Protestant view of Israel.

[CopticChristian]

“Church teaching” in this context means Catholic doctrine which is based on but not part of the Scriptures. The Church can and does teach truth. However, God’s people sin and “play the harlot” often. It is possible that the teaching of the Church can be wrong. It is God’s word that is not. So to base your understanding of the Bible upon Church teaching is relying on a foundation that could fail.
Church teaching is any teaching, during, before, or after the writing of the Scriptures, which is based upon but not part of the Scriptures themselves. That’s clear?
Paul is quoting Deuteronomy and intends to say that we can understand God’s word. That faith produces righteousness in us, that we don’t have to rely upon man-made traditions or laws for our understanding.

Church teaching" in this context means Catholic doctrine which is based on but not part of the Scriptures.

This is a contradiction, if as you say, the Church started at Pentecost…becuase if true then all that was written and all that was assimilated as “Bible” is part of Church teaching, because it was birthed by and from the Church and all that it contains is Church teaching requiring someone to teach it.

Church teaching is any teaching, during, before, or after the writing of the Scriptures, which is based upon but not part of the Scriptures themselves.

Here you further contradict and it is an ingominy that you do not see that you do so.

Paul is quoting Deuteronomy and intends to say that we can understand God’s word.

So, it is your belief that Paul is quoting Deuteronomy, becuase it is the purpose of Paul to say…you can understand God’s word. Is this correct? If so, who taught you this?

 

[CopticChristian]

My comments about what was the Church were simply explaining the context I was using it. The Church is made up of believers, not unbelievers. Not that a Mormon couldn’t potentially be a believer, but it is likely that he is not part of the Church.

So then

Jehovah Witness are part of the Church as well then…

Mormon’s are potential believers you say,

Tell me what defines a believer?

 

[CopticChristian]

It is easy enough to determine if Israel of today is the true Israel.

1. The transformation of the Jewish People

During the last third of Moses’ life, the Jews wander for forty years in the desert. During that time new generations are born, a new Jew, born in freedom replaces the Jew of slavery. It is this transformed Jew, who understands freedom and independence, who will settle and liberate the eternal Jewish homeland.

At the Diaspora, one third of the Jewish nation will die fighting the Roman empire. The surviving Jews leave into the Diaspora so transformed in their commitment to the Jewish Nation and Torah, that they will survive the Diaspora as a people.

We should therefore expect to find a similar cataclysm involving one third of the Jewish nation, a cataclysm which will transform the Diaspora Jew reliant on the sufferance of others, to an independent Jew, self reliant and cognizant of how essential,is a strong, independent Israel. Such a cataclysm took place.

1. Israel would be an event in which the hand of God is evident:

Throughout the Jewish scriptures we see a recurring theme in which the basic weakness of the Jewish people makes it clear to the reader that the Jewish victory or event is not contingent on the Jewish nation but can only be explained through God. The whole idea of choosing the weak Jewish nation is based on this premise. The newly formed State of Israel was attacked by no less than 7 armies. Arms embargoes were placed on the Jewish State. No nations came to its aid. British officers led the Arab legion. Many of the fighters for Israel were emaciated holocaust survivors, not only without military training but without even a knowledge of Hebrew. From my kitchen window I can see the hill where a ragtag group of Israeli defenders armed only with light weapons stopped the advance of the British led Jordanian legion. Israel, against all logic, won the war of re-independence.

1. Seemingly random event that come to the aid of the Jewish People

In the book of Esther, we see seemingly random events which will lead to salvation of the Jews from their imminent destruction. The lesson is that even in the Jewish Nation’s darkest hour, God is always with the Jews. After winning their re-independence, the French came to aid the Jewish Nation. When they stopped giving their support, a potentially disastrous situation, America suddenly became their replacement. As Israel began to seemingly be on a road of economic stagnation and slowdown, events allowed the aliyah to Israel of a million Russian Jews. Then Israel became a high tech superpower and now, the ultimate nation without natural resources, discovers trillions of cubic feet of natural gas and its shale oil deposits, if they can be exploited, are equal to the entire oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. There exists an actual possibility that it will be Israel, which will liberate Europe from OPEC’s yoke.

