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Stilldreamn
Guest
Briefly, I would say that Christ’s death was sacrificial, and we share in it through Baptism (regeneration) and the Eucharist.
Pardon the inadequacy of my answer, but I’m not a scholar, just a humble believer.
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Pardon the inadequacy of my answer, but I’m not a scholar, just a humble believer.
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LegoGE1947
Guest
During my time as an evangelical I felt not sure of it VERY OFTEN. I lost count of the “altar calls” I responded to because every time I heard an especially stirring “fire and brimstone” sermon it tripped something emotional inside that said, “Go forward and pray.” I’ve even been “rebaptized” 2 or 3 times. Then I discovered what I was “feeling” was NOT the Holy Spirit but the promptings of a very gifted, charisma-filled preacher that got me all worked up emotionally. Since becoming Catholic I don’t have those emotional ups and downs. I know I’ve latched on to something solid and I absolutely can trust God for my eternal salvation rather than emotions that are all over the charts. (That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!)
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LegoGE1947
Guest
We could create a denomination that teaches that. We could call it “Sewism” and the creed of it could be “As you sew, so shall you reap!”
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Luvtosew
Guest
Man if I could sew my way to salvation that would be well great, but I don’t think so, I do hope I can sew in heaven tho.We could create a denomination that teaches that. We could call it “Sewism” and the creed of it could be “As you sew, so shall you reap!”
Jesus gave his body and shed his blood on the cross for our salvation and we need to believe and put our faith in him and commit our lives to him and follow him, and know that I can do nothing without him, nor can I do anything to save myself on my own.
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batman1973
Guest
Yeah. It’s that easy. And It’s also in the Bible. Mormons, JW’s, and other cults(No, The RCC is not a cult, just clarifiying here) are also confounded about how easy salvation is. Getting salvation is easy. But, we are also to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. I’m a Protestant who doesn’t believe in the “Once Saved, Always Saved.” You have to maintain salvation, through sincere repentace, prayer, and study of the Word. Church attendance is good, cause you can fellowship with other saints, receive teachings, and partake of communion. I should also add, that good works are not required for salvation. The good works that we do, as James stated, is to show our faith. “An attitude of gratitude”, if you will.
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Lochias
Guest
You have your religion listed as “Follower of Christ”, while the vast majority of Catholics here just call themselves “Catholic” in some way, shape or form. I just assumed, which is something I’ll be more careful of in the future.
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Lincoln7
Guest
Hi Sllhouette,
Here the differing views are seen…
The sacrifice of Christ on Calvary, from a Protestant perspective is that it was once for all, in accordance with Heb 7:27, Heb 9:12, Heb 9:28, Heb 10:10…
It seems clear to me the clarity of the NT on this matter, that the sacrifice needs no repetition, as it has once for all been offered, “For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.” Heb 10:14 ESV. They are perfected, clothed in his righteousness which is theirs by faith. “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV.
As for the aspect of Penal Substitution, I see it there. It is certainly held to by most protestants, well, the ones I know anyhows! It was a once for all sacrifice in which The Lord “bore the chastisement that brought us peace.” Isaiah 53:5 ESV. In context I see the whole suffering servant passage describing the Messiah suffering on behalf of his people, bearing wrath for their sake, “it was the will of the LORD to crush him” Isaiah 53:10 ESV.
Peace
Lincs
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andrewstx
Guest
Lincoln, it seems you have the idea that Catholics re-sacrifice Jesus over and over in the Mass.Hi Sllhouette,
Here the differing views are seen…
The sacrifice of Christ on Calvary, from a Protestant perspective is that it was once for all, in accordance with Heb 7:27, Heb 9:12, Heb 9:28, Heb 10:10…
It seems clear to me the clarity of the NT on this matter, that the sacrifice needs no repetition, as it has once for all been offered, “For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.” Heb 10:14 ESV. They are perfected, clothed in his righteousness which is theirs by faith. “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV.
As for the aspect of Penal Substitution, I see it there. It is certainly held to by most protestants, well, the ones I know anyhows! It was a once for all sacrifice in which The Lord “bore the chastisement that brought us peace.” Isaiah 53:5 ESV. In context I see the whole suffering servant passage describing the Messiah suffering on behalf of his people, bearing wrath for their sake, “it was the will of the LORD to crush him” Isaiah 53:10 ESV.
Peace
Lincs
That is simply not true, but myth perhaps from anti-Catholic predjudice.
There is a sentence in the liturgy of the anglican/Catholic chruch that makes it clear.
“Who made there by his one sacrfice of himself, once offered, a full, complete, and sufficient sacrifice for the sins of whole world”.
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
All Catholics are followers of Christ
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Roy5
Guest
It seems to me that evangelical Protestants and many mainline Protestants would think similarly to Catholics when it comes to the atonement. The sacrifice of Christ atoned for our sins. There would be a different emphasis in implementing this belief. Protestants would place less emphasis upon what they call works, meaning mainly the sacraments. They would say that a simple faith in Jesus, a personal relationship with Christ based upon this faith, is the key to salvation.
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However, there are many mainline Protestants who differ from this interpretation. They would see the sacrifice of Christ more as a symbol of suffering humanity. They would tend to look warily at the very concept of God willfully having his only Son crucified. It can seem so cruel and gross and unnecessary. God surely could have found a way that would involve less violence and injustice.
