Protestantism, Luther, and the rise of Nazi Germany

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It saddens and sickens me that this kind of hate filled diatribe is allowed here. I know the RCC hates Luther, but, to blame the atrocities of Hitler on Father Martin is enough. This is what I meant that the mods let RCCs get away with more than the Protestants.
That’s possible – like a lot of other people, I don’t always read every post by every Catholic (either by using CAF’s built-in ignore feature, or in my case usually just “on the fly”) just as presumably if I participated on a protestant forum I wouldn’t read every post by every protestant.
 
I regularly participate in an academic conference that focuses on just this topic – the role and failures of Christian churches in the Holocaust. It was first started by Franklin Littell, a Protestant Holocaust scholar. I highly recommend his seminal work on the topic: The Crucifixion of the Jews: The Failure of Christians to Understand the Jewish Experience.
Thanks for the recommendation.

I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts about what more both churches could have done.

God bless,
Ut
 
For me, I think the discussion has been candid and polite especially given the subject matter at hand. Sure, you can take a few posts as sort of pot shots against Lutherans, but frankly I’m impressed with the rationality shown here so far.
The OP has been most gracious.

Jon
 
Thanks for the recommendation.

I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts about what more both churches could have done.

God bless,
Ut
My pleasure. And my thoughts on the subject are fairly limited in scope – I study and work in the field of Holocaust studies but the topic of Protestant churches isn’t my area of specialty (I participate in the conference to which I referred but I typically participate in its panels on representations of the Holocaust in literature and film). Littell’s book should be able to offer far more – he was exceptionally regarded by both Christian and Jewish communities. I can say, however, that in answering a question like “what more could Christian churches have done,” the scholars with whom I’m familiar would not approach the answer from a practical standpoint. That is, the moral righteousness of potential actions is not necessarily predicated on the effectiveness of each.
 
My pleasure. And my thoughts on the subject are fairly limited in scope – I study and work in the field of Holocaust studies but the topic of Protestant churches isn’t my area of specialty (I participate in the conference to which I referred but I typically participate in its panels on representations of the Holocaust in literature and film). Littell’s book should be able to offer far more – he was exceptionally regarded by both Christian and Jewish communities. I can say, however, that in answering a question like “what more could Christian churches have done,” the scholars with whom I’m familiar would not approach the answer from a practical standpoint. That is, the moral righteousness of potential actions is not necessarily predicated on the effectiveness of each.
thanks for the recommendation of the book, I too will try to read it. I hope it is on kindle.
I think the question of what Christians (Catholic and Protestant) could have done is very tricky because what would be considered effective changes with the time. I think people critize Pope Pius because and based on today’s standards, he didn’t “speak out enough”. However the Bishops of Netherlands did issue a clear condemnation of Hilter in the beginning of their occupation and then Catholics and Jews were further retaliated and then this was deemed not to be effective, but working quietly behind the scenes was considered as the way to go. Today’s standards is confrontive, the 30-40’s is was not the standard mode of operation. So I would guess that would fit as by scholars don’t go down that road.
 
I don’t think it’s fair to lump together an entire religion based on one example. People do this to Catholics all the time and it really annoys me.

It’s sad but Anti-Jewish sentiment was widespread in Europe during this period, not just in Germany. Everyone should share the blame in this regard.
Shocking! You flat out support the heresy of Modernism.
 
The US Holocaust Museum has a informative section of the role of German churches during the Holocaust

ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005206

In sum, both Christian churches largely turned a blind eye to the Holocaust for a variety of reasons, especially at the leadership level. Despite this, there were Christians at the individual level who did try to help, and even died doing so (ex. Bonhoeffer)
Your beloved New York Times wrote Pope Stands Alone Condemning Hitler not once but twice.
 
No there actually is a heresy of Modernism in the Catholic Church don’t judge until you really understand what Catholics believe when the say this. We have neo modernism going on right now.

ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/MODERSM.TXT
I’m familiar with the Church’s criticisms of modernism. And I still don’t understand how you’re connecting this topic with Liberal Princess’ post.
 
No there actually is a heresy of Modernism in the Catholic Church don’t judge until you really understand what Catholics believe when the say this. We have neo modernism going on right now.

ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/MODERSM.TXT
Thanks for the link; it did help me better understand what Catholics mean when they speak of Modernism. Discussing it further would derail the thread, though, so I’ll stop with that. But, Liberal Princess was simply advocating the Golden Rule— in this case, in its negative form.
 
A lot of American Catholics unintentionally support Modernism and some do it intentionally but Americans are the most prone to succumbing to this heresy in the universal Church. It will be a long time before we get an American Pope because the rest of the universal Church is extremely skeptical of American Catholics while we are extremely generous with our money we tend to be the least Catechized and Catholics will directly go against Church teaching and not think too much about it. We will give poor women food but also encourage them to abort their babies because you know we don’t want to over populate the world and make you more poor, poor people have large families but thy are also happy and you can teach natural family planning. One feature of Modernism is that there is an emphasis on not hurting other people’s feelings who are not Catholic. You should always be tolerant of people because they are made in the image and likeness of God but not of ideas and principles.
 
I am a long way from being an apologist for protestantism. Still, I think it’s a stretch to attribute Nazism to Protestanism generally or to Luther specifically, except in one way only.

It needs to be remembered that Hitler was anti-Christian. He killed Protestants too. Yes, he established a Reichskierke, but it seems pretty plain that he would have stamped out Lutheranism as well as Catholicism if he could have done it. At some point he probably would have done it, but he needed both for cannon fodder.