1. We would expect the true Israel to be a “light unto the nations”

Tiny modern Israel, sitting on a land area about the size of New Jersey, with 8 million citizens, surrounded by a billion enemies is a world leader in science, technology, medicine, agriculture, ecology and humanitarian projects. It already has 10 Nobel Prizes (by comparison Ireland has 5).The Mars curiosity rover, the F-35, Apple i phones and iPads , Samsung S4’s, X box, play station, the Intel computer chip in your computer all contain Israeli technology (the list is seemingly endless - you can watch some of the videos in my signature or you could look it up on ask.com (an Israeli search engine) or Google (which uses Israeli advanced text search algorithms). You can also understand that countries that are good to Israel like America, profit not only morally but financially with Israeli technology and inventions streaming billions upon billions into American companies. I guarantee that everyone reading this post, whether at home, in their car, at the office, or at a hospital, will be using Israeli technology during their day.

1. We would expect Israel to fulfill Biblical prophesies:

see the video:

youtube.com/watch?v=ydwxy9yqhzM&list=FLsYPUdgCAHnnALnxnQ7hCgw&index=27

1. We would expect to have evil forces aligned against Israel:

Just as there are those who love God, there are those who hate God or deny His existence. Similarly we can expect with the true Israel’ those who love and support Israel and a group of those who hate, malign and lie about Israel. Groups of people who deny the word of God or who seek to twist it. Love God - Love Israel.

This is a thoughtful effort. The Israel created by the United Nations is not the Israel of the Bible.

 

[luthier93]

This is a contradiction, if as you say, the Church started at Pentecost…becuase if true then all that was written and all that was assimilated as “Bible” is part of Church teaching, because it was birthed by and from the Church and all that it contains is Church teaching requiring someone to teach it.
Here you further contradict and it is an ingominy that you do not see that you do so.
So, it is your belief that Paul is quoting Deuteronomy, becuase it is the purpose of Paul to say…you can understand God’s word. Is this correct? If so, who taught you this?

Both comments I made were not doctrinal statements but rather explanations of th context in which I was using them. Therefore, it is not a contradiction. If I were making a doctrinal statement regarding what “Church teaching” is, that would be a different matter.
Paul says we can understand God’s word. Moses says we can understand God’s word. Jesus says we can understand God’s word. I do not need anyone to teach me that. I read it in the Scriptures and believe it to be true.

 

[luthier93]

It is easy enough to determine if Israel of today is the true Israel.

1. The transformation of the Jewish People

During the last third of Moses’ life, the Jews wander for forty years in the desert. During that time new generations are born, a new Jew, born in freedom replaces the Jew of slavery. It is this transformed Jew, who understands freedom and independence, who will settle and liberate the eternal Jewish homeland.

At the Diaspora, one third of the Jewish nation will die fighting the Roman empire. The surviving Jews leave into the Diaspora so transformed in their commitment to the Jewish Nation and Torah, that they will survive the Diaspora as a people.

We should therefore expect to find a similar cataclysm involving one third of the Jewish nation, a cataclysm which will transform the Diaspora Jew reliant on the sufferance of others, to an independent Jew, self reliant and cognizant of how essential,is a strong, independent Israel. Such a cataclysm took place.

1. Israel would be an event in which the hand of God is evident:

Throughout the Jewish scriptures we see a recurring theme in which the basic weakness of the Jewish people makes it clear to the reader that the Jewish victory or event is not contingent on the Jewish nation but can only be explained through God. The whole idea of choosing the weak Jewish nation is based on this premise. The newly formed State of Israel was attacked by no less than 7 armies. Arms embargoes were placed on the Jewish State. No nations came to its aid. British officers led the Arab legion. Many of the fighters for Israel were emaciated holocaust survivors, not only without military training but without even a knowledge of Hebrew. From my kitchen window I can see the hill where a ragtag group of Israeli defenders armed only with light weapons stopped the advance of the British led Jordanian legion. Israel, against all logic, won the war of re-independence.

