Protestant view on christ's sacrifice.

[CopticChristian]

For like the 3rd time, I was stating what Protestants have told me.

Agree or disagree that based on what Protestants have told you that what you have written infers that one who does this is the cause of their salvation?

 

[Lincoln7]

Greetings

“Would this not imply it didn’t perfect them for all time?” as to this question, mankind was dead in the water, the gates of heaven were closed. no-one could acheive nor did acheive heaven before Christ Crucified, not Mose’s not Elijah not no-one. Christs blood spilled payed the price of mans Original Sin [Isaiahs prophecy 700 years earlier] and opened the gates of heaven, so you could obtain eternal salvation. And you obtain this salvation by doing exactly as Jesus states, pick up your Cross and follow me.

I concur of course that without the finished work of Jesus Christ none could be right with God.

I do disagree that Christ’s death only paid the price for mans original sin however. It was for all mans sins. The Augsburg Confession puts it well - “For Christ’s passion was an oblation and satisfaction, not for original guilt only, but also for all other sins, as it is written to the Hebrews 10:10”(1)

Hebrews 10:12: But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God

The verse indicates that the atonement was for all sins of the elect; past, present and future. Not just for original guilt, but for all sins.

Tis sacrifice perfects them: “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.” Hebrews 10:14.

One sacrifice for all sins, a sacrifice which perfects them for all time.

Christ Crucified bought eternal salvation, but its not, He died and you can live as you please and “Thanks Jesus” I’ll see you when I get there after having my share of this physical world.

Agreed. For a dead faith is not a saving faith. Justification by faith alone, with good works following after as a result of this.

So the question is; How do you obtain Eternal Salvation? Christ did not do that for you already, he Saved man dead in the water. He gave you the opportunity to do as He did and save your Soul through Him. By Him living in you, just as St Paul states. It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in I. Or I am a prisoner of Jesus Christ what are you a prisoner of?

St Paul is perfect example of a Soul who strives on the path. Run the Race, Finish the Course. What race what course? Wait this sounds like work, what is Paul talking about? What does Christ mean pick up you Cross and follow me? What Cross? How do you do that?

I think the Hebrews passages above demonstrate Christ did effectually save his elect. They are perfected for all time. They display that they are justified and in dwelt by the Holy Spirit in their lives. See the 1689 Baptist confession here for example on saving faith-1689 LBC: Chapter 14: "Of Saving Faith"
The Heidelberg Catechism here - wts.edu/resources/creeds/heidelberg.html
Questions 21 and 62 & 63. Works follow our justification but this in slightly off topic I think…

Peace and thanks for the discussion

Lincs

(1) - bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php#article24

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well of course I disagree and would revert to.

This is talking about Jewish priests before the coming of Christ

Hebrews 9:7-14

“7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshipper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.”

Note, 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order. Until Christ came
Catholic priests are not Jewish priests.
Christ established the new priesthood and the new covenant

“The One that offers Sacrifice is the same One who, after having sacrificed himself on the Cross…to obtain for us eternal redemption…offers Himself now by the ministry of the priest; there is no difference except in the manner of offering.” [Council of Trent, S. 22, c.2] “For in it Christ perpetuates in an unbloody manner the sacrifice offered on the Cross, offering Himself to the Father for the world’s salvation through the ministry of priests.” [Vatican 2 Documents.9:3]
“The Eucharistic Sacrifice is the source and summit of the whole of the Church’s worship and of Christian life. The faithful participate more fully in the sacrament of thanksgiving, propitiation, petition and praise not only when they wholeheartedly offer the sacred Victim, and in it themselves to the Father with the priest, but also when they receive this same Victim sacramentally.” [Vatican 2 Documents :9]

“The faithful are gathered by the preaching of Christ’s Gospel and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated, ‘so that through the Body and Blood of the Lord the whole brotherhood is united…Christ is present, by whose power the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church is united. For the partaking has no less an effect than to change us into what we have received.’” [Vatican 11.9:7. Constitution of the Church, n.26] “But union with Christ…is not to be limited to the duration of the celebration of the Eucharist; it is to be prolonged into the entire Christian life…(as) a continual thanksgiving under the Holy Spirit and may produce fruits of greater charity.” [Vatican 11.9. iii. 38]

From there CCC the Mass.

