Protestant View of Mariology

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Stilldreamn said:
As I said, I was out of it; but at one point I opened my eyes to see one of the nursing sister’s face above me. She had her hands around around mine, with a small figurine of the Virgin cupped in my own hands. She was saying earnestly “You are going to be OK now, you are going to be well. Keep Her with you.”
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Stop that… you’re making me tear up. :bighanky:

Thank you for sharing that!
 
Aidan,
I recently was baptized into the Catholic church on Easter Vigil, but before that I grew up a Baptist my whole life.

For me and the community that I grew up in, the “view” of Mary was very limited. She only had a simple part to play in the Christmas story and maybe again when Christ was hanging on the cross - that’s it. I was always taught that Catholics were wrong by praying to Mary because they were basically worshipping her. That’s all I knew of Mary when I was a protestant and beyond that I didn’t give her much thought.

Because of that, on my journey home to the Catholic church, embracing Mariology was a big hurdle for me. But one night, on my knees, I said, “Lord, please open my eyes and help me to understand your mother’s place in my life.” I felt like He said to me, “Just talk to her and find out what happens!” So I said my first Hail Mary and from that point on, Mary, the Mother of God, welcomed me with her open arms, met me where I was at. All of the misconceptions and unfounded ideas I had about Christ, Mary, and our Church fell away as I sought the face of our Lord and His Mother.

I hope that helps! Many Blessings to you!
Loreen
 
LoreenBernadett said:
Aidan,
I recently was baptized into the Catholic church on Easter Vigil, but before that I grew up a Baptist my whole life.

For me and the community that I grew up in, the “view” of Mary was very limited. She only had a simple part to play in the Christmas story and maybe again when Christ was hanging on the cross - that’s it. I was always taught that Catholics were wrong by praying to Mary because they were basically worshipping her. That’s all I knew of Mary when I was a protestant and beyond that I didn’t give her much thought.

Because of that, on my journey home to the Catholic church, embracing Mariology was a big hurdle for me. But one night, on my knees, I said, “Lord, please open my eyes and help me to understand your mother’s place in my life.” I felt like He said to me, “Just talk to her and find out what happens!” So I said my first Hail Mary and from that point on, Mary, the Mother of God, welcomed me with her open arms, met me where I was at. All of the misconceptions and unfounded ideas I had about Christ, Mary, and our Church fell away as I sought the face of our Lord and His Mother.

I hope that helps! Many Blessings to you!
Loreen
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What a wonderful testimony. My friend from Daily Mass was a convert from the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, and struggled deeply with Mary issues for what she was taught about Catholics idolizing her etc.
 
LoreenBernadett said:
Aidan,
I recently was baptized into the Catholic church on Easter Vigil, but before that I grew up a Baptist my whole life.

For me and the community that I grew up in, the “view” of Mary was very limited. She only had a simple part to play in the Christmas story and maybe again when Christ was hanging on the cross - that’s it. I was always taught that Catholics were wrong by praying to Mary because they were basically worshipping her. That’s all I knew of Mary when I was a protestant and beyond that I didn’t give her much thought.

Because of that, on my journey home to the Catholic church, embracing Mariology was a big hurdle for me. But one night, on my knees, I said, “Lord, please open my eyes and help me to understand your mother’s place in my life.” I felt like He said to me, “Just talk to her and find out what happens!” So I said my first Hail Mary and from that point on, Mary, the Mother of God, welcomed me with her open arms, met me where I was at. All of the misconceptions and unfounded ideas I had about Christ, Mary, and our Church fell away as I sought the face of our Lord and His Mother.

I hope that helps! Many Blessings to you!
Loreen
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Thank you for this testimony. Overcoming veneration of saints and especially Mariology is the biggest hurdle keeping me out of the CC. Can you explain to me what changed after your prayer?
 
dronald said:
Thank you for this testimony. Overcoming veneration of saints and especially Mariology is the biggest hurdle keeping me out of the CC. Can you explain to me what changed after your prayer?
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Take your time and pray on it and I will pray for you as well. And when you overcome such a hurdle, you will embrace your Mother as Jesus did.

