Protestantism and 2 Maccabees

[Atreyu]

I’ve just finished reading 2 Maccabees. This book is in my opinion incredibly damning to Protestantism. In chapter 12 we see the following:

43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

1. 
   *]This book contains a clear reference to purgatory.
   *]The existence of purgatory would deny several Protestant doctrines, in particular sola fide and imputed righteousness.
   
   Now I know that Protestants do not accept 2 Maccabees as canonical, and they label the book “apocrypha”. But the fact remains that this book - if it were canonical - pretty clearly refutes one of the most important doctrines (if not the most important doctrine) of Protestantism. The point of this thread is to state that for Protestantism to exist, then Protestants necessarily need to claim that the book of 2 Maccabees is wrong. Not just not-canonical or not-inspired, but it has to be completely incorrect! I think that this is a very weak argument, especially when one considers that the book of 2 Maccabees was contained in the Septuagint which was the set of Scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles most often quoted from. Surely if the Septuagint contained in itself a completely incorrect doctrine then Jesus or the Apostles would have commented on it?
   
   Are my premises correct? Any other comments?

 

[D_Quintero]

Very good, I went out and tried to find attacks on yours and others premises about the books but the best one I could find is this one, Care to debate this?

“2 Maccabees 12:38-46. The book of Maccabees is apocryphal and is not part of the inspired Scriptures. St Jerome says that “the Church reads Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees, but does not admit them among the canonical Scriptures.” He says further that they are read “for the edification of the people, not to give authority to the doctrines of the Church.” Even so, Maccabees does not prove purgatory. After a certain battle, idols were discovered hidden under the clothes of the dead Jewish soldiers. The Jewish general, Judas Maccabeus, sent money to Jerusalem to offer sacrifices for them. In doing this, Judas was not following the Scriptures because among the many precepts of the Law of Moses, there was no sacrifice intended for the dead. In all the Scriptures there is no example of Jews or Christians offering sacrifices or praying for the departed. Moreover, this passage proves too much for the Catholic for these soldiers were guilty of idolatry, a mortal sin, and therefore they were damned to eternal, rather than temporal, punishment in Hell.”

 

[Atreyu]

"…Even so, Maccabees does not prove purgatory. After a certain battle, idols were discovered hidden under the clothes of the dead Jewish soldiers. The Jewish general, Judas Maccabeus, sent money to Jerusalem to offer sacrifices for them. In doing this, Judas was not following the Scriptures because among the many precepts of the Law of Moses, there was no sacrifice intended for the dead. In all the Scriptures there is no example of Jews or Christians offering sacrifices or praying for the departed. Moreover, this passage proves too much for the Catholic for these soldiers were guilty of idolatry, a mortal sin, and therefore they were damned to eternal, rather than temporal, punishment in Hell."

I don’t really want to discuss the canonicity of the book of Maccabees in this thread, as I think it has been well covered in other threads. But as to whether or not the book of Maccabees proves purgatory is another matter. The quote you gave says that Judas was not following the Scriptures with respect to the sacrifice intended for the dead. Well ok, but Judas never really says that he’s following the Scriptures when he offers this sacrifice.

Now the author of 2 Maccabees says this: “for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.” It is a very good question to ask about whether or not these Jews were guilty of a mortal sin. Maybe somebody who is more knowledgeable about what constitutes a mortal sin would be able to comment better than I. Yet Judas somehow expects these people to rise again. Maybe he thought that somehow these Jews were not guilty of mortal sin. Indeed it seems from the text that these same Jews had already fought and won many miraculous battles with Judas, through the help of God. And so they must have had some idea that something remarkable was going on. Or maybe Judas had no idea what constitutes a mortal sin.

For whatever reason, it remains that Judas expected these people to rise again, and hence prayed for them and offered them a sacrifice. The Protestant still has to claim that this is utterly incorrect.

 

[Mystophilus]

Atreyu:

Are my premises correct? Any other comments?

I think that there are a few things that ought to be said.

First, many Protestants do not accept the sola fide doctrine. As a result, were you able to convince them to include 2 Maccabees in their canon, they could take up the doctrine of Purgatory without any difficulty.

Second, the early Protestants went back to the Hebrew Tanakh for their Old Testament. 2 Maccabees is not there, and that is enough of a reason for them to reject it.

Third, the existence of Protestantism does not depend upon any one doctrine.