Protestant view of Israel.

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history has demonstrated that in the name of religion people justify killing of one another!

indeed religion is the bane of humanity!

even people worshiping the same God, kill each other in His Name!

hence there is no case for religion, that is man-made for an ulterior purpose!
 
The “religious freedom” Christians have in Israel is rather limited. Christians face much persecution in Israel.
That’s interesting; I’ve had Christian and Muslim acquaintances who’ve been in Israel, and neither of them have had too many problems.

It’s true that there have been tensions between Orthodox Jews on the one hand, and Messianic Jews and Evangelicals on the other; incidents of open disrespect have also occurred. Generally, these occur where evangelism is an issue. The Holy Father has visited Israel himself, and the Israeli ambassador to the Vatican has spoken well of him. (Wikipedia has the usual Benedict-bashing, but Wikipedia is not a reliable source on this issue.)

These are not confined to Israel: incidents of church vandalism and statue-smashing occur in India as well! But if you gave me the choice between Israel and an Islamic country, I’d certainly have to opt for the former.
 
The Church is now the People of God and the New Israel but the Jews are still the Chosen People and the Olive Tree from which Holy Mother Church gains its sustenance, since Abraham is our Father of Faith and is invoked in the mass as such.

God does not revoke whatever he has chosen or promised.
This. The Jewish race are still the chosen people. God didn’t revoke that and hand it to us Catholics. Christians have been cleaved to the children of Israel (as adopted children), but the Jews weren’t kicked out of the equation.

Disclaimer - I’m Jewish by birth and ethnicity, though never really practicing. And I am now Catholic by Grace and the never-ending patience of the Holy Spirit who had to drag and nag me into my conversion experience over many, many years. But I’m proud to have Abraham’s blood in my veins, same as Jesus. It doesn’t make me any more special than other Christians, but it is kind of cool.

But basically, Evangelicals believe that when all Jews return to Israel, the end of the world will come quickly. And they are praying for that. I never got this - it will happen in God’s time and I don’t think he told us to work politically to speed him along. King of presumptuous, actually.
 
history has demonstrated that in the name of religion people justify killing of one another!

indeed religion is the bane of humanity!

even people worshiping the same God, kill each other in His Name!

hence there is no case for religion, that is man-made for an ulterior purpose!
1- totally unrelated to the topic

2- the desciples didn’t go around slaughtering people.
 
It is interesting that people are so supportive of Israel, especially considering that the rise of Israel has been accompanied by the simultaneous fall of Arab Christianity.
That is a laugh. Arab Christianity is being destroyed, not by Israel, but by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.
 
But basically, Evangelicals believe that when all Jews return to Israel, the end of the world will come quickly.
Actually, that’s a gross oversimplification of what some Evangelicals believe; and other Evangelicals, myself among them, don’t hold any form of those eschatogical beliefs.
 
Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot* of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now? I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?

Thanks!

*maybe it’s just the protestants i know that think this way.
Conquer,

This is a result of Protestant thought at its inception that gave rise to unbridled bible interpretation from which sprang forth Dispensational thought via John Nelson Darby and the Church of Ireland. This was popularized by the Scofield study bible and then disseminated throughout Protestant groups.

The United Nations, prompted by the impetus of British Evangelical Protestants that accepted this man made doctrine of Dispensationalism that teaches that Israel is dirt and must be a land, must be converted to usher in the return of Jesus is why the so called nation of Israel was born.

The Israel of the bible is people and with this thinking Israel is dirt…but it is not the Israel of the bible…because…if you check in with Exodus…19:6
3Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5‘Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”
You discover that the Israel/dirt is nothing close to being a holy nation and a kingdom of priests…on the other hand…the OHCAC is a kingdom of priests and a holy nation…a people…

This is trying to accomplish for God the work of God…it is a wild, nonsense filled eschatology that numbs the minds of many Protestants today.