1. Seemingly random event that come to the aid of the Jewish People

In the book of Esther, we see seemingly random events which will lead to salvation of the Jews from their imminent destruction. The lesson is that even in the Jewish Nation’s darkest hour, God is always with the Jews. After winning their re-independence, the French came to aid the Jewish Nation. When they stopped giving their support, a potentially disastrous situation, America suddenly became their replacement. As Israel began to seemingly be on a road of economic stagnation and slowdown, events allowed the aliyah to Israel of a million Russian Jews. Then Israel became a high tech superpower and now, the ultimate nation without natural resources, discovers trillions of cubic feet of natural gas and its shale oil deposits, if they can be exploited, are equal to the entire oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. There exists an actual possibility that it will be Israel, which will liberate Europe from OPEC’s yoke.

1. We would expect the true Israel to be a “light unto the nations”

Tiny modern Israel, sitting on a land area about the size of New Jersey, with 8 million citizens, surrounded by a billion enemies is a world leader in science, technology, medicine, agriculture, ecology and humanitarian projects. It already has 10 Nobel Prizes (by comparison Ireland has 5).The Mars curiosity rover, the F-35, Apple i phones and iPads , Samsung S4’s, X box, play station, the Intel computer chip in your computer all contain Israeli technology (the list is seemingly endless - you can watch some of the videos in my signature or you could look it up on ask.com (an Israeli search engine) or Google (which uses Israeli advanced text search algorithms). You can also understand that countries that are good to Israel like America, profit not only morally but financially with Israeli technology and inventions streaming billions upon billions into American companies. I guarantee that everyone reading this post, whether at home, in their car, at the office, or at a hospital, will be using Israeli technology during their day.

1. We would expect Israel to fulfill Biblical prophesies:

see the video:

youtube.com/watch?v=ydwxy9yqhzM&list=FLsYPUdgCAHnnALnxnQ7hCgw&index=27

1. We would expect to have evil forces aligned against Israel:

Just as there are those who love God, there are those who hate God or deny His existence. Similarly we can expect with the true Israel’ those who love and support Israel and a group of those who hate, malign and lie about Israel. Groups of people who deny the word of God or who seek to twist it. Love God - Love Israel.

Very nice outlook. Isn’t it true that God can use human agencies to bring about his plan (i.e., U.N., Babylon, Assyria)?

 

[luthier93]

So then

Jehovah Witness are part of the Church as well then…

Mormon’s are potential believers you say,

Tell me what defines a believer?

A believer is one who “confesses with his mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in his heart that God raised Him form the dead.” This person has faith in God and His promise, and his actions show it (cf. James). Therefore, if a person is in a different church, that does not mean they cannot or are not saved (necessarily), though both Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons are not part of the church because they do not follow the teaching of the Bible. I, however, am not placed in a judgement position of who is saved. God knows that. There are also many disbelievers within the “Church” as well, who are simply pretenders. This was something that was even happening in Paul’s day.

 

[504Katrin]

Catholics…Mormons…Yehovas’ Witnesses… My Muslim neighbor put it best just yesterday

I skipped Kiddush in order to get home earlier and study, BUT my neighbor (Muslim family, from Turkey) who has a shop waved me in and asked me to take a cup of tea with him. This time I didn’t want to decline once again.

Me: “Over there the other shop used to belong to a muslim family also I believe. They’re very nice people. They live down that road over there…”

He: “They are Catholic I believe.”

Me: “CATHOLC MUSLIMS???”

He: “No, no not Catholic…what are they called…they’re from Syria…”

Me: “Coptic maybe…?”

He: “No, what are they called? They go over there to a church…”

Me: “Protestant???”

He: “No, …mmhhh…what are you people here in Europe called?”

Me: “Christians???”

He: “Yes! That’s it!” [smiles]



What’s the church? Followers of Christ I would say.

 

[chosen_people]

This is a thoughtful effort. The Israel created by the United Nations is not the Israel of the Bible.

