Protestant view on Covenants?

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How do Protestanst view the covenants in the Scripture?

Do they acknowledge there are 6 of them? (with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus)

How come they do not see the last covenant made by Jesus on the cross as making the God’s family a Catholic family (i.e. for all people)?
 
There are at least the 6 covenants that you refer to. And who says that Protestants deny that New Covenant a catholic family. (The invisible Church of all believers.)
 
There are at least the 6 covenants that you refer to. And who says that Protestants deny that New Covenant a catholic family. (The invisible Church of all believers.)
Thank you.

I would need someone to clarify these things for me.

That’s why I don’t quite understand it. They maybe believe in a universal God’s church, however Non-Catholics usually dismiss right away the notion of his Church being a Catholic one as the adjective for that is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Although that’s what precisely Catholic means (universal and for all people). But I think this is for another thread 🙂

I was wondering more in their view on the covenants. In what do they differ? Any comments or any source?

Thank you very much
 
During my third and final year at (Protestant) seminary, something happened that represented a crisis for me. I was studying covenant and I heard of another theologian studying covenant, a man by the name of Professor Shepherd in Philadelphia teaching at Westminster Seminary. I heard about Shepherd because he was being accused of heresy. People were suggesting that his heresy grew out of his understanding of the covenant. So I got some documents that he had written, some articles, and I read through them. I discovered that Professor Shepherd had come across the same conclusions that my research had led me to.

In the Protestant world the idea of covenant is understood
practically as synonymous with or interchangeable with contract. When you have a covenant with God, it’s the same as having a contract. You give God your sin; He gives you Christ, and everything is a faith-deal for salvation. But the more I studied, the more I came to see that for the ancient Hebrews, and in Sacred Scripture, a covenant differs from a contract about as much as marriage differs from prostitution. In a contract you exchange property, whereas in a covenant you exchange persons. In a contract you say, “This is yours and that is mine,” but
Scripture shows how in a covenant you say, “I am yours and you are mine.” Even when God makes a covenant with us, He says, “I will be your God and you will be my people.” After studying Hebrew, I discovered that 'Am, the Hebrew word for people, literally means, kinsman, family. I will be your God and father; you will be my family, my sons and my daughters, my household. So covenants form kinship bonds which makes family with God.

I read Shepherd’s articles, and he was saying much of the same
thing: our covenant with God means sonship. I thought, “Well, yeah, this is good.” I wondered what heresy is involved in that. Then somebody told me, “Shepherd is calling into question sola fide.” What! No way. I mean, that is the Gospel. That is the simple truth of Jesus Christ. He died for sins; I believe in him. He saves me, pure and simple; it’s a done deal. Sola fide? He’s questioning that? No way.

I called him on the phone. I said, “I’ve read your stuff on
covenant; it makes lots of sense. I’ve come to pretty much the same conclusions. But why is this leading you to call into question Luther’s doctrine of sola fide?” He went on to show in this discussion that Luther’s conception of justification was very restricted and limited. It had lots of truth, but it also missed lots of truths. When I hung up the phone, I pursued this a little further and I discovered that for Luther and for practically all of Bible Christianity and Protestantism, God is a judge, and the covenant is a courtroom scene whereby all of us are guilty criminals. But since Christ took our punishment, we get his righteousness, and he gets our sins, so we get off scot-free; we’re justified. For Luther, in other words, salvation is a legal exchange, but for Paul in Romans, for Paul in Galatians, salvation is that, but it’s much more than that. It isn’t just a legal exchange because the covenant doesn’t point to a Roman courtroom so much
as to a Hebrew family room. God is not just simply a judge; God is a father, and his judgments are fatherly. Christ is not just somebody who represents an innocent victim who takes our rap, our penalty; He is the firstborn among many brethren. He is our oldest brother in the family, and he sees us as runaways, as prodigals, as rebels who are cut off from the life of God’s family. And by the new covenant Christ doesn’t just exchange in a legal sense; Christ gives us His own sonship so that we really become children of God.

The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
 
Thank you epostle,

it was because what I primarily learned from Scott Hahn why I asked the question of the other Protestants here. You see, he came to now what the covenant story is all about and so I wonder, with what points of the Catholic view of the covenant “evolution” do our Protestant brothers disagree :cool:

Thank you for the link. It’s the first time I saw Scott Hahn’s conversion story transcribed 🙂
 
God made a covenant with Adam and Eve after the fall that the Seed of the woman woulld crush the head of the serpent. This was a promise to all humanity as Adam and Eve were the only members of it at that time.

After the flood, God made a covenant with Noah that He would never destroy all life by a flood again. This is set out at the beginning of Genesis 9, but the full intent is contained in the last verses of Chapter 8 where God says He says He will never destroy all life again. This is an expansion of the covenant with Adam and Eve in that not only will the devil be punished but life will continue.