 

[asd72]

Hi again

Hebrews 10:14: For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Why must it be re presented?

Also, yes: “Worthy receivers, outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this ordinance, do then also inwardly by faith, really and indeed, yet not carnally and corporally, but spiritually receive, and feed upon Christ crucified, and all the benefits of his death; the body and blood of Christ being then not corporally or carnally, but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance, as the elements themselves are to their outward senses.” - vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc30.html

Forgive slow responses… I made the mistake of participating in 2 threads at the same time

Lincs

Jesus at the last supper instructed the disciples to “do this in memory of me”. The Jewish notion of a memorial is not looking back and remembering. It means ‘making present’ an event. Re-presenting is another way of saying ‘making present’.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

It is interesting to see that the Catholics in this thread, whilst talking amongst themselves, have completely missed what the protestants participating in this thread have said.

The question was how do Protestant’s view Christ’s sacrifice. The answer was that many of us (but not all) believe basically the same thing that Catholics believe. That his sacrifice was so perfect that only the one was required. That his sacrifice created a path to salvation for all. That faith and works are required to partake of that salvation.

The differences are semantics. Honestly, sometimes we can get so caught up in looking for differences that we miss the commonalities.

 

[CopticChristian]

It is interesting to see that the Catholics in this thread, whilst talking amongst themselves, have completely missed what the protestants participating in this thread have said.

The question was how do Protestant’s view Christ’s sacrifice. The answer was that many of us (but not all) believe basically the same thing that Catholics believe. That his sacrifice was so perfect that only the one was required. That his sacrifice created a path to salvation for all. That faith and works are required to partake of that salvation.

The differences are semantics. Honestly, sometimes we can get so caught up in looking for differences that we miss the commonalities.

Semantics makes all the difference in the world. What I call something and believe something to be causes me to act in certain ways. The words that I speak come out of that understanding so that when we dialogue the words that I speak may means something different to you because of how you understand them. You are correct.

Jesus used semantics. Who do you say I am? Jesus asked for the words that conveyed the understanding of what it was they believed.

No one, not even the greatest saint, was in a position to take upon himself the sins of all humanity and to offer himself in sacrifice “for all.” Only Jesus Christ was capable of that, because, though true man, he was the Son of God, of the same being with the Father. For this reason the sacrifice of his human life had an infinite value. The subsistence in Christ of the divine Person of the Son, who transcends and at the same time embraces all human persons, makes possible his redemptive sacrifice “for all.” “Jesus Christ was worth all of us” writes St. Cyril of Alexandria (cf. In Isaiam 5, 1: PG 70, 1176). The same divine transcendence of the person of Christ enables him “to represent” all humanity before the Father. This explains the “substitutive” character of Christ’s redemption in the name of all and for all. “He won for us justification by his most holy passion on the wood of the cross,”

Do you agree with the above?

 

[Lincoln7]

Hi Mr.Taylor,

This is talking about Jewish priests before the coming of Christ

Indeed in context the author of Hebrews is contrasting the repetitive sacrifice of the Jewish system with the once for all offering of Christ.

Chapter 10:3 - “But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.” The Greek word here; “anamnēsis”, a remembering or a recollection.

Every year the people would witness the sacrifice and remember their sins, be conscious of them as it says in 10:2. This sacrificial system… “it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.” Heb 10:1.

It never made them perfect.

This is so strongly contrasted with Christ. Again 10:14 - “For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”

If the sacrifice must be ‘re presented’ it tells us that it never perfected anyone.

“anamnēsis”, a ‘remembering or a recollection’ is used in other places; 1 Corinthians 11:24.
“Do this in remembrance of me”

In the new covenant the sacrifice was once for all sins, a perfecting sacrifice. In the new covenant we don’t remember our sins when we recall this sacrifice, like those who were under the old covenant did. But remember instead remember the Saviour who dealt with them once for all on the cross. This is the Protestant perective.