There are two antidotes to this view…

Chilton…Days of Vengance…a book on the Postmillenial view

Rightly dividing the word of God…a Reformed dissection of the errors of Dispensational thought.

and of course realizing that this is not a true view and accepting that it is man made…
 
Well, I am not quite sure what you are asking and what is the crazy idea, so hopefully I can answer without being too confusing or stepping on your beliefs.
1, The Eucharist is definitely not the heart of Faith. The Eucharist is not a biblical ordinance, though some of it is grounded in biblical topics and as such may be good and useful. BUT…Faith in the Messiah is the only requirement for salvation and communion and other practices are only outward signs.
2, We do not ingest the blood of Christ when we take communion. Jesus told us simply to do it in his remembrance.
3, God said “the life is in the blood,” not “the blood is life.” The significance of this is that we must be respectful of blood (not eat it) because it carries life.
One last note: When we take communion, we are outwardly signifying that we are remembering the sacrifice of Messiah, and we are believers in Him. So, although we do not physically drink the blood of a descendant of Abraham (Messiah), we are spiritually joining ourselves to the family line of Abraham in our actions, and can therefore say that we are sharing (spiritually) in the life of Abraham’s descendants.
Hope that answers your question.
Luthier,

Do you accept this as odd for yourself…

You are on a CAF…answering a question for a Catholic…from a Protestant perspective. Is this making sense to you?
 
Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot* of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now? I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?

Thanks!

*maybe it’s just the protestants i know that think this way.
IMHO, Jesus was taking too long to return and the reason was probably because the Jews were in exile. Then, some of the Protestants got the idea that if the Jews returned to
the Land of Israel, just as Ezra did come ahead of the Jews in Babylon to prepare the way for Everlasting Righteousness, according to Daniel 9:24, Jesus would return faster. So, they started preaching towards that end. That’s why they hold today unto the pro-Israel/Jewish policy.

Now, regarding being the Catholics the continuation of the chosen people, as you suppose, the name is Replacement Theology, a Pauline policy to replace Israel with Christians. I believe that Paul was taken by the same spirit of the king of Assyria when he
conquered Israel, the Ten Tribes, and replaced them with Gentiles. Assyria succeeded because the Lord had rejected Israel for good, but not Judah (the Jews). The Ten Tribes got lost forever but the Jews were confirmed forever. That’s in Psalm 78:67-69.
 
IMHO, Jesus was taking too long to return and the reason was probably because the Jews were in exile. Then, some of the Protestants got the idea that if the Jews returned to
the Land of Israel, just as Ezra did come ahead of the Jews in Babylon to prepare the way for Everlasting Righteousness, according to Daniel 9:24, Jesus would return faster. So, they started preaching towards that end. That’s why they hold today unto the pro-Israel/Jewish policy.

Now, regarding being the Catholics the continuation of the chosen people, as you suppose, the name is Replacement Theology, a Pauline policy to replace Israel with Christians. I believe that Paul was taken by the same spirit of the king of Assyria when he
conquered Israel, the Ten Tribes, and replaced them with Gentiles. Assyria succeeded because the Lord had rejected Israel for good, but not Judah (the Jews). The Ten Tribes got lost forever but the Jews were confirmed forever. That’s in Psalm 78:67-69.
Shib,

You are correct in naming Replacement theology but wrong in attributing it to Catholic Theology. The word Superssesionism and Replacement Theology does not appear in any Church document.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

It is a thought process emenating out of Protestant thinking…
 
" NovusAugustus:
It is interesting that people are so supportive of Israel, especially considering that the rise of Israel has been accompanied by the simultaneous fall of Arab Christianity.
That is a laugh. Arab Christianity is being destroyed, not by Israel, but by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.
Quite right! The reason so many of us support Israel is because they’re the only kids left on the block. Lebanon refuses to take a census because their political positions are still given to a majority of Christians, based on the census of 1911 (if memory serves). Everybody knows that Lebanon is majority Moslem nowadays. Outside of Lebanon, the only country in the Middle East with a sizeable Christian minority is Egypt. And just look what’s happening to our Christian brothers in Egypt (who make up no more than 10% of the population of 70 odd million).

Quite frankly, Islam is a violent religion. In 2011 there were 150,000 Christians who were martyred for the Christian faith. The majority of these were killed by Moslem terrorists in Africa. The Arab Spring is the bane of Christians in the Middle East. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Christianity can be practiced without persecution. Unless you count Cyprus and Armenia… not exactly what people think of as the Middle East.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Our enemy is clearly Islam, because they are responsible for the majority of the deaths of the 150,000 Christian martyrs in 2011 . So, our ally is necessarily Israel, who is fighting on the front lines against Islam.
 
