Protestantism the one True Chruch?

[Montie_Claunch]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

 

[LRThunder]

Ask them this question: if Protestantism is the “one, true Church,” how could it have emerged 1500 years after the apostles who were taught directly by Jesus himself? And how could so many denominations have varying views on doctrines and disciplines?

 

[George_Craft]

Hi Montie,

I’d like to share this if I may. It may not be the orthodox view, but it makes total sense to me.

Jesus never said to the apostles “Write the Bible”, He told them to teach and spread the Gospel throughout the world. (Mark16:5) The New Testament is an expression of a part of their teaching.

This authority to teach was given by Jesus to the apostles and passed on to those whom they ordained. (Ignatius, Iraneus, Polycarp, Barnabas…) (Acts 14:23; Titus1:5)

In keeping with His promise to send the Holy Spirit, Jesus has been guiding His apostles through the centuries in an ever deepening understanding of His teachings. Please ask them who is the authority on earth to teach them. The Holy Spirit isn’t an acceptable answer, because if it was the Holy Spirit, they would be in total agreement, not fragmented.

To go back to the Bible alone is to deny the Holy Spirit’s 2000 years of guidance.

With love,
George

 

[thistle]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

Well of course all that is just nonsense.

Protestantism is not a Church. There are about 33,000 Protestant denominations. Whoever you heard saying that should tell you which of the 33,000 he thinks is the true Church and why.
Even the 50 US states have a central government.

Its also up to him to tell you what the so-called heresies and inventions of the Catholic Church are and what is his evidence.

By the way I didn’t read in the Bible that Jesus established his Church on Martin Luther!! It was on Peter. The Catholic Church has an unbroken line right back to Christ himself. Whatever Protestant church you choose its not older than 500 years.

Never respond to vague generalisations.

 

[petra]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

I would inquire about what those necessary doctrines are. If they say, “Doctrines that are central to salvation,” I would then ask, “Then why is there no consensus among Protestants about how one is saved, whether salvation can be lost, and if it is lost, how it is restored?” Some Protestants believe that baptism is necessary, some don’t. Some believe speaking in tongues is proof that one is saved, others (most) do not. Some believe that salvation can never be lost, others believe it can. Who decides what those essentials are, anyway?

Protestants (as a worldwide Church) are not unified in practice either. They do not fast together, they do not share in the Body and Blood of Christ together. Each local church is an island. They rarely have anything to do with other congregations.

I used to be Protestant, so I know where they are coming from. The purported unity is that of the Holy Spirit, which is not untrue. All Christians who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are united to an extent. However, Christ had much more in mind for His Church. He desired that we be unified in truth, worship, and practice–and visibly so.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I’m not even going to comment on this thread. I do want to address though, that the unity between Protestants is Christ. How does this make them “the false church”?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

ONE BODY MANY PARTS…
Unity and Diversity in the Body
1 Cor 12:
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but** all its many parts form one body**, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by [c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 

**27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it**. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues [d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire [e] the greater gifts.

This means all believers, who know that Christ is all that is needed for salvation.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Holy preachin’ Batman! Amen! spot on!

 

[runandsew]

ONE BODY MANY PARTS…
Unity and Diversity in the Body
1 Cor 12:
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but** all its many parts form one body**, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by [c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 

**27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it**. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues [d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire [e] the greater gifts.

This means all believers, who know that Christ is all that is needed for salvation.

Amen, I believe this passage 100 percent, but unfortunetly it is speaking about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, and not about different denominations.
I think it is St. Paul that speaks about being weary of people that preach a different Gospel, I think that passage would relate to all the different denoms better than what you quoted.

I don’t think that the Protestants are a “false church”, but I do believe they do not have the fullness of the truth that is found in the Catholic Church, though they have many of the truths.
I feel that you should be able to trace the one true church in an unbroken line of apostolic sucession all the way from the apostles, and the Catholic Chruch can do that with the Bishops of Rome. How far back can you trace your church?

 

[tabcom]

**The Church

John 10:3,4,11,27,28 - he calleth his own sheep by name - the sheep follow him for they know his voice - the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep - my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me - and I give unto them eternal life.

Ephesians 5:25 – Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.

* church - Greek: ekklesia - "a calling out"; hence "the called" of God.

Proverbs 20:12 – The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

Isaiah 50:5 – He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned - the Lord God hath opened mine ear.

Matthew 11:15 – He that hath ears to hear, let him hear –

* hear - Greek: akouo - to understand by imperative command; having the same effectual work of God as when he said "Let there be light" - It is so.

In ancient Israel the kingdom was considered a sheepfold, ruled by a shepherd-king. The subjects were called sheep (Ezek. 34:2-10). The whole people of Israel was designated “the church” as a divinely called congregation. The early Christians believed themselves to be this “church” or true sheep of Israel. Stephen spoke of this church being in the wilderness with Moses (Acts 7:38). The church (called out) and sheep are equivalent terms. The sheep are “called out” of this world to live righteously as the kingdom of God (Luke 17:21).

**

 

[quasimodo]

It is true that there is only one baptism and that validly baptized persons are part of the Body of Christ. In that sense Protestants are members of the One True Church. But not fully so because Truth matters. Since the first day of the reformation, protestants have been developing mutually exclusive theologies which cannot all be true. In so far as they hold false teachings they are separated in some degree from the One True Church.

By this time, many many doctrines are in dispute under the Protestant tent. If you make the tent big enough to include their progeny such as the JWs and Mormons and Oneness types, virtually every conceivable doctrine is disputed so that the only thing they all have in common is that they are not Catholic.

Unpleasant words, perhaps, but true nonetheless.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

The Church

John 10:3,4,11,27,28 - he calleth his own sheep by name - the sheep follow him for they know his voice - the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep - my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me - and I give unto them eternal life.