The ESV study bible sums it up nicely: “Believers look to Christ and not to themselves for a cleansed conscience, full forgiveness of sins, and total flawlessness in the future.” (1)

If a sacrifice must be ‘re presented’, then it never perfected anyone surely?

Peace, apologies for my delayed response

Lincs.

(1) - ESV study bible, Crossway 2010, pg 2377

 

[GaryTaylor]

Indeed in context the author of Hebrews is contrasting the repetitive sacrifice of the Jewish system with the once for all offering of Christ.

Correct which is replaced with the New and Everlasting Covenant the Body of Blood of Christ for the “forgiveness” of sins as St Paul confirmed in 1 Corinthians 27-29

Remembering the Cross is worship.

Chapter 10:3 - “But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.” The Greek word here; “anamnēsis”, a remembering or a recollection.

Remember sins is contrary to the forgiving of them and unChristian. Remembering Christs sacrifice on this Holy Week for 2000 years is Tradition of the Apostolic Churchs. Whats the purpose you repeat the Institution in your Church which you affirmed you do?

As Jesus states in John 6 there is “No Life” without observing the New and Everlasting Covenant.

Every year the people would witness the sacrifice and remember their sins, be conscious of them as it says in 10:2. This sacrificial system… “it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.” Heb 10:1.

Worshipping Christ and the Mysterys of the Bible has nothing to do with the other, you seem to have this confused with remembering sins, as you put it. Sins are forgiven, Christ on the Cross remembered.

They remember Christ abundant spilling of His Blood that cleansed the world for their sin, the Blood which one drop of, demons flee from. However Christianity was not taken back in time to before Adam and Eve ate of the fruit to be like Gods.

It never made them perfect.

We still arn’t perfect not one.

Exactly thats why we practice the faith weekly because their is no perfect on Earth, there’s just a walk toward higher virtues given by Gods Grace though living in a State of sanctifying Grace. The Sacraments of the church are a path of sanctifying grace for us which are practicing. Now to those who found perfection out here in another manner we say AMEN.

Which is why you walk toward the Cross in the church from the front door foward. That is you walk in life toward the Cross.

This is so strongly contrasted with Christ. Again 10:14 - “For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”

There is no perfect on earth, are you suggesting you don’t sin and reached perfection? How do you pray for forgiveness, how are your sins forgiven? The church is a church of sinners.

If the sacrifice must be ‘re presented’ it tells us that it never perfected anyone.

Has nothing to do with Gods perfection has to do mans inferior state of subjection to this land of Exile, Valley of Death. With a path established by Chirst called the New and Everlasting Covenant so Sins are Forgiven. So you may journey the ladder of ascending by descending as Christ and Mary among other have done in example.

“anamnēsis”, a ‘remembering or a recollection’ is used in other places; 1 Corinthians

Used in many places.

11:24.
“Do this in remembrance of me”

Right so that sins may be forgiven:thumbsup:

In the new covenant the sacrifice was once for all sins, a perfecting sacrifice…

All mans past transgressions as Isaiah describes, why do men become Baptised?

In the new covenant we don’t remember our sins when we recall this sacrifice, like those who were under the old covenant did. But remember instead remember the Saviour who dealt with them once for all on the cross. This is the Protestant perective.

Repeating, remembering sins in not the point, remembering the Lord emptied himself for man to open the gates of heaven, and mans past transgressions is whats remembered, for giving life in death.

The ESV study bible sums it up nicely: “Believers look to Christ and not to themselves for a cleansed conscience, full forgiveness of sins, and total flawlessness in the future.”

Amen I would hope all Christians do. What do you do with your sins? Because you surely commit them:shrug:

If a sacrifice must be ‘re presented’, then it never perfected anyone surely?

Sacrifice of what? Chirsts death is re-represented in memory of his sacrifice. You seem to have this confused with man committing sin, and the Covenant to the forgiveness of sin, you are repeating.