God made a covenant with Adam. This was actually a series of promises to be God to Abraham and his descendents, to give them the Promised Land, to multiply them and to bless all the nations through him. Through this covenant God expanded the earlier covenant. Not only would He never destroy all life again but He would bless it. He also chose the instrument through which He would reveal Himself to the world and fufill the initial promise of crushing the serpent.

Subsequent covenents with Isaac and Jacob further defined the people through whom the promises would be fufilled.

After the exodus from Eygpt, God made a covenant with the sons of Israel. He presented the 10 Commandments as the standards that He expected. He again promised the Promised Land and that He would be their God. If they obeyed they would do well but would suffer if they didn’t obey. This expanded the earlier covenants by setting out what God required for life.

The covenant with David was that there would always be one of his descendants on the throne. This again was a narrowing down of who within the Chosen People would fufill the promise to crush the serpent’s head.

Israel didn’t keep their covenant with God and followed other gods and generally broke His laws. God through the prophets promised a new covenant that that would apply to all people.

This is the New Covenant brought to us by Jesus. In this covenant all the promises of the older covenants came to fruition. Jesus, a descendent of Adam, Abraham and David, crushed Satan and brought salvation to all the nations. The law was fufilled and the promises fufilled. The Chosen People was expanded to include all the nations. The promises to Israel were fufilled as God would be God to the Church, the new Israel. The Promised Land was now the Kingdom of Hevean. Baptism replaced circumsion and was the seal of the New Covenant, and the Lord’s Supper replaced Passover and became the memorial of the New Covenant sacrifice.
 
I can help a little, as a convert. I was never attached to any particular Protestant denomination, and so I’m ignorant about a lot.

Jesus’ covenant on the Cross was more than just making us all family; He also gave us Mary for our mother. Protestants get the first part, but deny Mary was anything more than an earthly vessel. Kind of like a clay pot, vs. the Ark of the New Covenant.

They don’t know what they’re missing! (I never thought I’d develop a devotion to her, but I have, and how lovely it is, and how much help she has mediated for me!)

Another covenant Jesus entered into for His church was when He made Peter the first Pope:

16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matt 16:16-19 (RSV)

They insist that “this rock” refers not to Peter, but to what he said (“You are the Christ…”), and that “you” in v. 19 refers to the church, not to Peter. They choose to ignore the fact that (in the Greek) every “you” in verse 19 is singular, not plural; if He had been talking about the Apostles, it would have been plural.

And their understanding of the universal (or small-c catholic) church is flawed, as it includes all the Protestant denominations, in spite of clear Biblical injunctions to be “as one.” (cf Jn 17:11, 21-22; Rom 15:5-6; 1 Cor 1:10-13; 1 Cor 3:1-4.)

A sudden thought: if the Protestant view of the Universal Church was right, then the council at Jerusalem was wrong, and should have divided Christianity into the circumcision party and the non-circumcision party.

And, of course, they don’t understand the covenant of the Eucharist.

I have grown so much since becoming a Catholic!

Ruthie
Tiber swim team '06
 
Thank you SyCarl, thank you Ruthie 🙂

Ok, so I understand quite a lot the anti-Catholic arguments (arguments against papacy, Eucharist, sacraments etc).

But until Jesus’ time - what’s the difference in their understanding of the OT covenants? (if there are any major differences)
 
Thank you SyCarl, thank you Ruthie 🙂

Ok, so I understand quite a lot the anti-Catholic arguments (arguments against papacy, Eucharist, sacraments etc).

But until Jesus’ time - what’s the difference in their understanding of the OT covenants? (if there are any major differences)
I am not sure what the Catholic position on covenants is.
 
There are eight BIBLICAL COVENANTS. You can read about them in this short article.

Protestant, “Covenant Theology” recognizes only two to three covenants: The covenants of “works,” “redemption” and “grace.” But these are theological covenants, not literal, and are what “Replacement Theology” is often based.

If your browser doesn’t recognize the above link go here:
biblicist.org/bible/cove_bib.shtml
 
As a former professor of theology in a protestant divinity school may I address your concerns in part:
  1. We believe that God has progressively revealed himself to men and women through the biblical covenants thus disclosing his marvelous plan of salvation ( both of mankind and the creation).
  2. These covenants are the Edenic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, and New Covenant. Some aspects of the covenants are “conditional” meaning that their promises require faith and obedience on our part. Some are “unconditional” meaning their promises will be fulfilled by God regardless of what man does.
  3. We believe in a “universal church” encompassing all those who have put their faith and trust in Christ’s saving work ( Protestant and Catholic) and demonstrate it by producing the “fruit” of salvation.
  4. Many protestants have an “already” and “not yet” understanding of the kingdom. They believe that Christ has begun his reign as Lord of his universal Church, but that some aspects of the new covenant will be fullfilled at his Second Coming. They see a thousand year rule that is both spiritual and political from Jerusalem with the saints of all the ages ( both believing OT and NT saints).
 
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