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aidanbradypop
Guest
Ok gotcha
When I meet traditionalist…if they are not SSPX they point that out very fast.
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When I meet traditionalist…if they are not SSPX they point that out very fast.
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Peter_J
Guest
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Novocastrian
Guest
Surely the true traditionalist would recognise that we’re damning *ourselves *to hell?Maybe they’re just lazy.
(Kidding.)
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Well I damn Yankee fans to hell so I guess it equals out in the end.Maybe they’re just lazy.
(
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JustaServant
Guest
Since many of these scismatic Catholics consign all Protestants to Hell, I’d love to the fly on the wall to hear that conversation. On the other hand, many of them have much more in common with Protestant fundamentalists than the average Catholic.I like it!
Still, the fact remains that there are quite a lot of protestant/traditionalist conversations going on.
Now, keep in mind, the word “traditionalist” has a wide meaning. There are many, myself included, who love the Latin Mass and attend such Masses within the Diocease when available. Does that make me “tradionalist”? I have no beef with Vatican 2 or the english Mass. Does that make me liberal?
I’m getting a headache already.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
lolSince many of these scismatic Catholics consign all Protestants to Hell, I’d love to the fly on the wall to hear that conversation. On the other hand, many of them have much more in common with Protestant fundamentalists than the average Catholic.
Now, keep in mind, the word “traditionalist” has a wide meaning. There are many, myself included, who love the Latin Mass and attend such Masses within the Diocease when available. Does that make me “tradionalist”? I have no beef with Vatican 2 or the english Mass. Does that make me liberal?
I’m getting a headache already.
here’s some aleve
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Peter_J
Guest
Oh I quite know what you mean. (One of my personal pet peeves is that “traditionalist” Catholics are opposed to the original Creed of 381, which didn’t have the filioque.) But at the same time, I guess we’ve got to give people a certain amount of leeway w.r.t. what they want to be called, y’know? It’s like how I would say No if someone said “Are you Orthodox?” b/c I’m not part of the group whose proper name is Orthodox.Since many of these scismatic Catholics consign all Protestants to Hell, I’d love to the fly on the wall to hear that conversation. On the other hand, many of them have much more in common with Protestant fundamentalists than the average Catholic.
Now, keep in mind, the word “traditionalist” has a wide meaning. There are many, myself included, who love the Latin Mass and attend such Masses within the Diocease when available. Does that make me “tradionalist”? I have no beef with Vatican 2 or the english Mass. Does that make me liberal?
I’m getting a headache already.
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Aslan10
Guest
I’ll say this. The argument between ‘traditional catholics’ and those that accept Vatican II are the biggest reason that I can’t see the Catholic Church as ‘the one true church.’ I think the SSPX and other traditionalist expose the contradictory nature of Vatican II from past councils. The fact that this council was contradictory makes me question the ‘infallibility’ of the church.
And as a current protestant i know and wont believe that any of them are infallible. Also, as much as I love the heart of Pope Francis and the post vatican II popes–I cant help but notice their teaching has strayed from “you have a duty to God and much follow him to save your soul”, because now everyone is going to be saved. As much as I’d love that, I think the Catholic Church has become soft. It used to stand for something, now its adopted more modernist philosophies. I’ve lost a little respect (And I want to try and say this is the most charitable way). I’m just being honest. It makes me sad too, because I feel a little lost spiritually and want a home but I have to settle for “middle way.”
And as a current protestant i know and wont believe that any of them are infallible. Also, as much as I love the heart of Pope Francis and the post vatican II popes–I cant help but notice their teaching has strayed from “you have a duty to God and much follow him to save your soul”, because now everyone is going to be saved. As much as I’d love that, I think the Catholic Church has become soft. It used to stand for something, now its adopted more modernist philosophies. I’ve lost a little respect (And I want to try and say this is the most charitable way). I’m just being honest. It makes me sad too, because I feel a little lost spiritually and want a home but I have to settle for “middle way.”
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Aslan10
Guest
I also would like to mention that I could be wrong about all this. I don’t want to claim that I know everything. So if I have misread, misheard or misinterpreted the situation I am willingly to stand corrected.
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Peter_J
Guest
Not to start a side-discussion, but just to clarify your personal identity: do you mean that you’re an “Orthodox-leaning” protestant?
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Aslan10
Guest
No No. I’m currently a conservative anglican. But I think I have more traditional Catholic views.
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Peter_J
Guest
Thanks for clarifying.
(I’m not sure I why I typed “Orthodox-leaning protestant” rather than “Orthodox-leaning Anglican”, but I guess your statement covers it anyhow.)
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Peter,
I have noticed on the forum and off the forum that usually fundamentalist Protestants that convert become very traditionalist Catholics. Kind of like from one extreme to the next. Mainline Protestants that convert usually become what some call “liberal” Catholics.
Have you noticed the same?
I have noticed on the forum and off the forum that usually fundamentalist Protestants that convert become very traditionalist Catholics. Kind of like from one extreme to the next. Mainline Protestants that convert usually become what some call “liberal” Catholics.
Have you noticed the same?
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Peter_J
Guest
It certainly seems that way to me: People who switch from one church/denomination to another tend (with exception I’m sure) to stay conservative or liberal.
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Aslan10
Guest
I try my best to stay as moderate as possible. But I can’t help but see the contradictions in Vatican II which leads me to believe that the CC has erred (i say that with the most sincere charity). You can’t contradict a previous infallible statement or else its heresy correct? Which would mean error. If I am wrong please correct me. I mention this because I am searching for the truth and maybe someone hear can point me in the right direction.
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dronald
Guest
What contradictions?
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KP3243
Guest
I have met a few SSPX traditionalists and some are sweet but some are insane. I am all for traditional roles for women but freaking out because women sometimes wear pants is a little extreme. They have a school in my area and I couldn’t figure out why it didn’t show up on the diocesan website of affiliated schools, the name was Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, until I drove by it one day and all the little girls were playing soccer in long skirts and their mothers on the sideline were also wearing long skirts.
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Indifferently
Guest
If that’s the biggest reason then please do read the Epistle to the Romans. Again and again.
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Indifferently
Guest
What did Unam sanctam mean when it was promulgated? Why does Vatican II claim Muslims worship the true God?
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Aslan10
Guest
Number 1
“The separated churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from the defects already mentioned, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fulness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.” (Decree on Oecumenism Unitatis Redintegratio, paragraph 3)
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the Devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with her…” (Pope Eugene IV Council of Florence)
Number 2
“In certain circumstances, such as in prayer services ‘for unity’ and during oecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable, that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly a very effective means of petitioning for the grace of unity, and they are a genuine expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren.” (Decree on Oecumenism Unitatis Redintegratio, paragraph 8)
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896: “The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative
Magisterium.” 8
Thats just a couple. I’m just saying. There was a completely different attitude towards non-catholics and their standing with the Catholic Church. I think that is very obvious.
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