The UN did not create God or the Jewish people or the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people including the Land of Israel, it did not create the 3500 year unbroken and unbreakable connection between the Jewish people and its homeland, it did not create the history of the Jewish people or live on the land or work the land or die defending it. Israel was not then, nor has it ever been, dependent on a decision of the UN for its re-independence. The only significance of the UN decision was recognition of the undeniable physical, moral and historical bond which has existed for thousands of years between the Jews and their homeland. However, even this recognition did not occur in the November 29, 1947 General Assembly decision but was made by the predecessor of the United Nations- the League of Nations decades earlier in granting the British Mandate for the purpose of helping to establish a homeland for the Jewish people (from which point on the British betrayed their Mandate and betrayed international law only to be stopped by the November 29, 1947 decision).

 

[CopticChristian]

Both comments I made were not doctrinal statements but rather explanations of th context in which I was using them. Therefore, it is not a contradiction. If I were making a doctrinal statement regarding what “Church teaching” is, that would be a different matter.
Paul says we can understand God’s word. Moses says we can understand God’s word. Jesus says we can understand God’s word. I do not need anyone to teach me that. I read it in the Scriptures and believe it to be true.

You did not answer where you obtained an understanding of what Paul is saying in Romans when quoting Deuterotonomy. If you were making a Doctrinal statement then where does this doctrine originate and formulated by who or what?

 

[CopticChristian]

Very nice outlook. Isn’t it true that God can use human agencies to bring about his plan (i.e., U.N., Babylon, Assyria)?

God did not need help to guide Israel in the Old Testament. I see no evidence of anyone other than God being ascribed as causing Isreal to be liberated, wander, punished, rewarded, etc.

To believe that we had to wait for the Protestant deformation/reformation, that gave rise to the invention of the Protocanonicals, that eventually evolved into Dispensational thinking, that caused British Evangelicals to influence the UN to create Israel is nonsense. God don’t need help to lead Israel. The tower of Babel is a good indication of that.

Israel of today is not the Isreal of the Bible.

 

[CopticChristian]

A believer is one who “confesses with his mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in his heart that God raised Him form the dead.” This person has faith in God and His promise, and his actions show it (cf. James). Therefore, if a person is in a different church, that does not mean they cannot or are not saved (necessarily), though both Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons are not part of the church because they do not follow the teaching of the Bible. I, however, am not placed in a judgement position of who is saved. God knows that. There are also many disbelievers within the “Church” as well, who are simply pretenders. This was something that was even happening in Paul’s day.

A believer is one who “confesses with his mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in his heart that God raised Him form the dead.”

are you kidding. You want me to believe that the Bible teaches this. Where in the Bible can you specifically point me to so that I have proof that the Bible teaches this?

The Mormons use the King James.
Jehovah Witness use the New World Translation Bible.

They follow teachings of the Bible just like you do. What makes your reading and interpreting any better than theirs?

 

[CopticChristian]

Catholics…Mormons…Yehovas’ Witnesses… My Muslim neighbor put it best just yesterday

I skipped Kiddush in order to get home earlier and study, BUT my neighbor (Muslim family, from Turkey) who has a shop waved me in and asked me to take a cup of tea with him. This time I didn’t want to decline once again.

Me: “Over there the other shop used to belong to a muslim family also I believe. They’re very nice people. They live down that road over there…”

He: “They are Catholic I believe.”

Me: “CATHOLC MUSLIMS???”

He: “No, no not Catholic…what are they called…they’re from Syria…”

Me: “Coptic maybe…?”

He: “No, what are they called? They go over there to a church…”

Me: “Protestant???”

He: “No, …mmhhh…what are you people here in Europe called?”

Me: “Christians???”

He: “Yes! That’s it!” [smiles]



What’s the church? Followers of Christ I would say.

You should dismiss yourself from this thread and get your information from your Muslim friend that satisfies you.

This is CAF, where if you look up to the left you will see…

To Explain and Defend the Faith.

What do you want, answers that please you or the truth?

