Protestantism and Orthodoxy in the Loaves and Fishes Stories

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The sources of Divine Truth in Catholicism are Five, as opposed to what i would presume to be Four in Orthodoxy:

The Trinity and Incarnation
Peter
the General Bishops
the Scriptures
and Reason.

In Orthodoxy, Peter is not there, so there are only four sources.

In the same way, there are Five Apostolic Sees, and Peter represents the fullness by Himself, whereas the other Four, though they be greater in number, stand not with him, and possess less in truth.

Again, I use the analogy of the miraculous feedings: two primary stories, in one, 4,000 are fed with 7 loaves and a “few fish”. In the other, 5,000 are fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish. In Catholicism, there are two forms of rift that affect the Sacramental life, schism, in which the totality of the 7 sacraments remain (7 loaves), and heresy, in which the sacraments are torn into 5 (the 5 that require the episcopate) and 2 (the two retained by the heretics, Baptism and Marriage).

Peter represents the fullness of Apostolicity in himself alone, by virtue of his special sharing in the charism of infallibility. Hence, Peter’s kingdom is like unto 5,000, the fullness of apostolicity, the doctrine of all 5 Apostolic Sess present in Peter by himself, even without the other 4. And again the Peter’s Kingdom is like unto 5,000, for it retains all 5 sources of Divine Truth.

The Orthodox are like unto 4,000, both because they are governed by 4 Apostolic Sees, and because they retain only 4 Sources of Divine Truth, lacking Peter.

Now, consider this: the Bishops are like the Earth, the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15), just as Peter is the Rock. And loaves require the earth, the barley that must be grown in it. The sea is the place of chaos, from which arise the beasts. It is where the heretics are tossed “to and fro by every wave of doctrine” (the serpent spews a river after the woman, in order that she may be “carried away” by it, carried away by error?]).

Hence, the seven loaves and few fish and the five loaves and two fish mean this: The Orthodox have the earth of bishops, a general foundation of truth, and hence have all seven loaves, the fullness of sacraments, but because they have not Peter, who is the Rock, they must fish a little bit, tossed to and fro a little (for the Orthodox do believe some minor heresies, like the rejection of the filioque, and the rejection of papal infallibilty, and their debate of later Catholic doctrinal development after the Schism), but the Protestants do not have the earth, and hence can only have fish, for they have no foundation of truth, and so are tossed to and fro much worse, and so they only have two fish to feed on, Baptism and Marriage, the only two sacraments that don’t require the earth of the episcopate.

And sure enough, it has been in the kingdom of the West, of Peter, of the fullness, the 5,000, that the form of division has mostly been heresy, whereas in the East, the primary separation has been schism.

Hence, in the East, in the Kingdom of 4,000, the primary separation has been schism, 7 loavees and few fish.

In the kingdom oif the West, the 5,000, the primary separation has been heresy, 5 loaves and 2 fish.

People think I’m crazy, and Catholics ignore this as a coincidence. What a big one it is though. Why is that?

I personally think it is more than a coincidence. I think God put it there deliberately to be discovered by Rome later in doctrinal development.
 
thanks for noticing, BlestOne! You’re in computers, me too. I am a Web Author at Intel, in OR.

My great aunt lives near Peoria, in Oglesby, near Ottawa. do you know those areas? Her farm was chosen as a calendar picture.

🙂
 
I think that you are seeing more than is intended.

It’s FIVE in Orthodoxy as well: Peter and the Apostles.
 
I think that you are seeing more than is intended.

It’s FIVE in Orthodoxy as well: Peter and the Apostles.
no, the Orthodox DON’T accept Peter in the FULLEST sense, namely, the infalliblity of his INDIVIDUAL office, which the other Sees do not have by themselves.
 
no, the Orthodox DON’T accept Peter in the FULLEST sense, namely, the infalliblity of his INDIVIDUAL office, which the other Sees do not have by themselves.
We don’t accept it because it is false.
What we do understand is that every bishop is the successor to Peter and the Apostles.

John
 
no, the Orthodox DON’T accept Peter in the FULLEST sense, namely, the infalliblity of his INDIVIDUAL office, which the other Sees do not have by themselves.
We accept Peter as God accepted him.
And since Pope St. Gregory himself says that Antioch and Alexandria are Petrine Sees, you got some problems with numbers.
 
We don’t accept it because it is false.
What we do understand is that every bishop is the successor to Peter and the Apostles.

John
The Orthodox, that is, schismatics, are spiritually contraceptive towards Peter.

Is it any wonder then, that like heretics, who contracept even more spiritually, the schismatics are beginning to accept physical contraception?
 
The Orthodox, that is, schismatics, are spiritually contraceptive towards Peter.

Is it any wonder then, that like heretics, who contracept even more spiritually, the schismatics are beginning to accept physical contraception?
And you explain how those who “follow” the Vatican who accept it too?
 
And you explain how those who “follow” the Vatican who accept it too?
Please clarify: do you mean, how 85% of European Derived Catholics contracept in dissent? There are weeds in the wheat.

Or are you insinuating that NFP is contraception? It is not.

Contraception means artificial birth control.

NFP is not artificial, nor is anti-conception. Choosing to abstain during fertile periods is not against conception.

That would be like saying abstaining from fornication is contraception.
 
Please clarify: do you mean, how 85% of European Derived Catholics contracept in dissent? There are weeds in the wheat.
Don’t forget the Americans. I don’t know about Canada, but I have heard stories about Latin America.