Peace

 

[peace2u2]

There is a Protestant hymn that goes “Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain. He washed it white as snow.!” Also some pentacostals teach that Jesus suffered for our sins and our sicknesses. “By His Stripes We are Healed.”

This Protestant hymn you mention is taken from Sacred Scripture:

Isaiah 1:18

Come now, let us set things right, says the LORD: Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow; Though they be crimson red, they may become white as wool.

Psalm 51:9

Cleanse me with hyssop, that I may be pure; wash me, make me whiter than snow.

:bible1:

 

[peace2u2]

Here so all can follow along with Bible study 101 Your making me work now And thats the KJV thats 100 lashes for using that in that CC

1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

17Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

21For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

33Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

34And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come

Nice work Brethren!

 

[peace2u2]

: I dont have a catholic bible and like I said RCIA does not start until August and I am trying to learn as much as I can.

Your in my prayers and welcome. The doors that lead to the fullness of God’s truth is always open. . .

A great Bible to learn about the truth is titled, Ignatius Catholic Study Bible New Testament, 2nd EditionThere is an introduction, commentaries and notes by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch.

Good luck! :bible1::shamrock2:

 

[peace2u2]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say mick321?

As to the New Evangelization it has nothing to do with Protestants or anyone else. Its about Catholic’s re-educating themselves in their own Faith. So why Jimmy Akins would be relevant to anything is beyond me?

Peace

Gary, yes I found mick321’s post confusing.

I would like to point out to mick321 (I couldn’t pull up your quote, that is why I’m putting it with Gary Taylor’s)

mick321 
Your quote:

Jimmy Akins wrote a book called “Mass Confusion” about confusion about the liturgy. But he really needs to write one about what the “New Evangelization” means and doesn’t mean.

Your post is misleading. The following is a description of that book Mass Confusion by Jimmy Atkin

Jimmy Akin has distilled a mountain of liturgical documents and official church pronouncements to produce straightforward answers to common (and not-so-common) questions. Here is a book powerful enough to silence personal misrepresentations of the Church’s liturgical law.

Perhaps you didn’t read the book. And if you did, perhaps his new book would help dispel your myths:

Mass Appeal: The ABC’s of Worship At last! A concise, informative explanation of the Mass in just 32 pages. Revised For The New Mass Translation by Jimmy Atkins.

The description of the book says:

Jimmy masterfully walks you through the Mass from beginning to end, explaining precisely what is happening and – more importantly – why. In the end you’ll see – perhaps for the first time – precisely how all the pieces of the Mass fit together to create a single, coherent whole.

Peace to U

 

[Lincoln7]

Mr Taylor, forgive me if my meaning was unclear.

I shall try and put it in a more basic form:

The once for all death of Jesus on the cross has dealt fully with sin. “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit” 1 Peter 3:18. Christ was a substitute in place of the elect.

“For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:21. Christ having paid the price. In him, we are clothed with his righteousness, imputed to us, as a free gift of Gods grace; “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

The sacrifice on Calvary perfected people as Heb 10:14 states. It didn’t make perfection possible, but it actually perfected people.
It dealt with all their sins, both past, present and future: “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,” Hebrews 10:12. One single offering to the Father, which dealt with all sins, for all time.

As such any need to re present this sacrifice on behalf of the people, any need for a re application of this propitiatory sacrifice means that one is saying it did not perfect them in the first place. Which I see as being in contrast to the message, and indeed the purpose of the passages quoted in Hebrews.

Jesus sacrifice perfected, once for all time, those who are sanctified. A re application of it means one is saying it didn’t perfect?

There is no perfect on earth, are you suggesting you don’t sin and reached perfection?

I am a sinner. I do still sin, after all: “If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:10. But the cross of Calvary, Jesus Christs sacrifice on my behalf has paid for that sin. A debt I can never hope to pay on my own accord. I must look to Christ alone. I beg him for his mercy, and the cross tells me I’m forgiven, once for all.

So to answer your question:

How do you pray for forgiveness, how are your sins forgiven?

