If you can’t answer it yourself, why can’t you?
I always thought this forum was about learning the catholic faith? Well, that was why I came here long ago…I have provided reasons and I did not refer to any catholic dogmas. Just logical reasoning for the most part. I even attempted to explain by avoiding catholic language e.g. the word spouse. For you, to be one’s spouse is impossible without carnal relations. Why that is I simply do not know. Clearly you will not change your mind, so it seems kind of pointless to go on. Therefore Mary absolutely could not be identified as the spouse of the HS. We have reached an impasse that would require one of us to concede, but that is never gonna happen. By definition a spouse has to do with a marriage or union. Nothing about carnal relations.I can say the same to the Catholics who wouldn’t listen to the Orthodox reason for objection. It seems that any valid reason we have are simply rejected because its dogma, no reason can ever overthrow it
But the Orthodox reason is valid. I wouldn’t have become Orthodox is it weren’t. If you do not want to accept it, it is fine. I’m not here to convince you**, I am here to only present what the Orthodox belief.** A belief in the IC is a defiance of the Orthodox Christian faith according to the teaching of the Fathers.
Indeed.I always thought this forum was about learning the catholic faith? Well, that was why I came here long ago…I have provided reasons and I did not refer to any catholic dogmas. Just logical reasoning for the most part. I even attempted to explain by avoiding catholic language e.g. the word spouse. For you, to be one’s spouse is impossible without carnal relations. Why that is I simply do not know. Clearly you will not change your mind, so it seems kind of pointless to go on. Therefore Mary absolutely could not be identified as the spouse of the HS. We have reached an impasse that would require one of us to concede, but that is never gonna happen. By definition a spouse has to do with a marriage or union. Nothing about carnal relations.
A problem is that it isn’t against the Fathers according to Archbishop Kallistos. I would suggest that people read him as have more cred on Orthodox belief. He’s been at it far, far longer. Or try the writings of Fr Lev Gellet.
Yup…case closed…
No this is not the proper way to see it. Each Church, Catholic and Orthodox possesses great treasures, saints and if I can say continuing a great witness to truth. The problem as I see it is this. We need to stop for awhile to understand the other. The Orthodox own a great analogy of witness and experiences that can fill up any library. The problem for the West as it is in the East is they keep only to one library, their own. If we only will take the time to know each other. What can’t both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church decide finally to accept each other by admitting not to change whatever what the other knows. We must show this respect by acknowledging we do not really know what the other cherishes because of what teachings that are dear to them. May be it will be easier for East and West to first acknowledge the right for the other to be. And then to acknowledge it is even more the right for us not to change the other. We have inherited a great witness from the past. Let us be aware that each Church’s teachings was important for them to pass on to each generation. It is to my observations we need not to change the other. Probably that was our mistake in thinking our unity should be based upon.
I love Met. Kallistos too, but consider that he is also open to women’s ordination. Do you really want to take all of his theological opinion as Orthodox teaching?
Well, I’ve never said Mary isn’t glorified. The Orthodox objection to Marian dogmas is when the dogmas make Mary something separate from the rest of us human. She is our hope, so if she is getting something that is a single privilege, where is our hope there?
Do you want to be spoonfed everything?
He did write two apologetics against Gentiles and Jews, so I cannot see why not. How can you even make this claim if you even haven’t read his work?
Then I have nothing to give you. Because all I have is what I learned from my readings, so they are Patristic teachings, not my own.
I would be respectful of his opinion and open to hearing more of it from him. He is learned, knows what he talks about, and is also a seasoned hierarch of the church. That sets him apart, and suggests that his thinking should not be dismissed lightly. And I would read the Lev Gillet article
Why was Mary privileged and blessed enough (as opposed to the rest of man/woman kind) to be assumed bodily, as per the OC? It certainly makes Mary something separate from the rest of us human.
Just give me the synopsis of how you would answer an atheist who poses this question to you. Perhaps you are on an airplane and discussing your faith and you have no other source to use, save for your own catechesis.Do you want to be spoonfed everything?
He did write two apologetics against Gentiles and Jews, so I cannot see why not. How can you even make this claim if you even haven’t read his work?
Then I have nothing to give you. Because all I have is what I learned from my readings, so they are Patristic teachings, not my own.
Oh, he is one of the greatest minds of our time. But even with that, we can’t just take everything he says. Besides, he is just one bishop in the Orthodox Church. He can have his own opinions as long as they are not heretical. But they are still just opinions.
We all will be assumed at some point at the end of ages. So it is not a single privilege because we’re getting that as well. The whole point of the tradition of the Dormition in the Orthodox faith is to tell us that look, Christ is God and He could resurrect himself. But here is a humble human being like the rest of us, and God has resurrected her and glorified her. Our hope then is that this is the goal of our lives. Like the Theotokos, we too shall be resurrected by Christ and glorified in heaven.Why was Mary privileged and blessed enough (as opposed to the rest of man/woman kind) to be assumed bodily, as per the OC? It certainly makes Mary something separate from the rest of us human.
It is a single privilege because she gets something no one else gets upon their demise: a glorified body. Mary is the only Christian that gets her glorified body immediately. That fact separates her from the rest of us.
What I learned from Orthodoxy answers a lot of the questions I have, including “why do bad things happen to good people” and why are people born with abnormalities, even why are people born gay.
We all will get a glorified body.
