Protestant view of Israel.

[Dolezal]

Do,

How do you get revoked out of faded?

I think you are confusing the covenant of Abraham with the covenant of Moses. I refer to the Mosaic covenant. We agree that the Abrahamic covenant has not been revoked but fulfilled, it has become the new covenant.

To revoke means to annul. I interpret Scripture according to the teaching of the Church. The Church has always taught that the covenant of Moses is revoked, annulled, abolished. Most recently, with the approval of the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops removed this heretical statement from the The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults: “Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.”

 

[chosen_people]

The “religious freedom” Christians have in Israel is rather limited. Christians face much persecution in Israel.

That is absolutely incorrect both from a legal and factual basis.

 

[CopticChristian]

I think you are confusing the covenant of Abraham with the covenant of Moses. I refer to the Mosaic covenant. We agree that the Abrahamic covenant has not been revoked but fulfilled, it has become the new covenant.

To revoke means to annul. I interpret Scripture according to the teaching of the Church. The Church has always taught that the covenant of Moses is revoked, annulled, abolished. Most recently, with the approval of the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops removed this heretical statement from the The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults: “Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.”

Do,

My post #52 explains the Mosaic covenant. How is it you believe I am confused?

 

[Shibolet]

---

Christ Conquers
New Member Join Date: August 27, 2012
Location: US
Posts: 41
Religion: Triditional Catholic

Protestant view of Israel.

Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot* of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now?

I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?

Jharek, I have a question for you. The poster above, “Christ Conquers” is a Traditional Catholic. As you can see, he adopts the policy that the Catholic Church is the continuation of God’s Chosen People. Is his opinion the same as yours? If it is, Replacement Theology is also part of Catholic teaching. I can’t see it under any other way.
Unless you succeed to show me otherwise.

 

[Shibolet]

Shib,

You are correct in naming Replacement theology but wrong in attributing it to Catholic Theology. The word Superssesionism and Replacement Theology does not appear in any Church document.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

It is a thought process emenating out of Protestant thinking…

Okay CC, isn’t the NT a Church document? The most important document in my opinion. What is the Catholic teaching about where salvation comes from to Mankind? From Jesus
right? Right. Now, would you please read John 4:22? Jesus himself declared that salvation comes from the Jews. Focus that he said “from the Jews” and not from one among the Jews. Who replaced the Jews as a People by one in particular? That’s replacement Theology.

 

[Shibolet]

KG,

I agree.

Catholic Christianity is pretty Jewish if you look at the OT foreshadowed the New…

Paul,it is said did not so much undergo a conversion as the scales fell from his eyes to see the OT as seen in the proper light…and thus he explains it…

The NT contains explanation and quotes of the NT with a different understanding.

The sin offerings by the Levites/Temple were replaced by One offering/One Priest

The Passover meal foreshadowed the Mass.

Circumcision foreshadowed Baptism

The people of God are the people of God…

The essence of the Kingdom is based on the Kingdom of Israel…

King of Israel…David wanted to be priest King…Jesus is Priest/King

Queen Mother/Mary

Chief Steward/Pope holding the keys…

The Jews of the Old Covenant foreshadowed the New Covenant…

We are pretty Jewish if you ask me…

Hey CC, I hope Jharek read this post of yours above because he said that Replacement Theology has no place in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Every single statement of yours in this post is a promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

 

[CopticChristian]

Hey CC, I hope Jharek read this post of yours above because he said that Replacement Theology has no place in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Every single statement of yours in this post is a promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Shib,

Is a butterfly a replacement of the cocoon?

 

[Shibolet]

Shib,

Is a butterfly a replacement of the cocoon?

Interesting question but it has nothing to do with Replacement Theology.

 

[billt9]

Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot* of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.​

Well, speaking only for this Protestant, the Jews were, are, and always will be God’s chosen people; God doesn’t chose and then unchose.​

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now? I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?​

All Christians are now part of God’s chosen people because by God’s grace we have been adopted in to the chosen people – grafted on to that root as Paul said – by faith in Christ

 

[CopticChristian]

Christ Conquers;10062380:

Hey Everyone,
I’ve been curious as to why a lot* of Protestants seem to be really into the country/people of Israel. I’m assuming this is because they are (they were?) the chosen people.​

Well, speaking only for this Protestant, the Jews were, are, and always will be God’s chosen people; God doesn’t chose and then unchose.​

Can anyone explain why they think of them as so important now? I mean, aren’t Catholics really the continuation of the chosen people?​

All Christians are now part of God’s chosen people because by God’s grace we have been adopted in to the chosen people – grafted on to that root as Paul said – by faith in Christ

Bill,

Dispenationalism is why some Protestants cling to the notion that Israel is dirt.

Concerning chosen. The tribe of Judah/Jews were the chosen because of the lion of the tribe of Judah for which they were chosen to produce. They were chosen. The chosen produced the lion. The lion was rejected by some and accepted by others. Recall that first century Jews were not 100% in rejection.

The issue of who is chosen now…Peter here echoes Exodus…Moses saying that Israel would be a holy nation and kingdom of Priests…

9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

and as I understand it Peter was from the tribe of Judah…

 

[KathleenGee]

I went through our catechism the other night.

There are many symbols of the Church that include the title of Jerusalem that also is likewise used at different layers of meanings and time.

The Jews are considered God’s chosen people and always will be.

But Coptic Christian’s new post again reflects the nature and mission of Israel…that its inhabitants are those who have faith in God, reject idolatry, and seek to live a holy life with Him. This goes back to the Hebrew Catholics not calling themselves Jewish Catholics but Hebrew Catholics…Hebrew being the name used to refer to the devout Jews.