Then, too, when you think of it, in three days Jesus would rise from the grave and soon return to be ruler of the universe with his Father in heaven. His suffering was brutal, and in a sense he represents unjust suffering in the world - whether in Stalin's Siberia, Hitler's ovens, slavery through the ages, etc. All a bit mysterious and much more. The traditional Christian notion that God required a human sacrifice can sound very pagan and primitive to many liberal Protestants. They see Christ mainly as the personification of God, God incarnate if you will, who brought us the truth, who gave us a courageous example as he battled legalism, hypocrisy, prejudice, etc. He served as a window which presented God as one of love, mercy and justice, unlike the legalistic and often wrathful Jehovah of the Old Testament. The idea that God provided his son as a sacrificei to make up for our sinful nature caused by Adam's fall - all that doesn't make sense theologically, morally, or logically.
One important difference among Protestants, then, is that there are a variety of views when it comes to Christ's sacrifice. I suggest that such differences exist among Catholics, too, but the Church has a specific doctrinal framework which all real Catholics must accept. Mainline Protestants permit a wider variety of opinions. Many Catholics of a more intellectual bent have abandoned Catholicism because they can no longer adhere to some of its teachings.
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peace2u2
Guest
As we approach Holy Week. . . I think we should reflect on your beautiful words. Thanks for the post. Your words remind me of this song by a contemporary Christian group,
Sidewalk Prophets. The song, You Love Me Anyway, is perfect too as we approach Holy Week to reflect as we listen:
You Love Me Anyway Lyrics by Sidewalk Prophets:
The question was raised
As my conscience fell
A silly, little lie
It didn’t mean much
But it lingers still
In the corners of my mind
Still you call me to walk
On the edge of this world
To spread my dreams and fly
But the future’s so far
My heart is so frail
I think I’d rather stay inside
But You love me anyway
It’s like nothing in life that I’ve ever known
Yes, You love me anyway
Oh Lord, how You love me
How You love me
It took more than my strength
To simply be still
To seek but never find
All the reasons we change
The reasons I doubt
And why do loved ones have to die?
But You love me anyway
It’s like nothing in life that I’ve ever known
Yes, You love me anyway
Oh Lord, how You love me
I am the thorn in Your crown
But You love me anyway
I am the sweat from Your brow
But You love me anyway
I am the nail in Your wrist
But You love me anyway
I am Judas’ kiss
But You love me anyway
See now, I am the man who yelled out from the crowd
For Your blood to be spilled on this earth shaking ground
Yes then, I turned away with this smile on my face
With this sin in my heart tried to bury Your grace
And then alone in the night, I still called out for You
So ashamed of my life, my life, my life
But You love me anyway
It’s like nothing in life that I’ve ever known
Yes, You love me anyway
Oh Lord, how You love me
You love me, yes You love me
How You love me
How You love me
How You love me
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CopticChristian
Guest
So you say that salvation is because of thinking, admitting, following and worshipping…then these are all things I do…
I use my thoughts and mind to think. I do that.
I choose and admit or deny. I do that.
I follow or do not follow. I do that.
I worship or do not worship. This is a choice. I do that.
so what I do causes salvation?
I am the cause of my salvation by my actions?
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Lincoln7
Guest
Hi andrewstx, welcome to the discussion.
My emphasis there was the completed nature of the Sacrifice upon Calvary. Forgive me if i was not as clear as i hoped to be
It was once for all. It perfected people Heb 10:14. Hebrews speaks of the old sacrificial system in Chpt 10:1-9, making specific reference of this repeated system; ‘it can never… make perfect those who draw near’ Heb 10:1 ESV. This is contrasted strongly with Christ’s one sacrifice which does.
Thus from the Protestant perspective there is no need to ‘re-present’ the sacrifice of Christ. It was offered once for all. It perfected for all time those who are sanctified. If it has to be re presented then I find it difficult to see where the once for all time perfection Hebrews speaks of was…
Peace
Lincs
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
For like the 3rd time, I was stating what Protestants have told me.So you say that salvation is because of thinking, admitting, following and worshipping…then these are all things I do…
I use my thoughts and mind to think. I do that.
I choose and admit or deny. I do that.
I follow or do not follow. I do that.
I worship or do not worship. This is a choice. I do that.
so what I do causes salvation?
I am the cause of my salvation by my actions?
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LegoGE1947
Guest
Well, some “Catholics” are not really. They just think they are!:sad_yes:All Catholics are followers of Christ
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Lochias
Guest
Indeed!All Catholics are followers of Christ
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peace2u2
Guest
good point. And why bother asking God to forgive you when you have sinned?
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peace2u2
Guest
Yes, may we never forget what He did for us. Either Pope Benedict said the following or Pope John Paul II, “We are all unique and unrepeatable”.As I understand it the above explanation accounts for why Catholics depict Christ as on the Cross rather than an empty cross like Protestants do. Catholics depict Christ as on the Cross to show us what God had to suffer to save us. Catholics believe that Christ is risen but show Him on the Cross as a reminder of how much God values each one of us and was willing to do so we could be saved. Please correct me if I’m wrong! Thanks.
And so is Jesus.
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peace2u2
Guest
:harp:
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peace2u2
Guest
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