Protestantism over time - Orthodoxy or Liberalism

[eliasaph99]

As an armchair historian, I have drawn the conclusion that Protestant denominations tend to become either more orthodox (i.e. closer to Catholic thought) or insufferably liberal over time.

The time period in question for each denomination or church is from the date of its founding. I know that many churches start out “very conservative, sir, very conservative” (as a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist Preacher once described himself to me), but the minute they are founded, the clock begins to tick.

I think this is because the theology they are founded with is usually to simplistic to deal with the world. It doesn’t answer hard and dilemma-like questions. As those questions arise, the sum of the churches responses pushes them towards orthodoxy or liberalism.

Anyone agree or care to comment?

 

[JimO]

Interesting observation. It’s like entropy, things naturally go from a state of order to disorder without the (name removed by moderator)ut of energy - energy being the Truth.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Some time ago I read a well done essay that showed that the grandson of a Puritan tends to become a Liberal. * Haven’t been able to find it again.*

 

[RNRobert]

In the 15th chapter of John’s Gospel, Jesus tells us that he is the vine and we are the branches, and that we cannot bear fruit unless we abide in him. I believe that as Protestants rejected his Church, they gradually withered.

 

[Alexius]

As an armchair historian, I have drawn the conclusion that Protestant denominations tend to become either more orthodox (i.e. closer to Catholic thought) or insufferably liberal over time.

The time period in question for each denomination or church is from the date of its founding. I know that many churches start out “very conservative, sir, very conservative” (as a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist Preacher once described himself to me), but the minute they are founded, the clock begins to tick.

I think this is because the theology they are founded with is usually to simplistic to deal with the world. It doesn’t answer hard and dilemma-like questions. As those questions arise, the sum of the churches responses pushes them towards orthodoxy or liberalism.

Anyone agree or care to comment?

I totally agree ! I noticed the same thing recently, too! It seems that the closer one gets to the Reformation, the more “catholic” the church. The newest churches, though, seem to be the most modern, liberal, and progressive. They seem to be either schismatics from another Protestant church, or “cult-type” groups with loud (and often wrong ) prophetic voices.

Makes sense to me…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I totally agree ! I noticed the same thing recently, too! It seems that the closer one gets to the Reformation, the more “catholic” the church. The newest churches, though, seem to be the most modern, liberal, and progressive. They seem to be either schismatics from another Protestant church, or “cult-type” groups with loud (and often wrong ) prophetic voices.

Makes sense to me…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Someone, I think Chesterton, commented that only a Catholic can come up with a well founded heresy. I think that echoes your thought.

 

[apophasis]

As an armchair historian, I have drawn the conclusion that Protestant denominations tend to become either more orthodox (i.e. closer to Catholic thought) or insufferably liberal over time.

The time period in question for each denomination or church is from the date of its founding. I know that many churches start out “very conservative, sir, very conservative” (as a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist Preacher once described himself to me), but the minute they are founded, the clock begins to tick.

I think this is because the theology they are founded with is usually to simplistic to deal with the world. It doesn’t answer hard and dilemma-like questions. As those questions arise, the sum of the churches responses pushes them towards orthodoxy or liberalism.

Anyone agree or care to comment?

Even an armchair historian has read what was going on in Rome during the Middle Ages (800 - 1500 + A.D.) …and how it got there. Strong, Biblically based Protestant churches go neither liberal or closer to “Catholic thought.” They become more Christ centered, not man centered, more Biblically based, not traditionally based.

 

[eliasaph99]

Even an armchair historian has read what was going on in Rome during the Middle Ages (800 - 1500 + A.D.) …and how it got there. Strong, Biblically based Protestant churches go neither liberal or closer to “Catholic thought.” They become more Christ centered, not man centered, more Biblically based, not traditionally based.

Obviously, I disagree.

There are many assumptions and implications in what you’re saying that I also disagree with but this isn’t the thread to take all that on.

To respond to your last sentence, the Catholic Church is the most Christ centered organization on the planet. To become more Christ centered as an organization is to become more like the Catholic Church.

To give a better example of what I’m alluding to, here is a quote from the “Church of the God of Prophecy” website. This is a pentecostal denomination.

