Protestantism and piety

[TheSurvivor]

Absolutely! We fast because our Lord is not yet with us. We fast because we are to remind ourselves that, although saved and citizens of the kingdom of heaven, we yet live in a fallen and sinful world, with judgement looming. We fast as a reminder of these things, just as we feast as a foretaste of the great feast to come when our Lord Jesus Christ returns in his glory.

What do you think of this verse?

Proverbs 16:6 “By loyalty and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for, and by the fear of Yahweh a man avoids evil.”

 

[Contarini]

When I was in the Protestant faith, I don’t ever recall being taught “piety” or making acts of faith. We were taught the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit and doing acts of charity, but things like penance, corporal/spiritual acts of mercy, prayers and novenas, etc were not taught.

All we needed was to have faith in Jesus. There was no doctrinal explanation and guidance for issues of the world.

After coming across some Catholic religious books, I realized there’s more to spirituality than “have faith”. Obviously, faith is required, but there’s more for normal people to do.

Simply put, in the Protestant church, I didn’t know that something more existed other than the Bible and faith. That even little things can “count” and become meritorious in the eyes of God. That we really need to make reparations for our sins, even if it’s a seemingly trivial attempt.

There is a rich spiritual tradition of the Catholic Church (and Orthodox Church): the way to holiness, getting rid of passions, prayers, the intercession of the Blessed Mother, Sacraments (the reality of the physical world and how it is not separated from the spiritual world), inspiring deeds of saints, and Real Presence of Jesus.

Since all Christians have the same goal of being holy and righteous, are not the lives of saints, at least, enough to draw Protestants to the Church? I think it’s perfectly possible to be Protestant and holy, but it seems to be more difficult and more lonesome. But with God, all things are possible and if it be His will, so be it.

But I have this idea, perhaps delusional, that if Protestants can just come across saintly spirituality, the Holy Spirit would lead them to seek and find the Church.

Just wish we could overcome sola scriptura and false claim of Mariolatry and worship of dead people…

/end morning rambling

Do you mean that you weren’t taught to read Scripture and pray daily?

Evangelical Protestantism does tend to focus on the “spirit” to the exclusion of specific methods, sometimes viewing the latter with suspicion. And it seems that in these lax days, that often means that piety has withered away altogether.

But in my family the example was set by my grandmother, who rose at 4 or 4:30 every morning for several hours of prayer. I never matched that, but I took for granted that I was expected to spend half an hour or so every day in prayer and Bible reading, and if I did not do so I felt guilty. We also spent a lot of time reading the lives of the saints (not just Catholic saints, of course, though we did honor a few of those, such as Bernard of Clairvaux) and other devotional material. My family was unusually devout, but this kind of piety was once pretty common in its essentials.

Modern evangelicalism derives from a movement within Protestantism called “Pietism,” which derived its name precisely from the fact that it fostered practices of piety.

Edwin

 

[EIF5A]

Do you mean that you weren’t taught to read Scripture and pray daily?

Evangelical Protestantism does tend to focus on the “spirit” to the exclusion of specific methods, sometimes viewing the latter with suspicion. And it seems that in these lax days, that often means that piety has withered away altogether.

But in my family the example was set by my grandmother, who rose at 4 or 4:30 every morning for several hours of prayer. I never matched that, but I took for granted that I was expected to spend half an hour or so every day in prayer and Bible reading, and if I did not do so I felt guilty. We also spent a lot of time reading the lives of the saints (not just Catholic saints, of course, though we did honor a few of those, such as Bernard of Clairvaux) and other devotional material. My family was unusually devout, but this kind of piety was once pretty common in its essentials.

Modern evangelicalism derives from a movement within Protestantism called “Pietism,” which derived its name precisely from the fact that it fostered practices of piety.

Edwin

Pray daily, yes, but the manners/forms/“how to” was not exactly specified or taught.

God bless your grandmother (here on earth or in heaven)! Your family does indeed seem unusually devout, especially with the honoring of some Catholic saints. I wish my family were at least open to that.

It seems like evangelical pietism is kind of like reinventing the wheel. But imagine if the fervor of evangelicalism would join with the Church and pray in unity.

Most evangelicals I have encountered have good hearts and have every intention to live as God-fearing Christians. If only we could all draw from the rich spiritual tradition from the Ascension of Christ to now.

 

[Contarini]

Pray daily, yes, but the manners/forms/“how to” was not exactly specified or taught.

God bless your grandmother (here on earth or in heaven)! Your family does indeed seem unusually devout, especially with the honoring of some Catholic saints. I wish my family were at least open to that.

It seems like evangelical pietism is kind of like reinventing the wheel.

Just to be clear–Pietism originated in the late 17th century. It is the root of all evangelical Protestantism today (pretty much all forms of Protestantism except for the original four–Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, and Anabaptist–more or less derive from it, and the original four have also been influenced by it, especially the Reformed). Pietism did indeed draw on medieval Catholic piety in many ways. However, the emphasis on the inner disposition can lead to the evaporation of any real practice of piety, and that’s what has largely happened with the kind of non-denominational evangelicalism you seem to have grown up with.

The vagueness about method was a problem in my background too–one reason why I, and many others who grew up as evangelicals, have found liturgical piety so important. But my family did have a particularly intense approach, and in fact we looked down on most other evangelicals as wishy-washy and shallow. (My background, more specifically, is in something called the “Holiness movement,” which in turn came from the Wesleyan tradition stemming from the work of John and Charles Wesley. There’s a reason why the Wesleys and their followers were called “Methodists”–while they emphasized inner experience, they also believed that systematic practice of the “means of grace” was important as a way of fostering such experience. John Wesley fasted on Wednesdays and Fridays throughout his life, and my father in fact fasts on Fridays–he doesn’t abstain from meat, but he skips breakfast.)

Edwin

 

[Bonnie]

There’s a reason why the Wesleys and their followers were called “Methodists”–while they emphasized inner experience, they also believed that systematic practice of the “means of grace” was important as a way of fostering such experience.

I’ve always thought it amusing that that Methodism started out quite serious, but my grandfather chose to join in the early 1900s because it was the “fun” church. They had community sings and activities for the young people.

 

[Contarini]

I’ve always thought it amusing that that Methodism started out quite serious, but my grandfather chose to join in the early 1900s because it was the “fun” church. They had community sings and activities for the young people.

And my ancestors (specifically my great-grandfather and his brother) left for essentially the same reason–they didn’t want to be part of the fun church

My grandmother (the daughter-in-law, not the daughter, of the great-grandfather in question) was not allowed to play as a child. All her time was supposed to be spent learning, practicing piano, doing chores, or in religious activities. Granted, her father was a German immigrant and that cultural factor probably played a role as well.

Edwin