Protestant view of Catholic Men

[mariahloves]

Metaphor

I see. So the Church should be masculine then?

 

[The_Geographer]

I see. So the Church should be masculine then?

The Church is really neither masculine or feminine. But I also like to hear it related to the feminine. You arguing from nothing. I’m not fighting anything but telling people what my perception was growing up. My current views is that many men in all of society don’t stand up to what they believe but rather have become wishy washy and promote relativism instead of orthodox beliefs. Demonizing me is quite frankly insulting, which I believe is the actual intention of those post byers…[drive by posters that really don’t read]

Theology exists to show that believing is rational, not prove it to be true.

 

[mariahloves]

The Church is really neither masculine or feminine. But I also like to hear it related to the feminine. You arguing from nothing. I’m not fighting anything but telling people what my perception was growing up. My current views is that many men in all of society don’t stand up to what they believe but rather have become wishy washy and promote relativism instead of orthodox beliefs. Demonizing me is quite frankly insulting, which I believe is the actual intention of those post byers…[drive by posters that really don’t read]

Theology exists to show that believing is rational, not prove it to be true.

So when we use feminine pronouns for the Church, is that meaningless? I don’t understand. Actually I heard a priest on that EWTN channel specifically state that the Church is feminine and that he found it detered Protestant male converts. I thought it was like, a known thing that the Church is feminine. I’m not demonizing you. I read all of the posts. Don’t make assumptions based on you know, nothing.

And for the record, when it comes to religion men and women have stopped standing up for what they believe in. People need to grow a spine and stop trying to please everyone.

 

[Dale_M]

Actually I heard a priest on that EWTN channel specifically state that the Church is feminine and that he found it detered Protestant male converts. I thought it was like, a known thing that the Church is feminine.

I thought it was pretty well known too. Certainly it goes all the way back to St. Paul:

Ephesians 5: 23-27

23
For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24
As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.
25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26
to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27
that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

usccb.org/nab/bible/ephesians/ephesians5.htm

 

[The_Geographer]

So when we use feminine pronouns for the Church, is that meaningless? I don’t understand. Actually I heard a priest on that EWTN channel specifically state that the Church is feminine and that he found it detered Protestant male converts. I thought it was like, a known thing that the Church is feminine. I’m not demonizing you. I read all of the posts. Don’t make assumptions based on you know, nothing.

And for the record, when it comes to religion men and women have stopped standing up for what they believe in. People need to grow a spine and stop trying to please everyone.

This thread isn’t really about women. It’s about men. Men who don’t learn their faith well enough to teach it to others, more specifically they don’t learn how to defend it to others. If you listen to CAF and EWTN you will find that all of these are metaphors to describe the nature of the mysteries that have been revealed to us. When a priest says he is married to the Church, he is not really married to the Church. He is a single man that has dedicated to live the way we are all supposed to live once we reach paradise. Sister and nuns are not actually married to Christ, yet they habits are their brides dress. It’s symbolic. Because of scripture and sacred tradition originally the Church is described as the bride, but it doesn’t mean literally, it is describing a covenant relationship between God and man. I’m studying theology but not deep enough to get into this too far.

Protestant’s that get “weirded out” of the Church being feminine is just scrupulosity and kind of ridiculous. I was Protestant. Many evangelical faiths are very male dominant. I laugh at women that cry that the Catholic Church is not woman friendly. The Catholic Church is the most woman friendly organization there is on the planet. Another thing that conjured up this thought was the fact that a lady in charge of the diaconate program in my area treated me like a buffoon and then turned to my wife and was ultra rude to her as well. If she was trying to joke around she had no right to claim that another man had acted idiotic [which he was]. But she did something similar. I was offended by it because I had never met her and did not know anything about her. She was abusing her authority over men. I know so many women that want women priests and deacons that it really turns my stomach. I would be what some would call a Traditional Catholic. This is the kind of Catholicism I was exposed to by my father. I’ve met a lot of good solid Catholic men over the past 3 years, something that I don’t recall growing up. But then again I wasn’t exposed to good Catholic families most of my life because the majority of my family is Protestant.

