus founded His own Catholic Church and no other, and no other sect has His fullness of Truth – through His Magisterium, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture – amply shown by the conflicting teaching and claims, selfism by choice in rejecting His Church shows the turning away from Him.

All who may be saved eventually are saved only through Christ’s Catholic Church, and no other.

Hi Abu,

As you know when there is a error , sometimes one has to explain a lot more, as if thru hops, and as we say about each other 's arguments.

So would you explain to the person at the water cooler that they may be saved thru Christ in an Orthodox church, or a P church, but that really those churches can only offer Christ thru and because of the Catholic church ? Sounds like a lot of explaining to do , this Lumen Gentia. Not as simple as “Salvation is of the Christians”, (as Jesus said it was of the Jews to the women at the well).

But understand everything is Catholic, the apostles , the bible , the councils etc. We are all brethren thru her. I am just waiting for someone to say Jesus was/is Catholic.

Blessings

 

[Abu]

benhur #457
So would you explain to the person at the water cooler that they may be saved thru Christ in an Orthodox church, or a P church, but that really those churches can only offer Christ thru and because of the Catholic church ? Sounds like a lot of explaining to do

As Jesus taught irrevocably **“Thou are Peter (Rock), and upon this rock I will build my Church . . . and I will give to thee the Keys of the kingdom of heaven,” **how can anyone say that Jesus is NOT universal, as St. Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 35-107) in his Letter to the Smyrneans, 8, 2 taught of the meaning of “Catholic”?
And again: “Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

Since it is His Church and Catholic also means “faithful to the teaching of Christ", the facts are in reality well established and irrefutable – the confusion and errors taught outside of His Church are proof enough.
(SEE: The Catholic Catechism, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., Doubleday, 1975, p 217).

It is only of Her that St Paul taught that She is “the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the Truth.” [1 Tim 3:15].

 

[jlhargus]

Beautiful, except you sectarianize the whole thing, for you really mean it is the Roman Catholic Church.

Yes, I certainly mean the Catholic Church Christ is building on Peter. One not two, three or thousands but One Catholic Church. I don’t put on PC blinders pretending a false teaching is equal to truth. I don’t pretend there are no contradicting differences.

While I have no problem being called Roman Catholic. That is not the official name. Its simply Catholic. Adding “Roman” to the Catholic Church is a Anglican invention to justify calling themselves Anglican Catholic. Just as you lump thousands of contentious contradicting denominations as Protestant Catholic. As though its just another branch of the Catholic Church. By no sterach of the imagination Ben are Protestants one universal body or one faith.

You missed the lesson from the old dispensation/covenant. Your making Roman Catholics the only true ones is like the Essenes saying they were the only true covenant carriers , or the Pharisees (pick any one of the sects). Jesus saw the forest thru the trees and said it is “Judaism”. Just as today it is “Christianity” . Ecclesia are the called out ones. We are a body, even a bride, being called out to a “wedding”.

And All those called out ones are spiritually, although imperfectly, united to that One Body and Bride, the Catholic Church. Even if not visibly and doctrinally united. I think you missed the lesson Ben. It has been some time since I read anything on the Essenes. If memory serves me. The Essenes broke with the, One God given authority, the Seat of Moses, the Sanhedrin, and those who sat on that council. Which would be similar to Protestants separating from the, One, God given authority sent to teach the whole world till the end Mt28:16-20. the Bishops in union with the Chair of Peter. I could be wrong, but if memory serves me, the Essenes did claim to be the only true covenant carrier.

What authority did the Essenes have to bind and loose the people of God or to put the apostles out of the Synagogue? None. What one and only religious Jewish authority condemned Stephen, sent Christ to Pilate, examined Peter and John? The Sanhedrin.

The High Priest, Pharisees and probably some Sadducees sat on Mosses’ seat and had covenant authority to bind and loose. That God given authority was taken from them and given to the New Covenant Vineyard Hierarchy, Lk20:9-19. To Peter and the Apostles with that authority passed on, through successors, to the Bishops in union with the holder of the keys of the kingdom.

 

[jlhargus]

Jesus is building His church, via the Catholic, and Orthodox, and P churches. Why not, if He can use a donkey (jack—) for guidance, or twelve rascally, even scoundrel brothers or the good, bad, and ugly of twelve apostles. It all fits for me brother.(the bible says they formed our 24 foundations).

I also (even in the flesh) love perfection, and boxiness, and every thing nice and fit, and that is why we look forward to heaven. An institution can never fill that void on this side of heaven, but is a nice down payment of things to come.

Why not! Because He didn’t say He was building Churches plural, but I will build My Church, singular. There is no Apostolic Tradition or Scriptural evidence otherwise. He prayed His people be One so the world may believe.

Do you also view the Bible as having dogmatic errors? A God, instituted, institution guided by the Holy Spirit can infallibly be guided into all truth because Christ promised. As you even posted, "Why not, if He can use a donkey (jack—) for guidance, or twelve rascally, even scoundrel brothers or the good, bad, and ugly of twelve apostles."

 

[benhur]

As Jesus taught irrevocably **“Thou are Peter (Rock), and upon this rock I will build my Church . . . and I will give to thee the Keys of the kingdom of heaven,” **how can anyone say that Jesus is NOT universal, as St. Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 35-107) in his Letter to the Smyrneans, 8, 2 taught of the meaning of “Catholic”?
And again: “Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

Since it is His Church and Catholic also means “faithful to the teaching of Christ", the facts are in reality well established and irrefutable – the confusion and errors taught outside of His Church are proof enough.
(SEE: The Catholic Catechism, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., Doubleday, 1975, p 217).

It is only of Her that St Paul taught that She is “the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the Truth.” [1 Tim 3:15].

HI Abu,

Again scripture does not say the church is your Catholic church (though she is “universal” and in some fashion /understanding, “was”.) . Patristic fathers may, but as Augustine suggests, such opinions can be judged and not as binding as Writ.

Blessings