Ephesians 5:25 – Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.

*** church - Greek: ekklesia - “a calling out”; hence “the called” of God.**

Proverbs 20:12 – The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

Isaiah 50:5 – He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned - the Lord God hath opened mine ear.

Matthew 11:15 – He that hath ears to hear, let him hear –

*** hear - Greek: akouo - to understand by imperative command; having the same effectual work of God as when he said “Let there be light” - It is so.**

In ancient Israel the kingdom was considered a sheepfold, ruled by a shepherd-king. The subjects were called sheep (Ezek. 34:2-10). The whole people of Israel was designated “the church” as a divinely called congregation. The early Christians believed themselves to be this “church” or true sheep of Israel. Stephen spoke of this church being in the wilderness with Moses (Acts 7:38). The church (called out) and sheep are equivalent terms. The sheep are “called out” of this world to live righteously as the kingdom of God (Luke 17:21).

yep. all those biblical verses are the word of God. Your personal interpertation of them is not.

There are sheep then there are goats both of the same flock.

This “church” or true sheep of Israel is the Catholic Church.
Any protestant claim to be the same “true sheep” must be traced through the Catholic Church. The protestant “true sheep” didn’t form themselves in 1540 something from a man outside of the age of the apostles. Did they?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

John 10:3,4,11,27,28 - he calleth his own sheep by name - the sheep follow him for they know his voice - the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep - my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me - and I give unto them eternal life.

Calvinists use this verse and many others to “prove” Calvinism.

This “church” or true sheep of Israel is the Catholic Church.
Any protestant claim to be the same “true sheep” must be traced through the Catholic Church. The protestant “true sheep” didn’t form themselves in 1540 something from a man outside of the age of the apostles. Did they?

I still believe the true Church is the Body of Christ. Each and every Christian who believes in Jesus Christ. This is what being a Christian is. Also, don’t forget that Luther was chased out of the Catholic church. He didn’t just leave freely and make up a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Whether or not he was right, the fact is he was still chased out. What was the Catholic church’s justification for doing this?

 

[scylla]

The Catholic Church really is not to blame with Martin Luther.

Martin Luther complained about abuses that he saw, which he rightfully did so in complaining about.
Then after they started talking about it, it seems he kept changing until some Church officials asked him to reject some of his errors and he wouldn’t.
Then finally after asking him to respond several times they excommunicated him.
(now this part is a little murky and probably is due to sins of people on both sides, of Martin Luther’s pride and the pride of some people in the Catholic Church)
He didn’t want to change or listen to the Church.
(this is disputed in some ways and can be a nice discussion)

This doesn’t make the Church wrong it just shows that there are always sinners in the Church who sometimes do the wrong thing.

So he was excommunicated and excommunication is biblical, whether or not is is used correctly depends on the situation. There is very little chance for anyone to be excommunicated unless they do something very serious and wont repent.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Matt 18: 17

Hopefully that answers Martin Luther ok,
The bad actions of people in the Church doesn’t prove it wrong as that has been happening since Jesus appointed Apostles.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Randy_Carson]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

In another thread, I have posted an extended passage from Dominus Iesus, a document issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It reads in part:

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”. In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

I, personally, see logic in this statement and it’s something I’m going to take up with my local pastor and see how he feels about it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Originally Posted by Montie Claunch
I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

I, personally, see logic in this statement and it’s something I’m going to take up with my local pastor and see how he feels about it.

Saying there is spiritual unity in Protestantism ignores the serious splits in Protestantism. Protestants are hoist by their own petard – they must deny the Kharisma of infallibility in order to justify splitting from the Church, and as a result cannot claim they have that Kharisma.

In the end, they have no positive doctrine to advance, and when you ask them, “Is it possible you are wrong,” they must say “yes.”

 

[rr1213]

Saying there is spiritual unity in Protestantism ignores the serious splits in Protestantism. Protestants are hoist by their own petard – they must deny the Kharisma of infallibility in order to justify splitting from the Church, and as a result cannot claim they have that Kharisma.

In the end, they have no positive doctrine to advance, and when you ask them, “Is it possible you are wrong,” they must say “yes.”

There are serious divisions among Protestants. On the other hand, there is more unity among Protestants than Catholics understand or can admit. I can say that having been a member or having attended a number of Protestant Churches (and, yes, I use “Churches” notwithstanding Dominus Iesus) and having participated in bible studies with Protestants of various faiths.

 

[scylla]

I understand that there is unity between Protestants in that I can go to one Bible study at the Baptist Church and then another at the Methodist Church.
Once we disagree over doctrine then we have to kinda put that aside and concentrate on our similarities in that both the Bible is considered the Word of God.

This does foster a relativistic attitude though which is very easy to accept these days but denies that truth is knowable and exists.

This was called the Opium of Truth by Dr Marra.
keepthefaith.org/detail.aspx?ID=21
I would suggest any person of faith buy this, heck it is only a buck and is really not offensive to anyone, even if you are a hyper Catholic or a hyper Evangelical Protestant.
It is a talk that speaks about the current thought on truth and how to talk about it to others.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[vern_humphrey]

There are serious divisions among Protestants. On the other hand, there is more unity among Protestants than Catholics understand or can admit. I can say that having been a member or having attended a number of Protestant Churches (and, yes, I use “Churches” notwithstanding Dominus Iesus) and having participated in bible studies with Protestants of various faiths.

That depends on what you mean by “unity.” Are they united in rejecting Catholicism? Of course – that’s what “Protestant” means. Protestants define themselves negatively.

But find me a positive Protestant doctrine different from Catholicism and I can find you a Protestant church that rejects that doctrine.