God Bless you.
 
dronald said:
Thank you for this testimony. Overcoming veneration of saints and especially Mariology is the biggest hurdle keeping me out of the CC. Can you explain to me what changed after your prayer?
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Hi, dronald…I ran into this story yesterday:

chnetwork.org/2013/05/a-catholic-seed-sewn-conversion-story-of-vicki-hassessian/

This is the part of her struggel on Mary and the saints:

*Back to Mary

Some of my hurdles were communication with the saints and purgatory, but I struggled with the concept of Mary most of all. Studying commentaries on Hebrews 12:1 helped me to understand that we indeed could ask the saints to intercede for us. My understanding of purgatory came while reading Dr. Scott Hahn’s book Signs of Life: 40 Catholic Customs and Their Biblical Roots, but no matter what I read or how much I prayed to understand the Church’s teaching about Mary, I remained unconvinced.

One day, I saw someone set a bouquet of flowers in front of our Lady’s statue in church. After Mass, I rushed home to write to Priscilla, the mentor I had been given by the Coming Home Network, that I had witnessed proof that the Church allowed the worship of Mary! She wrote back and gently asked me, “Vicki, would it be worshipping your mother if you put flowers on her grave? Aren’t you just saying to her that you remember her and that you love her?” I knew she was right. I brought Mary my first bouquet a few days later, set it in front of her statue, and wept. I finally understood that the statues were not idols, but they were like the pictures I have on the wall. They remind us to emulate them as they point the way to Jesus. The saints were my family.

The straw that broke the camel’s back occurred a few weeks later. I was continuing to attend Protestant services with my husband on Saturday nights. The pastor was talking about the fact that, as Christians, we need to love each other. He closed his sermon with these words: “Suppose I am the new pastor at your church. You come to my house for a visit. We’re all seated in the living room and you say to me, ‘We just love you pastor! Your sermons are wonderful, your children are fantastic, and we even love your dog! But your wife…we really don’t care for her too much.’ How do you think I would feel about you then? Wouldn’t it be difficult for me to treat you with Christian love if I knew that you hated my wife?” At that moment I began to cry because for the first time I could understand how Jesus must feel when we speak ill of or treat His mother with contempt, with rudeness, with indifference. From that day I have embraced our Lady as my own. My love for her continues to grow, and my devotion deepens every day.*
 
JonNC said:
From my perspective, properly understood, all mariology
is or should be christogical.
Jon
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Absolutely because it is about Jesus because she leads us to Him and she herself will tell the same thing.
 
pablope said:
Hi, dronald…I ran into this story yesterday:

chnetwork.org/2013/05/a-catholic-seed-sewn-conversion-story-of-vicki-hassessian/

This is the part of her struggel on Mary and the saints:

*Back to Mary

Some of my hurdles were communication with the saints and purgatory, but I struggled with the concept of Mary most of all. Studying commentaries on Hebrews 12:1 helped me to understand that we indeed could ask the saints to intercede for us. My understanding of purgatory came while reading Dr. Scott Hahn’s book Signs of Life: 40 Catholic Customs and Their Biblical Roots, but no matter what I read or how much I prayed to understand the Church’s teaching about Mary, I remained unconvinced.

One day, I saw someone set a bouquet of flowers in front of our Lady’s statue in church. After Mass, I rushed home to write to Priscilla, the mentor I had been given by the Coming Home Network, that I had witnessed proof that the Church allowed the worship of Mary! She wrote back and gently asked me, “Vicki, would it be worshipping your mother if you put flowers on her grave? Aren’t you just saying to her that you remember her and that you love her?” I knew she was right. I brought Mary my first bouquet a few days later, set it in front of her statue, and wept. I finally understood that the statues were not idols, but they were like the pictures I have on the wall. They remind us to emulate them as they point the way to Jesus. The saints were my family.

The straw that broke the camel’s back occurred a few weeks later. I was continuing to attend Protestant services with my husband on Saturday nights. The pastor was talking about the fact that, as Christians, we need to love each other. He closed his sermon with these words: “Suppose I am the new pastor at your church. You come to my house for a visit. We’re all seated in the living room and you say to me, ‘We just love you pastor! Your sermons are wonderful, your children are fantastic, and we even love your dog! But your wife…we really don’t care for her too much.’ How do you think I would feel about you then? Wouldn’t it be difficult for me to treat you with Christian love if I knew that you hated my wife?” At that moment I began to cry because for the first time I could understand how Jesus must feel when we speak ill of or treat His mother with contempt, with rudeness, with indifference. From that day I have embraced our Lady as my own. My love for her continues to grow, and my devotion deepens every day.*
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Nice:)
 
jrtrent said:
As the earthly mother of Jesus, highly favored of God and used in bringing forth our Lord in a miraculous way, Mary is to be respected and honored. I do not believe in the immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, or assumption of Mary. I do not believe she can hear our prayers or in any way mediate for us with God. However, she is, as Elisabeth said, blessed among women, and as Mary said, “he that is mighty hath done to me great things,” and “from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”
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So, you believe that Mary was a sinner, who had other children after giving birth to God…OK.