So, how/why do you distinguish them from us who are not under the Vatican?
You made some conection between “schism” and contraception:
“Is it any wonder then, that like heretics, who contracept even more spiritually, the schismatics are beginning to accept physical contraception?”
What’ the qualitative difference between those who don’t’ accept Vatican claims, and those who pay lip service to it?
Or are you insinuating that NFP is contraception? It is not.
The ECF who are quoted to condemn contraception for the most part don’t make the distinction. They were, as far as I know, all celibate.
Contraception means artificial birth control.

NFP is not artificial, nor is anti-conception. Choosing to abstain during fertile periods is not against conception
.

Works far better, studies show, than ABC. And the studies I’ve seen shown a 0% divorce rate. I’d hammer on that.
That would be like saying abstaining from fornication is contraception.
That works every time it’s tried too.😃
 
I just skimmed through this the first time.
The sources of Divine Truth in Catholicism are Five, as opposed to what i would presume to be Four in Orthodoxy:

The Trinity and Incarnation
Peter
the General Bishops
the Scriptures
and Reason.

In Orthodoxy, Peter is not there, so there are only four sources.
You don’t have Holy Tradition? The Fathers? How about the Divine Liturgy?
In the same way, there are Five Apostolic Sees, and Peter represents the fullness by Himself, whereas the other Four, though they be greater in number, stand not with him, and possess less in truth.
Again your problem is that according to our Pope St. Gregory, three of those 5 (Rome, Alexandria, Antioch) are one Petrine See. I believe he could have thrown in Jerusalem (the successor of St. Peter that the Vatican has in Antioch for the Melkites does, he’s also one of the two patriarchs that the Vatican has in Jerusalem) but I can understand why he didn’t: the ECF state that St. Peter dared not take the glory, but St. James the Brother of God took that Throne, as if appointed by Christ himself.

Again, I use the analogy of the miraculous feedings: two primary stories, in one, 4,000 are fed with 7 loaves and a “few fish”. In the other, 5,000 are fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish. In Catholicism, there are two forms of rift that affect the Sacramental life, schism, in which the totality of the 7 sacraments remain (7 loaves), and heresy, in which the sacraments are torn into 5 (the 5 that require the episcopate) and 2 (the two retained by the heretics, Baptism and Marriage).
Peter represents the fullness of Apostolicity in himself alone, by virtue of his special sharing in the charism of infallibility.
Maybe you would like to contribute to the thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=265109
Hence, Peter’s kingdom is like unto 5,000, the fullness of apostolicity, the doctrine of all 5 Apostolic Sess present in Peter by himself, even without the other 4. And again the Peter’s Kingdom is like unto 5,000, for it retains all 5 sources of Divine Truth.

The Orthodox are like unto 4,000, both because they are governed by 4 Apostolic Sees, and because they retain only 4 Sources of Divine Truth, lacking Peter.
See above.
Since the Gospels put the 5,000 and 4,000 in the same kingdom’s Christ (He’s the one feeding them in both, see Matthew 16 (that is your favorite chapter):6-11.
Now, consider this: the Bishops are like the Earth, the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15), just as Peter is the Rock. And loaves require the earth, the barley that must be grown in it.
Cant’ grow much barlye on a rock. Matthew 13:5-6.
The sea is the place of chaos, from which arise the beasts. It is where the heretics are tossed “to and fro by every wave of doctrine” (the serpent spews a river after the woman, in order that she may be “carried away” by it, carried away by error?]).
Where did this flash flood come from?
Hence, the seven loaves and few fish and the five loaves and two fish mean this: The Orthodox have the earth of bishops, a general foundation of truth, and hence have all seven loaves, the fullness of sacraments, but because they have not Peter, who is the Rock, they must fish a little bit, tossed to and fro a little (for the Orthodox do believe some minor heresies, like the rejection of the filioque, and the rejection of papal infallibilty, and their debate of later Catholic doctrinal development after the Schism), but the Protestants do not have the earth,
How did the Protestants get put out to sea?
Did we Orthodox through the fish back?
and hence can only have fish, for they have no foundation of truth, and so are tossed to and fro much worse, and so they only have two fish to feed on, Baptism and Marriage, the only two sacraments that don’t require the earth of the episcopate.
Btw, marriage requires, as the Orthodox teaches, the bishop.
And sure enough, it has been in the kingdom of the West, of Peter, of the fullness, the 5,000, that the form of division has mostly been heresy, whereas in the East, the primary separation has been schism.

Hence, in the East, in the Kingdom of 4,000, the primary separation has been schism, 7 loavees and few fish.
Then why don’t we see 4000 schism in the East, unlike the thousands in the West?
In the kingdom oif the West, the 5,000, the primary separation has been heresy, 5 loaves and 2 fish.

People think I’m crazy, and Catholics ignore this as a coincidence. What a big one it is though. Why is that?

I personally think it is more than a coincidence. I think God put it there deliberately to be discovered by Rome later in doctrinal development.
:rolleyes:
 
The Orthodox, that is, schismatics, are spiritually contraceptive towards Peter.
Is it any wonder then, that like heretics…
I see.

“Spiritually contracept schismatics who are like heretics”.

I believe you began this thread so that you could have your own little Orthodox bashing platform.

How sad. 😦
 
I see.

“Spiritually contracept schismatics who are like heretics”.

I believe you began this thread so that you could have your own little Orthodox bashing platform.

How sad. 😦
I am sorry, I need to withdraw some of these attacks. Please forgive me, all that i have offended, and may Jesus forgive me.

😦 :gopray:
 
I am sorry, I need to withdraw some of these attacks. Please forgive me, all that i have offended, and may Jesus forgive me.
I forgive you and so does Jesus Christ.

And please forgive me if I have ever offended you. :o
 
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