 

[CopticChristian]

The UN did not create God or the Jewish people or the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people including the Land of Israel, it did not create the 3500 year unbroken and unbreakable connection between the Jewish people and its homeland, it did not create the history of the Jewish people or live on the land or work the land or die defending it. Israel was not then, nor has it ever been, dependent on a decision of the UN for its re-independence. The only significance of the UN decision was recognition of the undeniable physical, moral and historical bond which has existed for thousands of years between the Jews and their homeland. However, even this recognition did not occur in the November 29, 1947 General Assembly decision but was made by the predecessor of the United Nations- the League of Nations decades earlier in granting the British Mandate for the purpose of helping to establish a homeland for the Jewish people (from which point on the British betrayed their Mandate and betrayed international law only to be stopped by the November 29, 1947 decision).

John Nelson Darby, British Evangelicals, The League of Nations, The United Nations…I really don’t care who is responsible for creating what is not the Israel of the Bible.

Israel of today is not the Israel of the Bible.

 

[504Katrin]

You should dismiss yourself from this thread and get your information from your Muslim friend that satisfies you.

What an audacious remark.
And I won’t “dismiss” from any thread just because you might like me to leave.

This is CAF, where if you look up to the left you will see…

I am able to read and I am capable of knowing which site I’m reading. There’s no need to talk that derogatory!

To Explain and Defend the Faith.

What do you want, answers that please you or the truth?

Again…see above!

 

[CopticChristian]

What an audacious remark.
And I won’t “dismiss” from any thread just because you might like me to leave.

I am able to read and I am capable of knowing which site I’m reading. There’s no need to talk that derogatory!

Again…see above!

Well then,

Welcome to the CAF, where you will and should expect to get and explanation and defense of the Faith, without concession to Dispensational Protestant thinking.

 

[504Katrin]

Well then,

Welcome to the CAF, where you will and should expect to get and explanation and defense of the Faith, without concession to Dispensational Protestant thinking.

I’ve been on here for more than two years. Thank you, however, for your kind clarification and welcome wishes!

 

[chosen_people]

John Nelson Darby, British Evangelicals, The League of Nations, The United Nations…I really don’t care who is responsible for creating what is not the Israel of the Bible.

Israel of today is not the Israel of the Bible.

No matter how much evidence, no matter how remarkable, no matter how irrefutable there will always be those who deny God, who lie when it comes to Jews. The same Jewish scriptures that Christians believe hold 300 prophesies concerning the Christian leader, suddenly, to those Christians who deny the Jewish Jesus, become worthless, the words take on strange and different meanings, God’s promises become meaningless when it concerns the Jews.

On this forum we see posts where some feel, that it would be a “sin” (sic!) to lie to a Nazi about hiding Jews. This is Hellenistic paganism where the benefit of the individual (getting to Christian heaven) supersedes complicity in the death of other human beings. It is the full blown rejection of God and Torah, of the sanctity of life, of our responsibility toward our fellow man. One can not help but feel that if not for Jews being involved, perhaps those that believe it better not to lie or who waver as to the right answer, would have a different view.

We have a recent example involving a Coptic Christian. Coptic Christians are being massacred in Arab lands, their churches burned, their daughters kidnapped,forced converted and married to Muslims. (if this was happening to Jews we no doubt would be told that we are being punished for denying some non Jewish belief in contravention of the Jewish definition and concept of God).

A Coptic Christian posted an anti-Muslim video on YouTube (a video which has been falsely labelled as being the cause of Benghazi attacks on Americans and which has subsequently landed him in jail). Now when the backlash started and it became clear that this man was behind the video, what did he do? Did he state that the video was a reply to the injustices being done to Coptic Christians? Did he say “I as a Christian can not lie and it was I who made the video”? No he did not. Instead he made up a false persona of being Jewish and continued this falsehood and deceit by describing how Jewish investors had brought about the making of the video. In doing so he endangered Jews around the globe to try and protect himself.

In other words, Hellenistic Paganism. There’s quite a coalition of Hellenistic Pagans arranged against Jews and the Jewish State. Remarkably some even call themselves Christians.

