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Sandalwood
Guest
that’s not true at all. it’s false, inflammatory statements like this that often give Catholics a bad reputation.
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Sandalwood
Guest
aww, thank you! I just don’t see that there needs to be such false statements given and that it has to be a me vs you environment. Aren’t we all children of a Loving and Merciful God? Isn’t bringing others to Christ what we are called to do? I think that’s a hard thing to do when we’re busy bringing each other down!Sandalwood, thank you for this. For clearing some things up and I must say your post has to be one of the nicest, most beautiful posts I have seen from a Catholic Christian towards other Christians here on CAF in all my time here. As far as the cross above the altar, I recently attended Catholic Mass at a church that had no cross above the altar. There was a cross on a stand off to the side. But I’m not sure what that might mean. In any case thank you so very much for your words. God bless you and peace be with you always. I do just have to say “Amen” to your post. And I trust I mean my “Amen”.
As far as the cross above the altar, I recently attended Catholic Mass at a church that had no cross above the altar. There was a small one off to the side on a stand.
Take care CMatt25!!
God Bless YOU!
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CMatt25
Guest
That is the Catholic Church’s faith and belief, yes. But just because Catholics state this, I’m not sure though makes it true to others that theirs is not. I’m pretty sure if you asked a Lutheran or Episcopalian they’d disagree with you that theirs is not holy. Or for that matter I’m not sure a Methodist or Baptist or other Protestant would agree their Communion service is not valid.
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CMatt25
Guest
Yes we are and I sometimes wonder if we Christians spend so much time dwelling on differences that we easily can lose sight there is far more that unites us than divides us and miss out on the bigger picture. A belief in Christ Himself being the most important of all. I recently had an Episcopal priest tell me she and one of her parishoners were disagreeing over a matter some yrs ago. Her question to the gentleman was whether he believed in one God and in Jesus? When the man said yes. She said so do I! So she said just because we disagree on this particular issue doesn’t mean we can’t worship together. And the fellow has been there every Sunday since. I just happened to have liked that story. Anyways thanks for your well wishes. You take care too.aww, thank you! I just don’t see that there needs to be such false statements given and that it has to be a me vs you environment. Aren’t we all children of a Loving and Merciful God? Isn’t bringing others to Christ what we are called to do? I think that’s a hard thing to do when we’re busy bringing each other down!
Take care CMatt25!!
God Bless YOU!
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CopticChristian
Guest
Sub,
I understand your perspective however when a Protestant invokes the Bible there is contention.
No Protestant will deny that the Bible is innerrant and every Protestant is fallible. The rub is then that how do you unlock the code to get the infallible, inerrant teachings from the source with only a fallible tool. I know that there is always the invocation of the Holy Spirit but then…
How do we rationalize and understand that your point does not coincide with the book you claim as your source…
The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth, The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known, The Church is the mystery by which gentiles are fellow heirs with Christ…and then when someone refuses to listen to his brother take it to the Church…where do we go,which Church…There are incurred too many dicrepancies that indeed make it difficult to wrap your mind around.
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ConsciousCoward
Guest
This is something that I’ve felt (and sometimes said) every time this argument comes up between me and one of my Catholic friends. In all honesty, there isn’t going to be any good discussion or progress made if one simply states their thesis without presenting any supporting arguments.
The idea that Protestant beliefs are based on what will bring in the most support is also something that I cannot help but think is a rather shallow view of the issue. While it is true that there are some churches that operate under democratic principles or with the intention of pleasing the masses to gain support/attendance, it is hardly the reason for most Protestant beliefs. In most cases, beliefs are approached from multiple angles, looking at historical theological views, how the specific belief fits in with the overall message of the Gospel, how it fits in with the Great Commission, and also, to an extent that varies from one denomination to another, what the general congregation believes and how it compares to the existing teaching.
I do apologize if this seems somewhat forceful as a response; I was looking through my old posts after being offline for some time and I realized that most of my posts were being misinterpreted as being particularly critical, forceful, or offensive, and that is most definitely not my intention.
God bless you all.
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CopticChristian
Guest
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CopticChristian
Guest
Rob,
You do well to study the views of the Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox and OHCAC as it concerns the Eucharist. What differs is the extent of the definition. I kind of look at the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox frozen in time at the time of the split and if you accept that then you can understand that all the Western Church has done is add definitions to what is accepted universally by the Oriental, Eastern and OHCAC. You may also find as I have found that Lutherans come very close to this understanding as well. The further you get from the OHCAC ie if you understand the family tree…
OHCAC begat the Anglican begat the Methodist begat the Holiness Movement from which begat the Pentacostal and all other forms of Protestant thought…the further from the origin the less defined the Lords Supper.