It was a strong desire to rely solely on the Bible that led the early pioneers of the church to declare their willingness to be free from all man-made creeds and traditions, to take the New Testament as their only rule of faith and practice, and to give each other equal rights and privileges to read and interpret the Bible as their consciences might dictate. These basic tenets remain intact today; however, as the church grew and spread throughout the world, it was seen that there was safety in a “multitude of counselors” when making doctrinal decisions. Thus, today, all doctrinal matters are agreed upon in one accord by the General Assembly.

Here is the link to the cited website:

cogop.org/about/beliefs.cfm

Notice how the church was founded with a strong desire for individual interpretation of the scriptures. But, as time went on and the church had to deal with different controversies and problems of the world, they sought safety in a “multitude of counselors” who now decide their doctrine. I certainly see a shadow of the magisterium in this organizational development. Give’em another 1500 years and they’ll be ready to join the Roman communion.

If only they would realize that they’re solving problems that the Catholic Church dealt with almost 2000 years ago. I mean, how many different shaped wheels do we need anyways?

As for me, I’ll stay with the original design, thanks.

 

[Vigis]

I notice the same thing almost all of the time. Their are some if not many that are in small town communities that manage to remain moderate or wherever their original way was. God speed.

 

[Brian_C]

Even an armchair historian has read what was going on in Rome during the Middle Ages (800 - 1500 + A.D.) …and how it got there. Strong, Biblically based Protestant churches go neither liberal or closer to “Catholic thought.” They become more Christ centered, not man centered, more Biblically based, not traditionally based.

…and anyone more than an armchair historian would know that what was going on in Rome was only a part of why the reformation happened.

 

[eliasaph99]

…and anyone more than an armchair historian would know that what was going on in Rome was only a part of why the reformation happened.

Even as an armchair historian, I know that the “righteous indignation” of the reformers had an amazingly small amount to do with the reformation.

Even a cursory examination of Luther’s writings and beliefs reveals some real shockers…

 

[Brian_C]

Agreed.

 

[rtconstant]

Over all I think I see your point. Cetainly the mainline protestant churches are either all but submitting to the pope or are jumping off the leftmost cliff they can find. Or at least it seems that way.

Evangelicals were rapidly going the way of the left for awhile there too. However, I’m seeing a new trend within them that is bothering me. Either they are taking their reformation theology to its utmost degree and are becoming “non-denominational” institutions -OR- they seem to be desolving into the Charismatic movement (sometimes both). Currently the charismatic movement has outstriped the Baptist movement in membership. I’m also seeing almost all evangelical ministers who are on TV are now part of the prosperity gospel movement (i.e. name it and claim it).

To me this direction is even worse than leaning left (as that tends to take care of itself). It seems now that evangelicals don’t even bother with [t]trying to be theologically, biblically, or historically sound. It seems like whatever random idea that pops into a preacher’s head becomes a new movement or doctrine. Services are becoming stage shows, and ministers aren’t even trying to hide their greed.

Don’t get me wrong I realize that there are evangelical denominations who don’t indulge in all of this but when we see the strongest of the “historical” evangelical churches the Baptists start to drop their names for more non-denom sounding names it tells me that the writing is on the wall for even that great evangelical bastion. Then what will be left of the evangelical movement? Creflo A. Dollar and Paula White will be replacing Billy Grahm.

Maybe I’m reading to much into this but has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Veritas41]

As an armchair historian, I have drawn the conclusion that Protestant denominations tend to become either more orthodox (i.e. closer to Catholic thought) or insufferably liberal over time.

The time period in question for each denomination or church is from the date of its founding. I know that many churches start out “very conservative, sir, very conservative” (as a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist Preacher once described himself to me), but the minute they are founded, the clock begins to tick.

I think this is because the theology they are founded with is usually to simplistic to deal with the world. It doesn’t answer hard and dilemma-like questions. As those questions arise, the sum of the churches responses pushes them towards orthodoxy or liberalism.

Anyone agree or care to comment?

That might be part of it, at least in the more fundamentalist churches, but from my experience as a Protestant, I think alot of it has to do with people not wanting to submit to truth, so they white-wash it and rationalize it and explain it away. Usually the original founders of churches are zealous and committed to their beliefs, but that may not be the case with those following in their footsteps. My observation wasn’t that denominations grew more conservative, but that as particular denominations grew more liberal, new churches were established that were conservative, going back to the beliefs of the original founders of the church.

 

[Brian_C]

Assemblies of God as well. The AOG where we take our kids to daycare has changed from First AOG of Shreveport (home of Evangel High School and the nationally ranked Evangel Eagles football team) has become Shreveport Community Church. Too funny.