They believe that the Jews are truly “exceptional”. As in, you shouldn’t lie "except about the Jews. So it’s okay to say that Israel is an Apartheid State or the Jews are committing genocide or ethnic cleansing or some other horrific lie, because it’s the Jews and the Jewish State. In one breath “the Jews” are complicit in the death of the Christian leader, “the Jews” must suffer and will suffer for rejecting the Christian leader as a god. In the next breath they will explain “the Jews” of today aren’t actually “the Jews”, the “Jewish State” and the “Jewish Homeland” is not actually the “Jewish Homeland” or the “Jewish State.” For the rest of us it doesn’t make any sense. Except to them and their “exceptional” Jews.

 

[CopticChristian]

No matter how much evidence, no matter how remarkable, no matter how irrefutable there will always be those who deny God, who lie when it comes to Jews. The same Jewish scriptures that Christians believe hold 300 prophesies concerning the Christian leader, suddenly, to those Christians who deny the Jewish Jesus, become worthless, the words take on strange and different meanings, God’s promises become meaningless when it concerns the Jews.

On this forum we see posts where some feel, that it would be a “sin” (sic!) to lie to a Nazi about hiding Jews. This is Hellenistic paganism where the benefit of the individual (getting to Christian heaven) supersedes complicity in the death of other human beings. It is the full blown rejection of God and Torah, of the sanctity of life, of our responsibility toward our fellow man. One can not help but feel that if not for Jews being involved, perhaps those that believe it better not to lie or who waver as to the right answer, would have a different view.

We have a recent example involving a Coptic Christian. Coptic Christians are being massacred in Arab lands, their churches burned, their daughters kidnapped,forced converted and married to Muslims. (if this was happening to Jews we no doubt would be told that we are being punished for denying some non Jewish belief in contravention of the Jewish definition and concept of God).

A Coptic Christian posted an anti-Muslim video on YouTube (a video which has been falsely labelled as being the cause of Benghazi attacks on Americans and which has subsequently landed him in jail). Now when the backlash started and it became clear that this man was behind the video, what did he do? Did he state that the video was a reply to the injustices being done to Coptic Christians? Did he say “I as a Christian can not lie and it was I who made the video”? No he did not. Instead he made up a false persona of being Jewish and continued this falsehood and deceit by describing how Jewish investors had brought about the making of the video. In doing so he endangered Jews around the globe to try and protect himself.

In other words, Hellenistic Paganism. There’s quite a coalition of Hellenistic Pagans arranged against Jews and the Jewish State. Remarkably some even call themselves Christians.

They believe that the Jews are truly “exceptional”. As in, you shouldn’t lie "except about the Jews. So it’s okay to say that Israel is an Apartheid State or the Jews are committing genocide or ethnic cleansing or some other horrific lie, because it’s the Jews and the Jewish State. In one breath “the Jews” are complicit in the death of the Christian leader, “the Jews” must suffer and will suffer for rejecting the Christian leader as a god. In the next breath they will explain “the Jews” of today aren’t actually “the Jews”, the “Jewish State” and the “Jewish Homeland” is not actually the “Jewish Homeland” or the “Jewish State.” For the rest of us it doesn’t make any sense. Except to them and their “exceptional” Jews.

*Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now? I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?

Thanks!

*maybe it’s just the protestants i know that think this way. **

Here is the original OP. Here your post goes far beyond what the OP asked.

Jews of the OT do not exist today. They are descendants. There is no temple. There are no animal sacrifices. Rabinic Judaism is not one thing and they disagree amongst each other as to the Israel of today being the Israel of the Bible. There is no consensus. Protestant thought is an invention of disobedient Catholics that spawned numerous forms of thinking that would include The Church of Ireland/John Nelson Darby/Dispensationalism and all the stuff that is taught by those that accept and believe this nonsense…read about this here…

etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/52/52-3/JETS%2052-3%20569-577%20Sweetnam-Gribben.pdf

Jews were chosen to be the light to other nations and to produce the messiah. Mission accomplished. What is it you want for Jews other than to recognize that if they were chosen, they were chosen for a purpose and that purpose was fulfilled. Be grateful to your ancestors. These ancestors you will read were stiff necked, hard hearted, disobedient, yet faithful to one God and from them we learned what happens when you are stiff necked, hard hearted, disobedient and faithful to one God.

Israel is not a religous state. The OT says, according to Moses that Israel will be a nation of priests…I don’t see that in the middle east, do you?

Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and [how] I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

What more do you want?

 

[chosen_people]

Here is the original OP. Here your post goes far beyond what the OP asked.

Jews of the OT do not exist today. They are descendants. There is no temple. There are no animal sacrifices. Rabinic Judaism is not one thing and they disagree amongst each other as to the Israel of today being the Israel of the Bible. There is no consensus. Protestant thought is an invention of disobedient Catholics that spawned numerous forms of thinking that would include The Church of Ireland/John Nelson Darby/Dispensationalism and all the stuff that is taught by those that accept and believe this nonsense…read about this here…

etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/52/52-3/JETS%2052-3%20569-577%20Sweetnam-Gribben.pdf

Jews were chosen to be the light to other nations and to produce the messiah. Mission accomplished. What is it you want for Jews other than to recognize that if they were chosen, they were chosen for a purpose and that purpose was fulfilled. Be grateful to your ancestors. These ancestors you will read were stiff necked, hard hearted, disobedient, yet faithful to one God and from them we learned what happens when you are stiff necked, hard hearted, disobedient and faithful to one God.

Israel is not a religous state. The OT says, according to Moses that Israel will be a nation of priests…I don’t see that in the middle east, do you?

What more do you want?

The Jewish people have been chosen by God to fulfill special missions. God chose the Jewish people to be His servant, His witness (Isaiah 43:10)'to be a light unto the nations as examples of ethics and holiness and to lead the world back to God (Exodus 19:6 and Isaiah 42:6) and to bring the Messiah ben David into the world (Jeremiah 23:5, 1 Chronicles 17:11-12).

1. The Torah and the prophets make clear that God will always preserve a faithful remnant of the Jewish people and that the covenant between God and the Jewish people is permanent; Genesis 17:17;Leviticus 26:44,45;Deuteronomy 4:27;7:6-9;Isaiah 54:10,17;59:21;Jeremiah 46:27-28;Malachi 3:6
2. The commandments of the Torah are Eternal:
   Genesis 17:9-10;Exodus 31:16;Deuteronomy 11:1;Deuteronomy 28:46;Deuteronomy 29:28;Psalm 111:7-9;2 Kings 17:37;Ezekiel 37:24-25;Malachi 3:22

3)The Torah will be in effect in the Messianic Age:
Ezekiel 37:25;Isaiah 2:3

God’s Torah is perfect:
Psalm 19:8-10

The Laws of the Torah may not be increased or decreased:
Deuteronomy 4:2;Deuteronomy 13:1 [12:32 in Christian bibles]

God will not change His mind:
Numbers 23:19-20;1 Samuel 15:29

The Jewish prophets have explicitly stated, in the Messianic Era, Gentiles will stop being blinded to the truth and realize they have inherited falsehood:

"Hashem (God) my Strength, my Stronghold and my Refuge on the day of distress! To You (God) nations will come from the ends of the earth and say: "It was all falsehood that our ancestors inherited, futility that has no purpose. Can a man make gods for himself - they are not gods! (Jeremiah 16:19-20)
יט יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי, וּמְנוּסִי–בְּיוֹם צָרָה; אֵלֶיךָ, גּוֹיִם יָבֹאוּ מֵאַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ, וְיֹאמְרוּ אַךְ-שֶׁקֶר נָחֲלוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, הֶבֶל וְאֵין-בָּם מוֹעִיל.
כ הֲיַעֲשֶׂה-לּוֹ אָדָם, אֱלֹהִים; וְהֵמָּה, לֹא אֱלֹהִים.

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes [in the Messianic Age] Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת

The Messiah ben David is by definition that man who fulfills all six of the criterion in the Jewish scriptures. From a Jewish perspective what makes Christian claims that Jesus was the Messiah ben David so remarkable, is that he did not fulfill a single one of the six criterion.

On the other hand, there is no concept in Judaism that faith in the Messiah ben David leads to personal salvation. There is not a single verse in the Torah or prophets that states or implies that belief in the Messiah ben David is required for or related to personal salvation. The salvation program for Jews is to love God, fear God and keep His commandments.