The first Christian Church, along with the Messiah/Savior, was Jewish.

The Mass fulfills the ancient daily sacrifice.

We as Catholics do not believe practicing, ‘I believe Jesus is Lord and Savior, therefore I am saved.’ We believe that our life is a walk in conversion, that we fall into sin just like the ancient Jews did, but the Lord awaits us in confession.

The daily sacrifice of the Mass atones for sins committed by both devout and non-devout every hour of the day in all parts of the world to atone for the sins being committed today. Subsequently, the Mass fulfills Melchizedek’s prophecy that there would come a perfect perpetual sacrifice.

The Messianic Jews have the same problems you see in Protestantism, because they lack ecclesial authority with diversity of opinions.

 

[october_baby]

Well it’s important to differentiate mainline Protestants from Evangelicals. Mainline Protestants like Lutherans generally do not have an extensive attachment to the modern State of Israel.

Modern Evangelicals do because they are convinced modern Israel is of importance in End Times prophecy (dispensationalism gives Israel a central focus). Israel is not considered the Church, but the Jewish people.

The birth of Israel in 1948 was a signal to most Evangelicals that the End Times might be near. That’s why many watch it closely today.

could not have put it better myself.

 

[Shibolet]

Jharek, tell me somehting, if you don’t mind. Do you believe everything the book of Hebrews say? Obviously. Take a look at Hebrews 7:12,22. “When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of the Law.” That’s verse 12. Then in verse 22 it says that Jesus became the guarantee of a better covenant. A better than which covenant? A change of what Law? Can you give me an answer to those two verses without incurring in Replacement Theology? No trick here. I am just trying to see if there is anything between Catholicism and the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

 

[luthier93]

Luthier,

Do you accept this as odd for yourself…

You are on a CAF…answering a question for a Catholic…from a Protestant perspective. Is this making sense to you?

God does not see religion-he sees faith. The same truths are true no matter your perspective of Christianity.

 

[JustaServant]

Jharek, tell me somehting, if you don’t mind. Do you believe everything the book of Hebrews say? Obviously. Take a look at Hebrews 7:12,22. “When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of the Law.” That’s verse 12. Then in verse 22 it says that Jesus became the guarantee of a better covenant. A better than which covenant? A change of what Law? Can you give me an answer to those two verses without incurring in Replacement Theology? No trick here. I am just trying to see if there is anything between Catholicism and the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

You know what I find interesting?
Your “sudden” appearence on CAF at the same time as the sudden “disappearence” of another poster, also claiming to be Jewish, also using the phrase “replacement theology”, a term coined by evangelicals.
Very curious…

 

[CopticChristian]

God does not see religion-he sees faith. The same truths are true no matter your perspective of Christianity.

Lut,

Now from my side of the street Faith is a gift…grace precedes Faith…and that Faith is animated by grace…

Now from your side of the street you know what God sees based on what?

 

[luthier93]

Lut,

Now from my side of the street Faith is a gift…grace precedes Faith…and that Faith is animated by grace…

Now from your side of the street you know what God sees based on what?

Coptic Christian-
I understand that you may view it as such. However, it is very clear in the Bible that faith is what saves. Grace does not save, but is rather given to one is saved through faith.
cf. Matthew 9:2 where Jesus Christ says that the paralyzed man’s sins are forgiven because of faith. There are many other instances also.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic Christian-
I understand that you may view it as such. However, it is very clear in the Bible that faith is what saves. Grace does not save, but is rather given to one is saved through faith.
cf. Matthew 9:2 where Jesus Christ says that the paralyzed man’s sins are forgiven because of faith. There are many other instances also.

Lu,

What is clear is that you are taking the Bible and suggesting what it means. Whatever it is you read and find instances of it is your interpretation and what you see. You have not told me how you know what God sees.

 

[KathleenGee]

In the universal Catholic faith, it is not just reading the Bible.

We come directly to Jesus, our faith is ministered to us by Jesus, both in Word and Sacrament.

You have the bible, you have to work so hard to believe Christ will heal you of something, Christ will truly forgive you, Christ is physically present with you, Christ is present to teach you, to strengthen you.

What I describe here is that Christ is present in the tabernacle, the sanctuary lit to show He is present. He waits for us to visit Him. He is the same God Who led the Jews out of Egypt, and Who comes to us as nourishment from Christ, the Tree of Life, and the Life of the Church in the Eucharist.

He strengthens and confirms us in the sacrament of Confirmation, He heals us and absolves us in confession, He is the center of our marriage, and the reflection we see in our spouses, He is the one Who ministers the last rites, so we are connected to Him physically, soul, and mind and heart, ready to finally be with Him in heaven. We are taught by Him in our teachings and directions in how to live our faith in the contemporary world, and we have our catechism that explains in depth the 10 commandments.

We as Catholics truly know the Lord is our Shepherd.

 

[billt9]

billt9;10094995:

"Bill,

Dispenationalism is why some Protestants cling to the notion that Israel is dirt."

I don’t even know what dispenationalism means

I agree God chose a people not dirt. (and now “graciously” chooses us Gentiles too through faith in Christ)

But the OT teaches me that God promised those chosen people that chosen dirt forever. Is that promise no longer valid?

PS. I don’t think that means we/I/the US are God’s instrument to carry out that promise; God will work that out. The US is not God’s chosen people/land.

But the US also should act responsibility in secular matters, and I personally think that includes supporting the only democracy, the only county with any semblance of religious freedom, the only country that honors free speech, and the only country not dedicated to exterminate its neighbors, in that part of the world.