I pray for forgiveness, I ask God in his mercy to forgive me, which he does, after all; “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. This forgiveness comes as the penalty was paid by Jesus, Gods justice and wrath against sin satisfied by the cross.

Christs righteousness imputed to the believer. They are holy in Gods sight: “let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Hebrews 10:22. ‘clean from an evil conscience’; looking to the cross, the believer knows his sins are dealt with, once for all.

Yes I still sin. I trust Christ alone, for salvation, his work on my behalf upon Calvary, and his constant intercession for believers in heaven: “Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.” Hebrews 7:25. He saves to the uttermost, a single perfecting work for them, once for all. He now sits at the right hand of God. Those who are in him, he always makes intercession for.

Peace sir.

I hope this clarifies my position.

Lincs.

*All scripture quotes taken from the English Standard Version.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Mr Taylor, forgive me if my meaning was unclear.

I shall try and put it in a more basic form:

The once for all death of Jesus on the cross has dealt fully with sin. “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit” 1 Peter 3:18. Christ was a substitute in place of the elect.

“For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:21. Christ having paid the price. In him, we are clothed with his righteousness, imputed to us, as a free gift of Gods grace; “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

The sacrifice on Calvary perfected people as Heb 10:14 states. It didn’t make perfection possible, but it actually perfected people.
It dealt with all their sins, both past, present and future: “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,” Hebrews 10:12. One single offering to the Father, which dealt with all sins, for all time.

As such any need to re present this sacrifice on behalf of the people, any need for a re application of this propitiatory sacrifice means that one is saying it did not perfect them in the first place. Which I see as being in contrast to the message, and indeed the purpose of the passages quoted in Hebrews.

Jesus sacrifice perfected, once for all time, those who are sanctified. A re application of it means one is saying it didn’t perfect?

I am a sinner. I do still sin, after all: “If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:10. But the cross of Calvary, Jesus Christs sacrifice on my behalf has paid for that sin. A debt I can never hope to pay on my own accord. I must look to Christ alone. I beg him for his mercy, and the cross tells me I’m forgiven, once for all.

So to answer your question: I pray for forgiveness, I ask God in his mercy to forgive me, which he does, after all; “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. This forgiveness comes as the penalty was paid by Jesus, Gods justice and wrath against sin satisfied by the cross.

Christs righteousness imputed to the believer. They are holy in Gods sight: “let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Hebrews 10:22. ‘clean from an evil conscience’; looking to the cross, the believer knows his sins are dealt with, once for all.

Yes I still sin. I trust Christ alone, for salvation, his work on my behalf upon Calvary, and his constant intercession for believers in heaven: “Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.” Hebrews 7:25. He saves to the uttermost, a single perfecting work for them, once for all. He now sits at the right hand of God. Those who are in him, he always makes intercession for.

Peace sir.

I hope this clarifies my position.

Lincs.

*All scripture quotes taken from the English Standard Version.

My wife has a problem with “WHY CATHOLICS CONFESS THEIR SINS TO A PRIEST” Don’t they know they can go directly to God? I answered “Yes, they know that” but I handed her a Catholic tract that Hopefully will explain why. And I told her also to ask Jesus since He set His church up that way. Who was it that came up with the idea that God is all you need to confess your sins to? Was it some Protestant in the middle ages or what? I’m imagining Luther, Calvin or one of those guys

 

[peace2u2]

Jesus sacrifice perfected, once for all time, those who are sanctified. A re application of it means one is saying it didn’t perfect?

This is why in the Catholic Church we have the Teaching Magisterium to intepret Sacred Scripure, so that we are not mislead or become confused.

The Magisterium is necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly.

I hope you are able to open the following link. Read for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. You are free to accept the fullness of God’s Truth or you are free to reject the fullness of God’s Truth. He never forces you. For He is the perfect gentleman.