The six authentic Jewish Messianic criteria are:

1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and king Solomon
2. be anointed King of Israel
3. return the Jewish people to Israel
4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
5. bring peace to the world and end all war
6. bring knowledge of God to the world

We see that each of the six Jewish messianic criteria is empirically verifiable and therefore faith is not required to determine the identity of the Jewish Messiah ben David. We can see if the Temple has been rebuilt, if all the Jews have returned to Israel, if the entire world believes in God and follows Torah, if the entire world is at peace.

 

[CopticChristian]

The Jewish people have been chosen by God to fulfill special missions. God chose the Jewish people to be His servant, His witness (Isaiah 43:10)'to be a light unto the nations as examples of ethics and holiness and to lead the world back to God (Exodus 19:6 and Isaiah 42:6) and to bring the Messiah ben David into the world (Jeremiah 23:5, 1 Chronicles 17:11-12).

1. The Torah and the prophets make clear that God will always preserve a faithful remnant of the Jewish people and that the covenant between God and the Jewish people is permanent; Genesis 17:17;Leviticus 26:44,45;Deuteronomy 4:27;7:6-9;Isaiah 54:10,17;59:21;Jeremiah 46:27-28;Malachi 3:6
2. The commandments of the Torah are Eternal:
   Genesis 17:9-10;Exodus 31:16;Deuteronomy 11:1;Deuteronomy 28:46;Deuteronomy 29:28;Psalm 111:7-9;2 Kings 17:37;Ezekiel 37:24-25;Malachi 3:22

3)The Torah will be in effect in the Messianic Age:
Ezekiel 37:25;Isaiah 2:3

God’s Torah is perfect:
Psalm 19:8-10

The Laws of the Torah may not be increased or decreased:
Deuteronomy 4:2;Deuteronomy 13:1 [12:32 in Christian bibles]

God will not change His mind:
Numbers 23:19-20;1 Samuel 15:29

The Jewish prophets have explicitly stated, in the Messianic Era, Gentiles will stop being blinded to the truth and realize they have inherited falsehood:

"Hashem (God) my Strength, my Stronghold and my Refuge on the day of distress! To You (God) nations will come from the ends of the earth and say: "It was all falsehood that our ancestors inherited, futility that has no purpose. Can a man make gods for himself - they are not gods! (Jeremiah 16:19-20)
יט יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי, וּמְנוּסִי–בְּיוֹם צָרָה; אֵלֶיךָ, גּוֹיִם יָבֹאוּ מֵאַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ, וְיֹאמְרוּ אַךְ-שֶׁקֶר נָחֲלוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, הֶבֶל וְאֵין-בָּם מוֹעִיל.
כ הֲיַעֲשֶׂה-לּוֹ אָדָם, אֱלֹהִים; וְהֵמָּה, לֹא אֱלֹהִים.

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes [in the Messianic Age] Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת

The Messiah ben David is by definition that man who fulfills all six of the criterion in the Jewish scriptures. From a Jewish perspective what makes Christian claims that Jesus was the Messiah ben David so remarkable, is that he did not fulfill a single one of the six criterion.

On the other hand, there is no concept in Judaism that faith in the Messiah ben David leads to personal salvation. There is not a single verse in the Torah or prophets that states or implies that belief in the Messiah ben David is required for or related to personal salvation. The salvation program for Jews is to love God, fear God and keep His commandments.

The six authentic Jewish Messianic criteria are:

1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and king Solomon
2. be anointed King of Israel
3. return the Jewish people to Israel
4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
5. bring peace to the world and end all war
6. bring knowledge of God to the world

We see that each of the six Jewish messianic criteria is empirically verifiable and therefore faith is not required to determine the identity of the Jewish Messiah ben David. We can see if the Temple has been rebuilt, if all the Jews have returned to Israel, if the entire world believes in God and follows Torah, if the entire world is at peace.

So,

What form of Judaism do you represent that provides this interpretation?

Interpretation of OT/NT are through the OHCAC and differ.

The remnant, we believe, as taught by Paul in Romans are the diaspora that shall be brought into the fullness of Faith through the Church. That is my understanding.