Protestantism the one True Chruch?

[runandsew]

There are serious divisions among Protestants. On the other hand, there is more unity among Protestants than Catholics understand or can admit. I can say that having been a member or having attended a number of Protestant Churches (and, yes, I use “Churches” notwithstanding Dominus Iesus) and having participated in bible studies with Protestants of various faiths.

Well, yes there is spiritual unity, but there is spiritual unity between Catholics and Protestants also, if you consider that we both believe in the Trinity, that Jesus died for our sins, in the virgin birth, that we are saved by Gods grace alone. I have participated in bible studies with Protestants and have found a great many of insights they have on scripture, but does that there be more unity that Catholics or Protestants understand or can admit. I would say the answer is yes and no.
I feel that this thread is trying to explain the “invisible” Church, which is fine, but Jesus established a visible Church with structure and leadership.
You can trace this Church from when Jesus established it to this very day. And when they say the invisible Church is not with invention. You have to keep in mind that Sola Scriptura was never taught in the Church until the 1500’s, so either it was hidden from the Church for so very long, or it was an invention.
The Catholic has put down the heresies through out the ages, one can look at the many councils of the Church to show this. When some Protestants say that the Catholic Church “invented” something, that is just plain wrong, they were not inventing something, they were putting down a heresy.
They did not invent the Trinity, or the real presence in the Eucharist, or the canon of scripture at Trent, they were responding to heresies. It is as plain as the nose on your face, if you are willing to accept it.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Saying there is spiritual unity in Protestantism ignores the serious splits in Protestantism. Protestants are hoist by their own petard – they must deny the Kharisma of infallibility in order to justify splitting from the Church, and as a result cannot claim they have that Kharisma.

In the end, they have no positive doctrine to advance, and when you ask them, “Is it possible you are wrong,” they must say “yes.”

How does being spiritually united, especially the trinitarian sects, ignore the splits? You’re missing the point of this thread. We are all brothers and sisters in the same Christ our Lord. The same could be said about Protestants and Catholics too.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Take a tour of Protestantism. Compare Lutherans with Evangelical Lutherans. Look at Unitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Latter Day Saints. Compare Baptists with Pentecostals. You will see a wide variety of conflicting beliefs – some deny the Virginity of Mary, some deny the Divinity of Christ. Some have their own Bible in addition to what everyone else uses.

Go to each of those widely disparate sects and ask, “Is it possible you are wrong?” If they are honest, they must answer “yes” – because they reject infallibility (as they must.) Then ask, “Is it possible, then that other church – the one that rejects what you teach – is right, then?”

What must the answer be?

 

[Damascus]

I am a little leary about this one. If I recall correctly, that would mean that a true church is a free for all and the only thing you need is Jesus.
"all you need is Love ba ba ba ba bah…

Sounds a bit like something the serpent told Eve, “eat it, so you shall know all things”

I am not eating this poison! Blech.

 

[vern_humphrey]

How does being spiritually united, especially the trinitarian sects, ignore the splits?

You have a different concept of “spiritually united” if you can advance it in such a fragmented field.

I note that you point out that some Protestant sects are not trinitarian. Are they “spiritually united,” with other Protestants, too?

You’re missing the point of this thread. We are all brothers and sisters in the same Christ our Lord. The same could be said about Protestants and Catholics too.

To say we are all Christians is one thing. To say we are all equally in possession of the truth is another.

 

[runandsew]

Actually after thinking about it, the 50 United States of America analogy would fit the Catholic Church better.

Let’s see the United States has an executive branch with the President, the legislative branch with the Congress and Senate, and the judicial branch with the Supreme Court.
It has the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

The Catholic Church has the Pope, the College of Cardinals, the Bishops and the Magisterium. There is the Bible and the Catechism.

This could go deeper, but I think you get the general picture.

 

[ldv]

This may not be the right answer but it sure comes to mind when I hear these kind of things:

2 Timothy Chapter 4

4:3. For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

4:4. And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables.

“Seek The Truth!”

 

[Randy_Carson]

Actually after thinking about it, the 50 United States of America analogy would fit the Catholic Church better.

Let’s see the United States has an executive branch with the President, the legislative branch with the Congress and Senate, and the judicial branch with the Supreme Court.
It has the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

The Catholic Church has the Pope, the College of Cardinals, the Bishops and the Magisterium. There is the Bible and the Catechism.

This could go deeper, but I think you get the general picture.

Yes. If all you had was the Constitution, you would have a good starting point, but the Supreme Court ultimately interprets that document.

It always comes back to who interprets, doesn’t it?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yes. If all you had was the Constitution, you would have a good starting point, but the Supreme Court ultimately interprets that document.

It always comes back to who interprets, doesn’t it?

Which is why Christ promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church and sent the Paraclete.
The Kharisma of infallibility is basic to His Church.

 

[Alexius]

Where does it end? If there is a kind of “unity” among Protestant churches, at least when it comes to “major” doctrines, then what makes a doctrine a “major” doctrine? You can list many issues, but when it comes down to the truth, the lack of a unifying force or guide has only caused more splits. Apparently, if the “major” doctrines were all that separated the Protestant churches, then they would not continue to slinter !