My Protestant father-in-law was the best man I knew. He was a man, stood for what he believed in and did not back down from anyone. He was an elder or what we believed to be equivalent to a bishop. We have many preachers in the family. But my specific experience with Catholic and Protestant men and women is very different. Catholic women seem truly stronger, in a good way, but some of the baby boomers are really out there. The men that married these women seem to really be the ones I’m talking about. But the young men, Pope John Paul II age, are really stepping up to the plate now. That is a very bright moment in the Church. I’ve seen Apologetics finally gain a stance, unlike before when I felt like I was alone defending Catholicism. That baby boomer age group sold us out, short, bought into the lies and scandalized all of us. That’s mainly why I originally left. I didn’t believe that anybody believed in the true teachings of the Church. I never understood why the bishops didn’t try to straighten it out, which I found very weak minded. We’re seeing today the scandalous decisions they made years ago in the 60s, 70s and at least part of the 80s. The reason I’m not a priest today is because of what happened to me in the seminary. I was buried under a rug for turning in an sick puppy.

Apparently this thread needs to end because if obviously hit a nerve with a lot of people. And it didn’t help that I post it originally meaning to use “used to” think Catholic men were wimps. Wimps for allowing women to take over the Church to the point that it no longer seems to be for men as well. Women wear their feelings on their shoulders and the men are expected to shut up about it. I come from a male dominated church/religion and am not accustomed to all of the femininity at the level of the leadership. I’m getting more and more used to it. Even several people on EWTN have stated that there is an air about the imprudent decision to allow girls to be alter servers. Its seen as stripping the traditions of the Church down to meaningless.

Please do continue to discuss the Church as a woman. But she is not literally a woman. She is made up of both male and females. We speak of God as a man. But he is not literally a man. He’s actually neither. That’s what I learned over the past 3 years listening to and reading CAF material. Attack them, not me.

 

[mariahloves]

This thread isn’t really about women. It’s about men.

Sorry

Men who don’t learn their faith well enough to teach it to others, more specifically they don’t learn how to defend it to others. If you listen to CAF and EWTN you will find that all of these are metaphors to describe the nature of the mysteries that have been revealed to us. When a priest says he is married to the Church, he is not really married to the Church. He is a single man that has dedicated to live the way we are all supposed to live once we reach paradise. Sister and nuns are not actually married to Christ, yet they habits are their brides dress. It’s symbolic. Because of scripture and sacred tradition originally the Church is described as the bride, but it doesn’t mean literally, it is describing a covenant relationship between God and man. I’m studying theology but not deep enough to get into this too far.

I believe it is symbolic as well

Protestant’s that get “weirded out” of the Church being feminine is just scrupulosity and kind of ridiculous. I was Protestant. Many evangelical faiths are very male dominant.

I agree and I know what you mean about evangelical faiths being male dominant.

I laugh at women that cry that the Catholic Church is not woman friendly. The Catholic Church is the most woman friendly organization there is on the planet.

I totally agree. I love that the Church is women friendly. Catholicism values and respect women as equals to men. (Not equal as in, exactly the same, by the way.)

I know so many women that want women priests and deacons that it really turns my stomach.

I’m not like that, if that’s what you think. Some people are just lost and confused and in need of prayer and guidance.

That baby boomer age group sold us out, short, bought into the lies and scandalized all of us. That’s mainly why I originally left. I didn’t believe that anybody believed in the true teachings of the Church.

What specifically are you talking about? I assumed the 50’s would be much more traditional than today.

Apparently this thread needs to end because if obviously hit a nerve with a lot of people.

It needs to thrive because it hit a nerve. Why don’t you want to discuss things or debate? This is why the forum is here. Not to argue but to discuss.