Now, I don’t pretend to be a historian, but it’s true that Luther and his movement did encourage a radical sort of independence on the part of the North German princes. He was, in that sense, the apostle of their hearts’ preexisting desires for independence and autarky. That Protestantism encouraged a tight nationalism in opposition to the more polyglot and diffuse Holy Roman Empire is not seriously questioned.

But Frederick’s Prussia was perhaps the most “nationalistic” of all. It saw “Germany” as something wider than its own boundaries or even the boundaries of those who were linguistically German. As the later Bismarck maneuvered to unify the German states by “blood and iron” as he put it, he ultimately pressured and sometimes simply forced the Catholic states and some of the reluctant protestant states in to a “supernation” so powerful and so dominant on the continent that he created what was, for its time, a one-ethnicity “empire”; a very aggressive “superpower”. At the time, of course, Prussia was a resolutely Protestant state. Unlike the southern Germans, the warlike Junker class was very protestant and quite contemptuous of the southern German people. The Catholic southern Germans were not inclined to become part of the pan-German superstate, but didn’t have sufficient power to resist it…not even Bavaria. Had Bismarck been able to crush Catholicism in Germany for the sake of 'supernationhood", he would have. It was only because he had to deal with the resistant German parliament that he couldn’t. It wasn’t so much his devotion to Protestantism that motivated him as it was his belief in an utterly unified and disciplined state; Frederick’s Prussia writ large.

Hitler fell heir to all of that. Hitler was a liar and a trickster, but he had a good nose for those things Germans had an affinity for. Hitler, of course, played on the “pan German” idea, annexing Austria and the Sudentenland. And he played on the “supernationalism”, and in that he did gain the support of what was left of the Junker class. He was the monsterous doppelganger of something that had been going on in Germany for a long time. He did have more Protestant than Catholic support, but again, he would have turned Protestantism into something much more like paganism in time if he had the chance, and a lot of protestants would have died in the exercise.

Had Protestants and Catholics seen through the tricks and the lies early on, he would not have gained a power no one in Germany could defeat, despite his strong appeal to an excessive German nationalism; a nationalism that was more north German than south German, but which, by then, all shared to some degree.

So, to the extent that Luther and Lutheranism encouraged a nationalism that became aggressive, ethnocentric and destructive, I guess one could say there is a link. But it’s the kind of link in which the ultimate outcome would not likely have been perceived at the outset, and one in which there was a relationship but not an inevitable metamorphosis.

The irony of all of it is that Luther himself probably encouraged it as a way of protecting himself. The Empire was not friendly toward him. In doing so, though, he did open a pandora’s box, the ultimate effects of which he doubtfully foresaw.
 
The rise of Hitler had little to do with religion it had to do with horrible economics and being blamed for World War I. The Nazis were just a tad smarter than previous European dictators and realized fighting Christians backed fired every time it was tried they knew Christians would resist a ban on their faith and they would be willing to die for it so they just let them continue and only silence them if they had to. The Nazi leadership quoted scripture to make it seem like they were just regular Christians but their ultimate goal was in fact rid Christianity overtime and replace it with the Nazi faith. Alfred Rosenberg was the architect of this movement.

There is an important lesson to take away from this because of poor catechesis people didn’t know their faith well and could be manipulated and go along with these abominations. So we do have some blame here and we need to consider that this appears to be happening again now in the US.
I posted this two days ago obviously no one read it and thought I meant something else.
 
They have simply soaked up all the nonsense from the surrounding culture, be it relativism, or political correctness, or the faulty notions of tolerance making the rounds. They sound just like pagans as they decry truth, wallow in moral relativism, and effectively deny their own Bibles.

They are theologically mushy. They have lost the ability to discern, to spot truth from error, and to tell right from wrong. They are Christians in name only, holding to a worldview which any secular humanist would proudly cling to.

The rise of postmodernism and epistemological relativism has greatly contributed to this, as well as a dumbing down of the average Christian, who tends to be biblically illiterate. Many of these shallow believers simply imbibe of whatever trendy fashions the world is now offering.

Catholics are usually far less Biblically literate than Protestant who are usually much better it’s why the Southern Baptists looked like theological rock stars in the last election and Catholics voted for a guy who supports rampant abortion. At least Hilary Clinton said abortion was tragic, the President thinks it is a right and is now forcing Americans to violate their conscience.
 
And I have a problem with the last line of that, where is the proof and who is making these claims.
My family is from Germany and grew up in Nazi Germany, no one hated Jewish people or were taught to hate Jewish people at home or at Church. My own father is named after my grandmother’s childhood friend who was taken away by the Nazis and sent to a concentration camp.You can’t lump people together right and you really should know where your sources are from before you assume that secular sources or other denominations or religions sources are correct. Very few people including Catholics believe Pope Pius condemned Hitler, everyone conveniently forgets that when he died, Israel had the largest delegation at his funeral or that the New York Times editorial board not once but TWICE stated Pope stands Alone in Condemning Hitler or that 41 babies were born in the papal apartment during World War II when the Vatican and all the Catholic monasteries, abbies and churches in Rome hid our Jewish brothers and sisters and it is because Pious wanted to insure they had a chance to live and to respect the dignity of motherhood. That horrid play The Deputy has done serious damage to his reputation and the reputation of the Catholic Church with our Jewish brothers and sisters. Luckily John Paul II and Pope Benedict and now Pope Francis have had good relationships with our Jewish brothers and sisters and our relationship is getting better but we cannot stand around and say oh everyone was an anti-Semite all over Europe case closed.
 
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