They will all trace back to the acceptance of Sola Scriptura. If Sola Scriptura worked, all would agree! The fact is that we humans use our own interpretations of Scripture! We must realize that we are not infallible in our personal interpretations of Scripture. This is something Luther should have realized…He told counsels, bishops, and even the Pope Leo that whatever the decisions of each were, he would submit. Well, as history has showed, he did not obey .

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius**

 

[rr1213]

Yes. If all you had was the Constitution, you would have a good starting point, but the Supreme Court ultimately interprets that document.

It always comes back to who interprets, doesn’t it?

Yes, the Supreme Court is our civil magisterium. And the Supreme Court has blown it innumerable times by ignoring the plain language and intent of the Constitution resulting, in many instances, in a political system that bears only a passing resemblance to the original Constitutional structure.

 

[Alexius]

Yes, the Supreme Court is our civil magisterium. And the Supreme Court has blown it innumerable times by ignoring the plain language and intent of the Constitution resulting, in many instances, in a political system that bears only a passing resemblance to the original Constitutional structure.

Yes, but they don’t have the Holy Spirit or Christ’s promise to be with them…

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, but they don’t have the Holy Spirit or Christ’s promise to be with them…

Bingo!

 

[JesusOnly]

Ask them this question: if Protestantism is the “one, true Church,” how could it have emerged 1500 years after the apostles who were taught directly by Jesus himself? And how could so many denominations have varying views on doctrines and disciplines?

What you guys don’t understand is that although our teaching may be slightly different, we all believe that Jesus is the only way. Not through rituals and man made traditions. We’ve turned to him comletely in faith. We worship him with all of our soul, mind, and strength. While it is true that some believe in healing and others do not. Or some believe in tongues and others do not. Some think the rapture will happen mid way through tribulation and others before. But what we all have in common is that we put Jesus first and the baptism of the holy spirit which now saves. NOT THE BAPTISM OF WATER.

Faith in Jesus only.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What you guys don’t understand is that although our teaching may be slightly different, we all believe that Jesus is the only way. Not through rituals and man made traditions. We’ve turned to him comletely in faith.

With all due respect, you’ve turned to **yourselves **completely in faith. You have rejected His gift of infallibility and set yourselves up as judges over His word.

We worship him with all of our soul, mind, and strength. While it is true that some believe in healing and others do not. Or some believe in tongues and others do not. Some think the rapture will happen mid way through tribulation and others before.

And many reject the rapture en toto, since it is based in a bad translation.

But what we all have in common is that we put Jesus first and the baptism of the holy spirit which now saves. NOT THE BAPTISM OF WATER.

Including those who reject the Divinity of Christ?

 

[Alexius]

What you guys don’t understand is that although our teaching may be slightly different, we all believe that Jesus is the only way. Not through rituals and man made traditions. We’ve turned to him comletely in faith. We worship him with all of our soul, mind, and strength. While it is true that some believe in healing and others do not. Or some believe in tongues and others do not. Some think the rapture will happen mid way through tribulation and others before. But what we all have in common is that we put Jesus first and the baptism of the holy spirit which now saves. NOT THE BAPTISM OF WATER.

Faith in Jesus only.

Actually, I do understand you ! It makes perfect sense to my evangelically-tuned mind! Believe it or not, a few years ago I was arguing the same point (not on this forum, though) and would totally have agreed with you! To me, the problem with Catholics (and Orthodox, whom I never knew existed back then…) was their attachment to man-made tradition and superstitious rituals. I remember thinking, “It’s a shame they don’t read the Bible - they would see that we can’t work our way into Heaven. I wish they would see that they just need to believe in Him and trust His Word…” Well, the rest is history !

I find it important that you define what “faith” and “faith alone” means. From there, it will be easier to understand some of your beliefs on the salvific work of Christ on the cross. I find it also important to point out that many Protestants do believe baptism is a necessary part of eternal life. In other words, there is no entrance into Heaven, unless one is “born of water and the Spirit” - Born again! Somehow many Protestant Christians hold to this tenent of the Faith and yet still believe in “justification by faith alone.” If you can explain what “faith alone” means to you, it will be more easily understood by others…

Prayers and petitions in Christ!
Alexius

 

[Abira]

I would say that anyone who rejects the divinity of Christ is by definition not a Christian and therefor not part of the protestant church…

this is just my logic and not my view on the thread as a whole though.

 

[rr1213]

Yes, but they don’t have the Holy Spirit or Christ’s promise to be with them…

I knew you were going to say that. Or Randy. Actually I did. Of course we have a different viewpoint of what that promise means.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

You have a different concept of “spiritually united” if you can advance it in such a fragmented field.

I note that you point out that some Protestant sects are not trinitarian. Are they “spiritually united,” with other Protestants, too?

No, since they do not accept God as we know Him.
vern humphrey:

To say we are all Christians is one thing. To say we are all equally in possession of the truth is another.

I’ll agree with that!

 

[hengcymatthew]

I heard someone talking about how Protestantism was the one true church. Saying that there is a “Spiritual Unity” between the Protestant churches that the “Neccesary” doctrines of Salvation lay within and not a bunch the “Herisies and inventions” that are in Catholicism making it a false church. He said that Protestantism was like “Just as athe 50 states of the United States have various names and local governments but all belgong to on nation”. What should one thing of this and what would be the orthadox thing to say? Thanks and God bless.

A one true Church stays together …as ONE. that’s all i have to say. God bless