Wimps for allowing women to take over the Church to the point that it no longer seems to be for men as well.

I really cannot relate to this because I see nothing of the sort at my parish. Women haven’t “taken over” at my parish. Of course they do participate because they’re human beings who have thoughts and feelings, but it’s not as if we have a female priest or something.

Women wear their feelings on their shoulders and the men are expected to shut up about it. I come from a male dominated church/religion and am not accustomed to all of the femininity at the level of the leadership. I’m getting more and more used to it. Even several people on EWTN have stated that there is an air about the imprudent decision to allow girls to be alter servers. Its seen as stripping the traditions of the Church down to meaningless.

Alter servers aren’t even leaders. What leadership positions are you talking about, that women have taken over?

Please do continue to discuss the Church as a woman. But she is not literally a woman. She is made up of both male and females. We speak of God as a man. But he is not literally a man. He’s actually neither. That’s what I learned over the past 3 years listening to and reading CAF material. Attack them, not me.

Actually, I’ve heard a Catholic on this forum say God is literally a man…so I guess it’s to each his own

 

[KathleenGee]

It hit a nerve with me. I went to Mass last night, a beautiful, candle-lit contemplative Mass for Palm Sunday, and prayed that our identity in gender would grow and anything our culture has led us astray from our own specific graces and gifts of identity would be restored.

It was about 1969 or so when the whole gender issue started coming to light and alot of engaged couples broke up at that time. There was Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedhan (spelling) that started the feminist movement…the birth control practice came out in the open about 1968. It was a very ugly time for me in a secular college, and I transferred to a larger university to graduate. Roles were not clear at all…when AIDS came out about 1980 or so, that tempered the free sex life alot of people were into during the 70’s.

 

[The_Geographer]

Sorry

I believe it is symbolic as well


I agree and I know what you mean about evangelical faiths being male dominant.


I totally agree. I love that the Church is women friendly. Catholicism values and respect women as equals to men. (Not equal as in, exactly the same, by the way.)


I’m not like that, if that’s what you think. Some people are just lost and confused and in need of prayer and guidance.
RE: Women Priests: No this is not what I think.

What specifically are you talking about? I assumed the 50’s would be much more traditional than today.

It needs to thrive because it hit a nerve. Why don’t you want to discuss things or debate? This is why the forum is here. Not to argue but to discuss.
:sad_yes: I’m glad it hit a nerve. I just could have worded it better from the beginning.

I really cannot relate to this because I see nothing of the sort at my parish. Women haven’t “taken over” at my parish. Of course they do participate because they’re human beings who have thoughts and feelings, but it’s not as if we have a female priest or something.
I think this has something to do with me coming out of a male dominated church [ecclesial community. Fundamental and Evangelical “churches of Christ” and my father was an ultra Traditional Catholic and male chauvinist for the most part]
I render great respect to women as they do deserve it. I just haven’t quite figured it all out yet. I would say that if you asked a conservative church of Christ person about this you’d get the gist of what I’m referring. Mom taught me to be a perfect gentleman as well as dad’s parents, with whom I lived with several years while he was out sewing his wild oats. Long story short, I nearly got killed because of lack of parental guidance at 2 drinking mushroom tea my older brother coerced me into doing. I went to the emergency room and nearly died. This woke my father up, but only 2 years later when he finally set me and my older brother up for first communion preparation with a priest. My first confession and first communion was when I was within a month, maybe 2 months, from my 15th birthday. The religious love of Christ stuck, but the massive confusion from my mother’s anti-Catholic rhetoric also stuck in some ways. I was always a bible only Christian until 3 years ago when I realized it really doesn’t work and is one of the gravest heresies to hit Christ’s Church.:crying:

Alter servers aren’t even leaders. What leadership positions are you talking about, that women have taken over?
I know, but when I left there were only male altar servers. I was an altar boy, not an altar server. This really threw me. My wife feels the same way. But as I said in the Church of Christ women are never allowed to serve even like this, not even as ushers. It’s based on women being silent in the worship. And anything that is considered worship, which could be prayer meeting. If one man is present and 2000 women are there, only the man can lead the prayer. My Catholic father was offended by all of these things too. We scaufed at if from the Protestant side. And please never call a member of the “churches of Christ” that they are Protestant, they believe that they have the fullness of the faith…strange when I look back at it. I was proselytized by a church when I was 9 and 10 while living with my mom in San Antonio in the Candle Light Apartments after my parents divorced. So dad didn’t return to his faith until it was almost too late for me.

Actually, I’ve heard a Catholic on this forum say God is literally a man…so I guess it’s to each his own

And that is okay, but he is not literally a man. Check it out.

 

[mark_a]

I can vouch that my perception of Catholic men has always been “wimp” and “buffoon” most all my life. Assuming you give your perspective, why do you have the perception? Further, express the view of the men in your own faith. Catholics are welcome to reply as well.

It’s the culture of killing we live in, not the men themselves.

We live in a culture that tells women to immitate men with the following exceptions:

• Women get pregnant when they damn well please.
• They marry IF they want.
• They abort when they damn well please whether they are married or not.
• They abuse the courts to bleed men to the point of poverty.

When males are raised in this scenario of women holding all the cards, how else would you expect them to turn out?

Women today have lost all sense that people thrive when they are in the service of others. Women used to be in service to and sacrifice for their families. Now their children provide “service” (child support) to their mothers.

God help our families.

Note to wife:
I am in no way refering to you!

 

[The_Geographer]

It’s the culture of killing we live in, not the men themselves.

We live in a culture that tells women to immitate men with the following exceptions:

• Women get pregnant when they damn well please.
• They marry IF they want.
• They abort when they damn well please whether they are married or not.
• They abuse the courts to bleed men to the point of poverty.

When males are raised in this scenario of women holding all the cards, how else would you expect them to turn out?

Women today have lost all sense that people thrive when they are in the service of others. Women used to be in service to and sacrifice for their families. Now their children provide “service” (child support) to their mothers.

God help our families.

Note to wife:
I am in no way referring to you!

I know what you mean and agree. But, I’m sure I’m not the only one that would appreciate avoiding the use abrasive language - its part of the same that feeds into this kind of thing. Those women have also been pushed into this life style by pathetic men - scumbags - that rape, beat and all sorts of things not talked about. The result was the backlash of women against men. Anytime men do not stand up to God’s expectations, things happen to “correct” what they failed to do. This is the consequence of sin. Man’s sin.

I love the coined phrase “culture of death” simply because it seems to sum the entire state of the world we live in today.

 

[The_Geographer]

AND I KEEP FORGETTING TO CLARIFY MY POST. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY WEAK, BUFFOON AND etc…

I originally wrote:

I can vouch that my perception of Catholic men has always been “wimp” and “buffoon” most all my life. Assuming you give your perspective, why do you have the perception? Further, express the view of the men in your own faith. Catholics are welcome to reply as well.

What I meant to say is off by one letter…replace the above red with** “had always been”

So what it should have said is the following:
**

**
I can vouch that my perception of Catholic men **had always been “wimp” and “buffoon” most all my life. Assuming you give your perspective, why do you have the perception? Further, express the view of the men in your own faith. Catholics are welcome to reply as well.

I really didn’t mean to give this as my predominant view of the majority of men. But there are several people that seem to disagree. I belong to a lay apostolate called “E-5 Men” that is designed basically to restore men to orthodox views of women, pray for those women that they failed in the past and present, including old girlfriends and sex flings. I recommend all men join this whether Catholic or Protestant or whatever. It’s all in how we view God.

