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liturgyluver
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But to be fair, liturgical protestants would also be unhappy with that since their recitation of the Nicene Creed includes the words catholic and apostolic.
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Indifferently
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I still have yet to be persuaded that rock music is not blasphemy. Would Jesus have played such violent music?
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Indifferently
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Thanks for pointing this out.
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Woody87
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I don’t mean to be to confrontational but why is this on this part of the forum. Are you Catholic? There are Christian artists in every style you enjoy listening to. Rap, metal, folk, praise and worship why should there not be. Right now I’m am into Gungor, Jenny & Tyler, all the 116 gang, and Eddie James just to name a few for praise and worship I especially like Hillsong United and Jesus Culture and Chris Tomlin
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Cat
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You have to be really careful with this.
We have no way of knowing what Jesus would have done with modern practices. Would Jesus have worn jeans and t-shirts, or would He have worn a business suit? Would Jesus have drunk Budweiser, or would He have stuck with wine, or soft drinks, or just water? Would Jesus have attended movies? Or watched TV, and if so, which shows would He have watched? Would Jesus have eaten at McDonalds, or would He have been strictly organic in His diet? As a carpenter, would He have joined the union, or gone rogue?
How would you or anyone know what He would do with our modern times? We don’t know. We can’t know the answers to these questions above.
All you can do is study His life and teachings, and try to extrapolate, but you have to admit that the extrapolations are still mere speculation, based on what He taught and how we interpret what He taught.
Here’s my question for you. What did Jesus teach or say or do that would cause you to believe that He would never play/listen to rock music? Think really hard about this, because you won’t find any passages in which Jesus said to avoid rock music because it is violent. In fact, He didn’t really teach avoidance of violence at all. He participated in it–driving the moneylenders out of the temple.
BTW, I disagree utterly that rock music is violent. Rock music is a form of music in which the beat is generally on the off-beat rather than the down beat. There is nothing inherently “violent” about an offbeat–to me, that’s ascribing a spiritual aspect to a physical trait, and again, it’s something you have to be really careful about. In the past, and even now, people assume that left-handedness is perverted–obviously this is not true. This is the kind of strange conclusions we make when we try to turn a physicality into something spiritual.
Many many songs are “rock” music, and many of these songs are gentle and peaceable; e.g., “Eleanor Rigby” by Lennon and McCartney, one of my favorite songs of all time.
I hope these thoughts help you and others to think more deeply about the question of Jesus and rock music.
BTW, because of my upbringing, I personally think that if Jesus lived today on this earth, He would not drink alcohol at all. So you see–it’s really easy for us to impose our own personal prejudices when it comes to the question, “What would Jesus do?”
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exnihilo
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Rock music is as you pointed out a wide genre. But I believe that at least some rock music does induce violence or a violent spirit. I had a colleague who told me about the affects he noticed from different types of music on his young boy. If he was listening to harder forms of rock his boy would jump around violently. With softer forms of music he would not.
Really if you think about it most people are inclined to move their body in some sort of way when they hear music. I’m not much of a dancer but I can say that bluegrass makes me want to tap my foot. For those who do dance we certainly don’t expect a violent, headbanging dance to classical music. It wouldn’t be congruent and it is not what came naturally from the music.
I think there is something very much spiritual about music. It is like language. It is communicated between men via physical means, but what underlies it is really spiritual. In fact Professor Peter Kreeft mentions the idea of the music of Bach being an argument for the existence of God.
For these reasons I do believe that some forms of music are more suited for the worship of God.
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EIF5A
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Hello,
I’m currently of the Protestant faith and our worship service includes various instruments (guitar, bass guitar, piano, drums, and sometimes flute and saxophone). The focus is always on the lyrics and not just obtaining a “feeling”, although they are complementary. Also, not all the worship songs sound like rock. And of course, we also sing traditional hymns. I’m sure there are examples of “musical excess” out there in worship services, but having been to a few Catholic Masses, I found the praise music a little…dull…[don’t stone me]
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I think as long as the lyrics are sound and the focus is on worshipping God and the humility one obtains by meditating on the love and grace of God, the “style” of the music is not as important. Didn’t the ancient Israelites have musical instruments that made loud and joyful noise?
(I just signed up and have’t had time to read all the previous posts – if I repeated something that has been expressed previously, I apologize.)
I’m currently of the Protestant faith and our worship service includes various instruments (guitar, bass guitar, piano, drums, and sometimes flute and saxophone). The focus is always on the lyrics and not just obtaining a “feeling”, although they are complementary. Also, not all the worship songs sound like rock. And of course, we also sing traditional hymns. I’m sure there are examples of “musical excess” out there in worship services, but having been to a few Catholic Masses, I found the praise music a little…dull…[don’t stone me]
.I think as long as the lyrics are sound and the focus is on worshipping God and the humility one obtains by meditating on the love and grace of God, the “style” of the music is not as important. Didn’t the ancient Israelites have musical instruments that made loud and joyful noise?
