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The Nazis started in Bavaria? Germany was splintered into various ethnic identities: Bavarian, Swabian, Sudeten. Even the language reflected that. High German, Platte Deutsch. And who was Hitler? An Austrian. The Catholic Church outlined to the new Reich, what powers were retained by the Vatican and specified assurances between the Church and the Reich regarding the treatment and rights of German Catholics. That was the reason for the Konkordat. Anyone with half a brain knew the Germans were rearming by the time Hitler showed up.
He pulls together many sources, historical and phlosophical to explain Hitler. The Luther quote was his attempt to explain why so many Protestants followed him. I think it is an oversimplification. What I like about it is that this one of the few examples that I have come across that acknowledges that something went terribly wrong and there was a need to reflect on why it happened. I have read Bonhoffer. I am aware of several examples of heroic protestants. I am just frustrated that Catholics seem to corner the market on blame and responsibilty for the rise of Hitler.
What? Only ignorant people blame Catholics for Hitler. Anyone who studies Hitler would know that he was extremely anti-Christian.
To be fair where is the Protestant version of Mit brennender sorge? How many Protestant clergy were sent to concentration camps, I am sure some were sent but not in the same numbers as Catholic clergy for speaking out against the Nazis Auschwitz had a whole wing just for Catholic clerics? Where were the American Evangelical churches in condemning Hitler, the New York Times which is no friend of the Catholic Church wrote the Pope Stands Alone condemning Hitler, not once but Twice in their editorial pages.
And to be fair, you’re doing exactly what I am trying to get across is sickening. You’re making an “us vs them” when it comes to our two beliefs. Equating Protestantism with Nazism is a horrible and incredibly mean, baseless thing to do. I understand frustrations of the ignorant pointing to Catholicism as a reason for Nazism because that would make me angry if I was a Catholic; just like this topic is making me angry as an Evangelical.
That is not what this thread is about. What I am trying to say is more like this: “We Catholics have shared some responsibility for the rise of Nazi Germany. I don’t see Protestants doing the same.” I asked for people to provide sources that show otherwise. Some have been provided. I made clear to say I am not seeking to discredit Protestantism. Can you really say that Protestants had nothing to do with the rise of Nazi Germany? Had no responsibility?
The Barmen Declaration.
Do we really need to play this game? I don’t know what the relative numbers were.
What is your point and how does it relate to the topic?Gentlemen -the majority of the Nazi leaders were raised Catholic
Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, sceptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and confirmed as a child in Austria, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood.
Goebbels had intended training for the priesthood, but after losing his Catholic faith[4] he studied literature and philosophy at universities in Bonn, Würzburg, Freiburg im Breisgau and Heidelberg, where he wrote his doctoral thesis on the 18th century romantic novelist Wilhelm von Schütz. His two most influential teachers, Friedrich Gundolf and his doctoral supervisor at Heidelberg, Max Freiherr von Waldberg, were Jew
Heinrich Luitpold Himmler was born in Munich on 7 October 1900 to a conservative Roman Catholic middle-class family. His father was Gebhard Himmler, a teacher, and his mother was Anna Maria Himmler (née Heyder), a devout Roman Catholic
I did not compare Protestantism to Nazism, I am trying to show how the Reformation did not strengthen Christianity at all instead it weakened it and it has allowed for people to dissent on anything in Christianity they don’t like and to create their own view of what Jesus really meant which is what the Nazis did with Positive Christianity. We have chaos and people pervert Christianity all the time now. You know what is irritating is that horrid play The Deputy that accuses and bares false witness against Pope Pius XII for not speaking out against the Holocaust which was written by Rolf Hochhuth who came from one of the oldest Protestant families in Germany. To this day people especially Jewish people believe Pius did nothing and was indifferent because of this play and it hurt the Church’s relationship with our Jewish brothers and sisters which is still strained today in part because of this play.
They did. That’s common knowledge. I don’t know what you think the Reichskondordat has to do with the question (of where the Nazis originated).
Absolutely everyone could, but being upset that Catholics get blamed more than Protestants and then pointing to Protestants only hurts Christianity in general. How stupid must I look if I blame Catholics for Nazism and then an Atheist says, “See, even Churches that believe in the NT supported Hitler.” It’s an ignorant thing to do from both sides, I believe that Protestants should defend Catholics and Catholics should defend Protestants against lies about either Church.
Can you give me actual quotes from Hitler or the Nazi party it’s self supporting your claim about Protestants?
Which claim?
