Protestant with questions!!!

[Janet1983]

I have no intention to try to tear you apart, and I apologize if I was uncharitable in my comment. But as a faithful Catholic I will defend Church doctrine, and will certainly endeavor to tear your arguments apart, should you ever elect to dignify us with real arguments. Again I apologize for having crossed the line between personal attack and attacking your points.

It is our duty to defend the Church against error and calumny, especially in light of the fact that the OP came here asking questions about Catholicism in good faith, not seeking support for her doubts, a Catholic forum being the last place where she should expect support for her doubts (there are plenty of places where she can find that if that’s what she wanted). It is our duty to properly represent the Church in these matters.

If you can’t participate constructively in the debate and only have the same tired old heretical platitudes to dish around (believe us, we’ve heard it all), have the good grace to allow us to answer her questions without the distraction of also having to refute your unsupported assertions as a sideshow, and stick to your blog for your proselytizing.

The trouble is that I am walking a very fine line. Over and over I see how comments that are trying to insult me and others or misrepresent what I believe come up. I am not saying that anyone is purposely trying to provoke me to anger, but it seems so in a lot of cases. Only by God’s grace I can keep calm and loving.
If you need a former Catholic heretic to make an example, do so. It doesn’t hurt my feelings as I do not need the crown of winning an argument.
If you are however interested in showing both sides, I would be delighted.
This forum has always been a place for balanced discussion and that is what I cherish it for.
Concerning the Church I simply will not submit to her authority. That is not because I disagree with Scripture. Even though I do not agree on all books presented in Catholic bibles, I do know that the Bible in and of itself came from the early Christians. These Christians whose followers would change from being the universal (catholic) Church to being the institution of the Catholic Church as we have it today, spread over the borders of nations and oceans, with an elaborate law and catechism and influence on society (to a certain degree).
This is the Church that I used to believe in, that I used to trust and that I was obedient to and that I would have died for (even though the worst I got was being thrown trash at in High School).
I once, in my teenage years, vowed obedience to God, not knowing where this path would end up leading me. I left the Church for reasons of theology (one of my favorite topics in school) and specifically for Marian Dogmata. Not that those were the only issues I had, but they were the point where it all started.
Between my vow and today 11 years have passed. Most of these I spent as a practicing Catholic.
I believe myself to be a slave Jesus Christ who is my Master. I only owe Him obedience and I only obey Him. He is my singular focus. I don’t focus on money, the house I live in, my furbabies, my friends and not even my husband (and I know he thinks the same way). My focus is to please Jesus Christ alone in my current situation with what I have and what I can do. You told me to go back to my blog to proselytize. I am not here for proselytizing, but if you want to know how I tick, you can look at my blog and see the words I wrote. I am writing publicly for everybody to see.
Other than that I can say I am a Christian and I believe the Bible. I believe in the Lord and His Word.
I know you are trying to get me to go somewhere where you can say that the Catholic Church brought me the Bible and if I don’t believe the Church, why should I believe the Bible. I have seen the jaws of the trap you have set for me and I have avoided them.
I believe the Bible to be true, but I do not believe the Catholic Church to be true to the Bible anymore.

 

[Murphs10]

I know you are trying to get me to go somewhere where you can say that the Catholic Church brought me the Bible and if I don’t believe the Church, why should I believe the Bible. I have seen the jaws of the trap you have set for me and I have avoided them.
I believe the Bible to be true, but I do not believe the Catholic Church to be true to the Bible anymore.

I don’t see how factual information can ever be perceived as a trap. If you say that you believe that the Catholic Church cannonized the Bible, but has since gone astray then fine that is your answer and it is what you believe. If not, what is your answer?

Also, you say that you believe that the Church was at one time the universal Church, but later became a Roman institution. If this is so, do you believe in the same things as these early Christians that made up the Church “before” this happened?

 

[kepha1]

Well, I guess we’ll end up having to agree to disagree. I believe the Bible to be the infallible, inerrant, Written Word of our Lord and God. Jesus Christ is the Living Word.
I do not believe in the authority of the Catholic Church in this, even though I once did. I am not going to submit myself to Catholic teachings, but I am always open to clarification on what the Church actually teaches. Even after being a Catholic for more than 20 years, I still might have thoughts and impressions here and there that are not taught in the Church but were taught to me like that.
I know you wish to break out the sword now and storm into my positions. I do not deem that necessary. I have heard the arguments before and I still disagree with them.
Go ahead and try to slay what you perceive to be the dragon and may you come out of this discussion as the winner.

Your sister in Christ,
Janet

I’m sorry you hold Protestant opinions to be infallible but the Church Jesus founded is not. You claim to follow the Bible but the fact is you follow the opinions of Luther and Calvin on what the Bible means. If you choose to reject basic Marian doctrines you subject yourself to a list of Christological heresies that Protestantism has fallen into: Nestorianism, Docetism, Monophysitism, Apollinarianism to name a few. At the end of the day, these are just rehashed heresies in trace form, in blended form, or are outright believed by Protestantism. Evangelicals are especially prone to Nestorianism when the Mother of God is brought up, but won’t admit it. They deny the Council of Ephesis from the 4rth century that defended the Trinity by defining the fullness of Jesus’ humanity and defended the Trinity from the heresiarch Nestorius. That is one example of Protestantism falling into Christological heresy. Eventually they fall into the trap of denying His divinity, which we have seen.

It is convenient to reject divine authority given to mere human beings, it allows you to justify your disobedience and rebellion. It is a very dangerous thing to do. I do not believe ex-Catholics leave the Church for theological reasons. If that were the case, there wouldn’t be so many Protestant scholars, ministers, and university professors converting to the Catholic Church. I submit you left the Church out of emotional reasons, and have been poisoned by Protestant propaganda and private opinions you hold to be infallible.

If you don’t want your precious dragon to be slayed you shouldn’t let it roam in front of knights. I’m sorry to come across as harsh, but sometimes the truth needs to be told with firmness. You asked for it.

 

[Michael_Francis]

23 posts pruned for being off topic.
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