Baptists sprang forth at the time of the Reformed and remain a divided entity unto themselves.
I recently discovered that the Lutherans begat the Evangelical Church of Norway which begat the Evangelical Free churhches.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Which brand of Evangelical Church are you from?
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CopticChristian
Guest
Sdegutis,
The reason is because Jon is a confessional Lutheran and has provided his sources other than the Bible. We have other sources that we accept, ie Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium. In the case of Pentacotals they are not confessional and as I explained in the evolution of thought process are distant from their Anglican source.
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CMatt25
Guest
I don’t know about no, Coptic. Unless I am misunderstanding which is possible, here might be some who when asked if it was inerrant, said no.
religioustolerance.org/inerran4.htm
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CMatt25
Guest
I can’t say I can recall any of your other posts but I didn’t find this one critical or offensive at all. I think sometimes though on an internet forum especially one like this one that has as it’s prevailing faith a single one, that it can easily be misconstrued that someone who posts a disagreement with that particular faith is being critical of or offensive to it when as you said that is not the intent at all. In any case God bless you too.
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submariner2
Guest
coptic,
I am not Evangelical. I am Methodist. We do believe in a christianity based on experience of faith and love of God.
Rob
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submariner2
Guest
Thanks for the nod of respect. As to some of the teacings of the ELCA, the LCMS has been as outspoken about them as Rome has been in the past about, say, Old Catholics, or SSPX.
We don’ deny that there is division, and sadly, that division has also hurt Lutheranism, as well as the Church Militant in general.
And for those of the ELCA, I pray not only for those who have determined that, since the ELCA has drifted from orthodox confessional Lutheran teacher, they must no longer be in communion with the ELCA, but also with those who have decided to stay and work toward restoring confessional Lutheranism there.
Jon
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PeterJohn
Guest
Reading all these posts made me think.
I am realy super glad to see so many Protestants who have moved closer to the center of christianity(Catholicism) and are striving for ecumenism.
I 100% see these men and women as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I expect to see just as many of them on judgement day, preparing to enter into heaven as I do Catholics. I can’t blame them for believing what they believe. I believe in sacremental life thru apolstolic authority, and if someone led my forefathers into schism in the 1600’s I would hope Jesus would grant me mercy for having done what I thought was right. Being Only if I stayed true to the main philosophies of Christs teachings as so MANY Protestants do. The majority do.
Job was not instituted into a sacremental life by means of apostolic type succession as we’re the Hebrews of old, yet he practiced a type of this. I am not saying at ALL, that Protestantism as a whole should not seek communion along with there new(er) traditions with the bishops and the heir of Peter. I’m saying that seeing the protestant movements back towards sacramental life is a good sign of two things, one being that the schism is starting to heal and two, that the Holy spirit is working in their lives. GOD BLESS THE PROTESTANTS and may the Holy Spirit continue to guide them back, now with their new(er) traditions into communion within the “One, Holy, Apostolic Church”. There is hope for this secular world, and it’s future lies within re-unification of all Christs followers. The Catholic church is indeed apostolic, and is indeed infallible in matters of faith and morals, and is guided into truth, and kept safe from deviation of these truths by the Holy Spirit, BUT that doesn’t mean she is right all the time about how to handle every situation that comes along. Nor is she absolutely best suited to perform evangelism on this new secular world. BUT! She is best suited for being the pillar and bulwark of truth, and of reform for And between Protestants. If I could give advice to any Protestants seeking ecumenism AND unity between denominations, on matters of faith and morals as well as sacremental practices, look to the Catholic church for middle ground. Most(?) protestant denominations are fragments of catholicism and hold the very same truths Catholics do, just not all of them. If you were to add together most(?) Protestant denominations and trimmed the “fat” you would see a community of believers that would look (almost?) exactly like the Catholic church. If that happened, and they came into full communion with the sacrements and the heir of Peter, the new “Catholic” community would benefit so much. If tomorrow we woke up and the Anglicans, Baptists, episcopalians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, wesleyans, presbyterians, Methodists, and all others I forgot were in communion in the One, Holy, universal and Apostolic church, we as a whole could bring so much good into the world.
I am realy super glad to see so many Protestants who have moved closer to the center of christianity(Catholicism) and are striving for ecumenism.
I 100% see these men and women as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I expect to see just as many of them on judgement day, preparing to enter into heaven as I do Catholics. I can’t blame them for believing what they believe. I believe in sacremental life thru apolstolic authority, and if someone led my forefathers into schism in the 1600’s I would hope Jesus would grant me mercy for having done what I thought was right. Being Only if I stayed true to the main philosophies of Christs teachings as so MANY Protestants do. The majority do.