All sinners (past, present and future) are subject to satanic/demonic attacks, and therefore could possibly go to hell due to said sin. In your opinion, would that same logic apply to Mary the mother of God, since you believe her to have been a sinner as well? That was a question I had asked myself long ago…
 
pablope said:
Hi, dronald…I ran into this story yesterday:

chnetwork.org/2013/05/a-catholic-seed-sewn-conversion-story-of-vicki-hassessian/

This is the part of her struggel on Mary and the saints:

*Back to Mary

Some of my hurdles were communication with the saints and purgatory, but I struggled with the concept of Mary most of all. Studying commentaries on Hebrews 12:1 helped me to understand that we indeed could ask the saints to intercede for us. My understanding of purgatory came while reading Dr. Scott Hahn’s book Signs of Life: 40 Catholic Customs and Their Biblical Roots, but no matter what I read or how much I prayed to understand the Church’s teaching about Mary, I remained unconvinced.

One day, I saw someone set a bouquet of flowers in front of our Lady’s statue in church. After Mass, I rushed home to write to Priscilla, the mentor I had been given by the Coming Home Network, that I had witnessed proof that the Church allowed the worship of Mary! She wrote back and gently asked me, “Vicki, would it be worshipping your mother if you put flowers on her grave? Aren’t you just saying to her that you remember her and that you love her?” I knew she was right. I brought Mary my first bouquet a few days later, set it in front of her statue, and wept. I finally understood that the statues were not idols, but they were like the pictures I have on the wall. They remind us to emulate them as they point the way to Jesus. The saints were my family.

The straw that broke the camel’s back occurred a few weeks later. I was continuing to attend Protestant services with my husband on Saturday nights. The pastor was talking about the fact that, as Christians, we need to love each other. He closed his sermon with these words: “Suppose I am the new pastor at your church. You come to my house for a visit. We’re all seated in the living room and you say to me, ‘We just love you pastor! Your sermons are wonderful, your children are fantastic, and we even love your dog! But your wife…we really don’t care for her too much.’ How do you think I would feel about you then? Wouldn’t it be difficult for me to treat you with Christian love if I knew that you hated my wife?” At that moment I began to cry because for the first time I could understand how Jesus must feel when we speak ill of or treat His mother with contempt, with rudeness, with indifference. From that day I have embraced our Lady as my own. My love for her continues to grow, and my devotion deepens every day.*
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This has been helpful. 🙂 I do want to venerate Mary and give honor to her as she is the one full of grace who bore God our Savior. But I do get nervous about overstepping veneration and attributing to her what only belongs to God.
 
gcnuss said:
I recognize Mary as a supreme example of faith, allowing herself to be used by God to bring his son into this world. She is the Mother of God. For this, we cannot help but honor her.

With regard to the Immaculate Conception, I am certain that God made sure that Mary was a fit vessel to bear his son. How or when that was accomplished I do not know.

With regard to Mary’s perpetual virginity, I go along with Luther for whom it was an article of faith. That said, if incontrovertible proof were to arise that Mary had other children, it would not diminish my respect for her in any way. Note – I don’t expect that to happen.

With regard to the Assumption, again I go with Luther in believing that Mary is in heaven although I cannot know just how she arrived there.
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👍
 
Likewise…this reflection on Mary also reflects authentic faith…we cannot find man made answers to that which is of divine, especially the manner in which our Lord came into this world.

It is God’s call, not ours, how He designs.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtrent
As the earthly mother of Jesus, highly favored of God and used in bringing forth our Lord in a miraculous way, Mary is to be respected and honored. I do not believe in the immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, or assumption of Mary. I do not believe she can hear our prayers or in any way mediate for us with God. However, she is, as Elisabeth said, blessed among women, and as Mary said, “he that is mighty hath done to me great things,” and “from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”
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U-huh…and many Christians say:

I do not believe in Hell, I do not believe in the Devil, I do not believe in demons,etc,etc.