I had to learn how to be a man. What I learned I learned by watching men that stayed married their entire life, for the long haul. And the women, even when the griped like crazy, didn’t repell them. My issue is with men who abandon women for their fading looks, grumpiness, or whatever. This to me is really very sick. And some justify watching porn or cheating on their wives for all of the above reasons.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I can vouch that my perception of Catholic men has always been “wimp” and “buffoon” most all my life. Assuming you give your perspective, why do you have the perception? Further, express the view of the men in your own faith. Catholics are welcome to reply as well.

That doesn’t seem to fit with Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, JPII, Larry Kudlow, GK Chesterton, John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, etc.

Which Catholic men are you thinking of?

 

[The_Geographer]

That doesn’t seem to fit with Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, JPII, Larry Kudlow, GK Chesterton, John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, etc.

Which Catholic men are you thinking of?

If you actually read the posts you might see what I said that should have clarified this by now, particularly my last few posts which was an attempt to correct my first. I’ve been busy unemployed looking for a job and taking care of a very active 5 year old girler…princess.

 

[mark_a]

I know what you mean and agree.

But, I’m sure I’m not the only one that would appreciate avoiding the use abrasive language - its part of the same that feeds into this kind of thing.

I stand corrected.

Those women have also been pushed into this life style by pathetic men - scumbags - that rape, beat and all sorts of things not talked about.

I know these things happen, but they are not culturally acceptable in the same way as my bullet point list.

The result was the backlash of women against men. Anytime men do not stand up to God’s expectations, things happen to “correct” what they failed to do. This is the consequence of sin. Man’s sin.

Right. It’s the chicken and the egg.

It’s also the serpent in the garden of Eden all over again.

I love the coined phrase “culture of death” simply because it seems to sum the entire state of the world we live in today.

In the words of Fr. Groeschel, the pope was being kind when he called ours “a culture of death”. It really is a culture of killing.

 

[The_Geographer]

I stand corrected.

I know these things happen, but they are not culturally acceptable in the same way as my bullet point list.

Right. It’s the chicken and the egg.

It’s also the serpent in the garden of Eden all over again.

In the words of Fr. Groeschel, the pope was being kind when he called ours “a culture of death”. It really is a culture of killing.

Didn’t under stand the “EEK” emoticon but the rest I agree with for the most part.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If you actually read the posts you might see what I said that should have clarified this by now, particularly my last few posts which was an attempt to correct my first. I’ve been busy unemployed looking for a job and taking care of a very active 5 year old girler…princess.

I was responding to the first post. Sorry.

 

[greggy53]

The Church is really neither masculine or feminine. But I also like to hear it related to the feminine. You arguing from nothing. I’m not fighting anything but telling people what my perception was growing up. My current views is that many men in all of society don’t stand up to what they believe but rather have become wishy washy and promote relativism instead of orthodox beliefs. Demonizing me is quite frankly insulting, which I believe is the actual intention of those post byers…[drive by posters that really don’t read]

Theology exists to show that believing is rational, not prove it to be true.

I agree with you, and can understand your consternation at having been demonized. You do have to admit though that you are the one who opened that door.

 

[The_Geographer]

I agree with you, and can understand your consternation at having been demonized. You do have to admit though that you are the one who opened that door.

consternation , good word… I’ll have to add it to my list.

Whatever you say pal

joking. I was a bit hasty in the way I presented my thoughts. I tried to correct it as I went. But I sure pulled out a couple of folks to show their true nature.

 

[greggy53]

consternation , good word… I’ll have to add it to my list.

Whatever you say pal

joking. I was a bit hasty in the way I presented my thoughts. I tried to correct it as I went. But I sure pulled out a couple of folks to show their true nature.

You certainly elicited some interesting views and comments. I don’t mean to be sadistic, but I have to admit it was fun watching you squirm…

 

[The_Geographer]

You certainly elicited some interesting views and comments. I don’t mean to be sadistic, but I have to admit it was fun watching you squirm…

Oh yea…gee thanks.