(I just signed up and have’t had time to read all the previous posts – if I repeated something that has been expressed previously, I apologize.)
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peace2u2
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I liked what you said about music being like a language and some forms of music are more suited for the worship of God.
I recently discovered Gregorian chant - WOW! Talk about speaking to the depths of my soul!!
youtube.com/watch?v=CBwh1OXw6uI
youtube.com/watch?v=27HHEvAadiI
Very special. In fact a few weeks ago, Gregorian chant played during our receiving Jesus in the Most Holy Eucharist. Upon returning to our seat, my husband turned to our daughter and said, Do you hear that?" She looked at her father with loving eyes, shook her head and said, No, Dad." And then flashed him a great big smile.
Lord Jesus I lift up our spiritual brothers from Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey and all our spiritual brothers who devote all of themselves to serve You and glorify You in all they do. May you always protect them and may they always bring Your Peace and Your Love and Your Joy into all the souls they speak to thru their gift of their voice, thru Christ our Lord. Amen.
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peace2u2
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That I had no idea. Very interesting. No wonder as a child and attended on occasion my friend’s Lutheran church, I felt quite at home. I probably even called her Pastor, Father?!
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SteveVH
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That’s funny, sort of. I feel the same way about that song.
For those who feel that contemporary music should not be used in the Mass, I would just say that I have attended several parishes that had an old lady trying to pound out some traditional hymn on the piano and whose singing evoked only feelings of suffering. I actually think people that attended those Masses got time off in purgatory. It was not inducive to prayer, rather it was a complete distraction. As far as traditional hymns done well, I’m all for it, but there is nothing wrong with keeping it fresh. Just my personal opinion.
Of course, we cannot and do not forget why we are there, and that is for the word of God and the Eucharist. And yes, if people are basing their faith on emotions then they are lacking and we, as music ministers are failing. But that is not what I hear. We are thanked for helping to bring people closer to Christ in the Mass. We have youth who are attending that would not otherwise attend and that spills over into evangelization which then spills over into catechesis. We have had entire families come back to Church because of their teens and most have stayed.
Our purpose is not to give them a musical experience, but to give them a beautiful liturgical experience. Good liturgy builds faith. Poor liturgy destroys faith. We are called to provide music for “this generation, at this time and in this culture”. (GIRM)
Spot on.
Regardless of beat, instrumentation, etc. music during the Lutheran Divine Service (mass) must reflect true doctrine, and that song does not.This is my fear about praise music, along with what seems to be a willingness to eliminate, or at least minimize those things necessary to the liturgy.
Jon
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benjohnson
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andrewstx
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It has been a few years, but the last time I was at a Lutheran church they said “holy Christian church”.
And of course many in the Episcopal and CofE think of themselves as catholics.
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maltmom
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I grew up Presbyterian. Every Sunday we said the Apostle’s Creed. We’d say I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church… Please note that is with the little “c” meaning the universal church, not the Catholic Church
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andrewstx
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To tell the truth I am an ex-protestant who went to an Episcopal church. Guitars and rock music are completely rejected in that church.
They did get a piano, but it is usually the pipe organ and never both at the same time like many Baptists.
They did get a piano, but it is usually the pipe organ and never both at the same time like many Baptists.
Andrew, I wish you hadn’t pointed this out.
In the Lutheran Service Book (LCMS) it still says “Holy Christian Church”. Frankly, its embarrassing.
So much so, that they feel the need to place next to it an asterisk and note at the bottom of the page the fact that it originally says “Holy Catholic Church”.President Harrison, if you read this, its time for us to outgrowth this silliness.
Jon
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SteveVH
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This is why we love you so much here, Jon. I’ve never seen you try and run from anything.Andrew, I wish you hadn’t pointed this out.
In the Lutheran Service Book (LCMS) it still says “Holy Christian Church”. Frankly, its embarrassing.
President Harrison, if you read this, its time for us to outgrowth this silliness.
Jon
Thanks, Steve. That’s very kind of you to say.This is why we love you so much here, Jon. I’ve never seen you try and run from anything.
Jon
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jeannetherese
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I tend to think of hymns as a form of catechesis and worry about what some lyrics may be unintentionally teaching at Mass.
I’m unfamiliar with the song,but the lyrics, as presented here, seem to suggest panthiesm? Air =God?
Not everyone will make the connections assumed by the songwriter and I
worry that the result may be catechesis that confuses Our Lord’s creation with Our Lord Himself.
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SteveVH
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The air being breathed is God’s holy presence in one’s life. I think you’re stretching that a bit far.
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