Peace in Christ

old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3.shtml#art6

 

[Lincoln7]

My wife has a problem with “WHY CATHOLICS CONFESS THEIR SINS TO A PRIEST” Don’t they know they can go directly to God? I answered “Yes, they know that” but I handed her a Catholic tract that Hopefully will explain why. And I told her also to ask Jesus since He set His church up that way. Who was it that came up with the idea that God is all you need to confess your sins to? Was it some Protestant in the middle ages or what? I’m imagining Luther, Calvin or one of those guys

LegoGE1947,

Confession for Calvin for example was slightly more complex than what you state above.
See his ‘Institutes of the Christian religion’ here: m.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.v.html
Sections 12 and 14 of Chapter 4 specifically. I think generally Calvin adhered to the following formula, which I borrow from Anglicanism - “All may, some should, none must”.

I will however welcome (name removed by moderator)ut from Reformed persons far more knowedgable than myself on this one

However I think this may be slightly off topic for this thread…

Lincs.

 

[Lincoln7]

This is why in the Catholic Church we have the Teaching Magisterium to intepret Sacred Scripure, so that we are not mislead or become confused.

The Magisterium is necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly.

I hope you are able to open the following link. Read for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. You are free to accept the fullness of God’s Truth or you are free to reject the fullness of God’s Truth. He never forces you. For He is the perfect gentleman.

Peace in Christ

old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3.shtml#art6

peace2u2,

With respect, I think the passages there in Hebrews are clear on wha they are trying to convey. Have the verses in question been infallibly interpreted? I say this not in a confrontational manner, but out of genuine conviction.

Peace to you too!

Lincs.

 

[LegoGE1947]

This is why in the Catholic Church we have the Teaching Magisterium to intepret Sacred Scripure, so that we are not mislead or become confused.

The Magisterium is necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly.

I hope you are able to open the following link. Read for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. You are free to accept the fullness of God’s Truth or you are free to reject the fullness of God’s Truth. He never forces you. For He is the perfect gentleman.

Peace in Christ

old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3.shtml#art6

Check out the story in Acts about Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. The Ethiopian was reading a passage from Isaiah (which proves he was an educated man and quite wealthy if he could even AFFORD a copy of scripture and could read it) Philip asked him if he understood what he was reading to which the Ethiopian answered “How can I unless someone instructs me”? This is a passage the Church uses quite often to debunk the idea that everyone can interpret the Bible for him/herself without help from an instructor or spiritual advisor of some kind. Also explains why there are so many conflicting religions out there. Toward the end of Luther’s life even he had to admit he had opened a “can of worms.”

 

[Lincoln7]

Check out the story in Acts about Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. The Ethiopian was reading a passage from Isaiah (which proves he was an educated man and quite wealthy if he could even AFFORD a copy of scripture and could read it) Philip asked him if he understood what he was reading to which the Ethiopian answered “How can I unless someone instructs me”? This is a passage the Church uses quite often to debunk the idea that everyone can interpret the Bible for him/herself without help from an instructor or spiritual advisor of some kind. Also explains why there are so many conflicting religions out there. Toward the end of Luther’s life even he had to admit he had opened a “can of worms.”

LegoGE1947,

I’m unsure the passage in question supports the need for an infallible magisterium… I have been helped by pastors to understand scripture before, that doesn’t mean they are infallible guides for me. Rather that they have greater understanding.

Again however, we’re a tad off topic…

Lincs.

 

[LegoGE1947]

LegoGE1947,

I’m unsure the passage in question supports the need for an infallible magisterium… I have been helped by pastors to understand scripture before, that doesn’t mean they are infallible guides for me. Rather that they have greater understanding.

Again however, we’re a tad off topic…

Lincs.

It does support the need for people to be taught and not just to rely on your own subjective interpretation. You can sometimes come up with some really “off the charts” ideas by just relying on one’s own personal interpretation of not just the Bible but other things as well. For instance there is a Children’s book called “Amelia Bedelia” where someone wants her to bake them a “coffee cake” She knew what cake is and what coffee is so she mixed some coffee into some cake mix and made what she thought was “coffee cake!” Also she thought “weeding a garden” was putting weeds into the garden rather than pulling them OUT! Etc.