Job was not instituted into a sacremental life by means of apostolic type succession as we’re the Hebrews of old, yet he practiced a type of this. I am not saying at ALL, that Protestantism as a whole should not seek communion along with there new(er) traditions with the bishops and the heir of Peter. I’m saying that seeing the protestant movements back towards sacramental life is a good sign of two things, one being that the schism is starting to heal and two, that the Holy spirit is working in their lives. GOD BLESS THE PROTESTANTS and may the Holy Spirit continue to guide them back, now with their new(er) traditions into communion within the “One, Holy, Apostolic Church”. There is hope for this secular world, and it’s future lies within re-unification of all Christs followers. The Catholic church is indeed apostolic, and is indeed infallible in matters of faith and morals, and is guided into truth, and kept safe from deviation of these truths by the Holy Spirit, BUT that doesn’t mean she is right all the time about how to handle every situation that comes along. Nor is she absolutely best suited to perform evangelism on this new secular world. BUT! She is best suited for being the pillar and bulwark of truth, and of reform for And between Protestants. If I could give advice to any Protestants seeking ecumenism AND unity between denominations, on matters of faith and morals as well as sacremental practices, look to the Catholic church for middle ground. Most(?) protestant denominations are fragments of catholicism and hold the very same truths Catholics do, just not all of them. If you were to add together most(?) Protestant denominations and trimmed the “fat” you would see a community of believers that would look (almost?) exactly like the Catholic church. If that happened, and they came into full communion with the sacrements and the heir of Peter, the new “Catholic” community would benefit so much. If tomorrow we woke up and the Anglicans, Baptists, episcopalians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, wesleyans, presbyterians, Methodists, and all others I forgot were in communion in the One, Holy, universal and Apostolic church, we as a whole could bring so much good into the world.
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Sandalwood
Guest
outstanding post. thank you. well said. It’s nice to see someone feel as you do!Reading all these posts made me think.
I am realy super glad to see so many Protestants who have moved closer to the center of christianity(Catholicism) and are striving for ecumenism.
I 100% see these men and women as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I expect to see just as many of them on judgement day, preparing to enter into heaven as I do Catholics. I can’t blame them for believing what they believe. I believe in sacremental life thru apolstolic authority, and if someone led my forefathers into schism in the 1600’s I would hope Jesus would grant me mercy for having done what I thought was right. Being Only if I stayed true to the main philosophies of Christs teachings as so MANY Protestants do. The majority do.
Job was not instituted into a sacremental life by means of apostolic type succession as we’re the Hebrews of old, yet he practiced a type of this. I am not saying at ALL, that Protestantism as a whole should not seek communion along with there new(er) traditions with the bishops and the heir of Peter. I’m saying that seeing the protestant movements back towards sacramental life is a good sign of two things, one being that the schism is starting to heal and two, that the Holy spirit is working in their lives. GOD BLESS THE PROTESTANTS and may the Holy Spirit continue to guide them back, now with their new(er) traditions into communion within the “One, Holy, Apostolic Church”. There is hope for this secular world, and it’s future lies within re-unification of all Christs followers. The Catholic church is indeed apostolic, and is indeed infallible in matters of faith and morals, and is guided into truth, and kept safe from deviation of these truths by the Holy Spirit, BUT that doesn’t mean she is right all the time about how to handle every situation that comes along. Nor is she absolutely best suited to perform evangelism on this new secular world. BUT! She is best suited for being the pillar and bulwark of truth, and of reform for And between Protestants. If I could give advice to any Protestants seeking ecumenism AND unity between denominations, on matters of faith and morals as well as sacremental practices, look to the Catholic church for middle ground. Most(?) protestant denominations are fragments of catholicism and hold the very same truths Catholics do, just not all of them. If you were to add together most(?) Protestant denominations and trimmed the “fat” you would see a community of believers that would look (almost?) exactly like the Catholic church. If that happened, and they came into full communion with the sacrements and the heir of Peter, the new “Catholic” community would benefit so much. If tomorrow we woke up and the Anglicans, Baptists, episcopalians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, wesleyans, presbyterians, Methodists, and all others I forgot were in communion in the One, Holy, universal and Apostolic church, we as a whole could bring so much good into the world.
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sdegutis
Guest
Of course: my answer is that the infallible Magisterium has given us an interpretation which tells us that the Oneness Pentecostals are wrong. What’s your Lutheran church’s reasoning, which believes that the Magisterium can and has erred? Why do they think they are right and the Oneness Pentecostals are wrong?
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