Guess what? Your lack of belief changes ZILCH.
 
EIF5A said:
This has been helpful. 🙂 I do want to venerate Mary and give honor to her as she is the one full of grace who bore God our Savior. But I do get nervous about overstepping veneration and attributing to her what only belongs to God.
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Take baby steps…you already took one step withou realizing it…your desire to give her honor for bearing Jesus…so give or say a simple thank you for that.

Let me share portions of Dr. Hahn’s apprehensions too with you:

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m1/sctcnv.html

*But something happened along the way, actually two things.

First, I began to pray a rosary. I was very scared to do this. I asked the Lord not to be offended as I tried. I proceeded to pray, and as I prayed I felt more in my heart what I came to know in my mind: I am a child of God. I don’t just have God as my Father and Christ as my brother; I have His Mother for my own.

A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.” *
 
aidanbradypop said:
I am not interested in Luther’s or Calvin’s view so please do not make this thread another Luther bashing one! Thanks 👍 I would like to know your personal opinion of Mariology?

For me, the Blessed Virgin Mother holds a dear place in my heart.
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My personal belief is that most, if not all, of the special Marian teachings that came out of Europe are not the result of divine revelation or apostolic tradition with any real ties to Palestine; rather, it is fueled by the presuppositions and expectations of a people-group steeped in monarchy that has a history of taking their royalty far too seriously and then transferring some of those things to their theology. As an American without any strong ties to royal tradition, even via the churches I’ve been a part of, there is some groundwork that’s different for me than it is for someone steeped in Catholicism. I will explain.

God the Father and Jesus His Son are both equated with kings. To me, there’s nothing objectively kingly about God- He is all-powerful, though, and to a certain type of people-group a king is the most powerful thing they know about. It’s easy to transfer every detail of royal family life to your understanding of God if that is what you’re accustomed to, but I am not accustomed to that. Therefore, for me, it is equally easy to say that calling God a king (or the King of Kings) only means He is powerful at a level beyond anything that humans have ever come up with. If the Bible had been produced by Romans from Italy, we just might refer to God as the Caesar of Caesars. But it wasn’t them, so it is what it is.

What this means is God doesn’t automatically fit easily and perfectly into any and all like/as illustrations that involve royalty. It means there isn’t a royal family, and we shouldn’t just assume there’s a royal court. God is powerful, and that is all. Kings have nothing to do with me, so it’s easy for me to say that. Beyond the all-powerful thing, there is God and then there is everyone else.

Which brings us to Mary. Is she really part of everyone else? Well, yes, and that’s not disrespectful. I don’t approach this with “proper level of Marian respect” as my starting point. The starting point is God, then the king/royalty thing, then the idea that King means Powerful and the rest of the monarch-court-setup package is left out and does not apply. Isn’t Mary a queen? Isn’t she a part of a royal heavenly family? No, she’s not, and it’s not because I don’t like her. It’s because there’s God and then there’s everyone else, and the full package of expectations generated by Europe’s strong history of strongly centralized government are improperly transferred to expectations of what a heavenly court is supposed to look like.

This has implications concerning…well, every Marian teaching, I think. Seems like all of them are driven by the expectation that the Mother of a King should be a certain way, especially if she’s going to be worthy to sit on her Throne. And in response to this, I must gently remind you that Mary is the mother of God, not really the mother of a King in any sense except that He is omnipotent and kings give us an awfully imperfect and insufficient comparison. And finally, the position/identity of a king’s mother doesn’t necessarily have any bearing at all on the position/identity of God’s mother. It’s not the same thing.
 
Monergistic said:
It means there isn’t a royal family, and we shouldn’t just assume there’s a royal court. God is powerful, and that is all. Kings have nothing to do with me, so it’s easy for me to say that. Beyond the all-powerful thing, there is God and then there is everyone else.
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The only way for a Christian to hold this position is if he dismisses the entirety of the OT, which is steeped in royal imagery.
 
Monergistic said:
That is why God is so often referred to as King. I am aware of this. That’s pretty much the only thing I was talking about.
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Don’t forget the royal court that is mentioned in so many places in the OT. And that includes a Queen mother, and a royal steward, who is the keeper of the keys.
 
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