This. The Jewish race are still the chosen people. God didn’t revoke that and hand it to us Catholics. Christians have been cleaved to the children of Israel (as adopted children), but the Jews weren’t kicked out of the equation.

Disclaimer - I’m Jewish by birth and ethnicity, though never really practicing. And I am now Catholic by Grace and the never-ending patience of the Holy Spirit who had to drag and nag me into my conversion experience over many, many years. But I’m proud to have Abraham’s blood in my veins, same as Jesus. It doesn’t make me any more special than other Christians, but it is kind of cool.

But basically, Evangelicals believe that when all Jews return to Israel, the end of the world will come quickly. And they are praying for that. I never got this - it will happen in God’s time and I don’t think he told us to work politically to speed him along. King of presumptuous, actually.
some believe that the end of the world will not take place unless and until the gospel is preached to all peoples!
 
some believe that the end of the world will not take place unless and until the gospel is preached to all peoples!
Wise,

Some believe that the Israel/Dirt is the Israel of the Bible and they are wrong…Moses said so and Peter confirmed this…
3Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5‘Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”
Thus said Moses…
4As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”
4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
9But **you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, **so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
Thus said Peter…and Christians share in the Priesthood of Christ…we are all priests…Israel is a people and not dirt…
 
and the Israel/dirt is not a kingdom of priests and a Holy Nation…🤷
I agree, the state of Israel is not biblical Israel!

so much disagreement on that within Christendom, so where do we turn to on questions like these 🤷 …The pillar and bulwark of the…

A lot of disagreement within rabinical Judaism today as well, I know nkusa is big on spelling out Zionism is not Judaism, I agree

Just thought the video was interesting 👍

nkusa.org/
 
I always tend to bring up the Hebrew Catholics…Hebrewcatholic.org.

Their thinking reflect Coptic Christians. They prefer to be called ‘Hebrew’, because the essence and aim of Israel was to be the land of God’s chosen people who had faith and refused idolatry.

So the land essentially is depend on faith in God, although, humanly speaking, it has to have geographical boundaries.
 
I always tend to bring up the Hebrew Catholics…Hebrewcatholic.org.

Their thinking reflect Coptic Christians. They prefer to be called ‘Hebrew’, because the essence and aim of Israel was to be the land of God’s chosen people who had faith and refused idolatry.

So the land essentially is depend on faith in God, although, humanly speaking, it has to have geographical boundaries.
KG,

If Israel is a spiritual Kingdom and Christ is the head…are there boundaries?
 
I read this article by Monsignor Pope, www.theLightisON.org, from the Archdiocese of Washington (DC). It is dated Nov 25, 2012…‘Why the Modern View of Revelation May Be Flawed’.

This view is reflected in a course my friends were able to continue on, the Book of Revelations, by Dr Scott Hahn. I asked about it at the end of their course, college level, and they told me that in this study Revelation is already completed in Christ’s earthly mission, and that He continues His divine mission in the Church through the Mass and sacraments.

What Monsignor says here is that what has not been completed in his understanding of revelations at this time…is Christ returning in glory on the clouds.

This article seems to repeat the perception of Israel more as entity of people not apostasizing, people who have remained devout to God through salvation history.

I read somewhere that Israel means ‘those who seek the Truth’.

Zionists are seculars. And yes, they have allowed Muslims to build mosques in front of the Church of the Nativity. One Christmas day, the Christians came out of Mass to find Muslims prostrate as they pray with the mineret blaring across the street…right in front of the church door and had to walk around them.

The Church is the fulfilled temple based on the very life and nourishment of Christ Himself to us in the Word and Eucharist.

Likewise, the Catholic Church in essence is mystical, not geographical or defined by church buildings or the buildings at the Vatican.
 
Coptic Christian,

In regards to your question, wouldn’t you say each diocese has its own boundaries??

In regards to modern day Israel, the nuns told us in grade school…this is the 50’s, man, that ‘the Bible said the Jews would return to Israel some day’, and they are still working out its boundaries.

The Hebrew Catholics believe some day, and Scripture says the conversion of the Jews is reserved for the Last Days, that they will be of great help to us some day…
 
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