Protestants, a new twist on Mother Mary and the rosary

[ClearWater]

I, like many other Catholics, believe that Mary has also asked us to pray the rosary, for our own good. Well, saints have told us how demons can’t stand the rosary, will do whatever they can to get it stopped.

The Blessed Virgin Mary told us if we would all pray it, we’d have peace, for one thing, and I believe it.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Lutherans take the middle position. We agree with Protestants that Christ is our sole Savior; how can we need more? But we also believe that every person Jesus associated with is to be revered and honored. The passage of Christ into our world was through the most holy Mother of God.

 

[rcwitness]

Lutherans take the middle position. We agree with Protestants that Christ is our sole Savior; how can we need more? But we also believe that every person Jesus associated with is to be revered and honored. The passage of Christ into our world was through the most holy Mother of God.

Apparently James thought Jesus does not work alone in bringing Salvation to us.

James 5:19,20

19.My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20. let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Apparently James thought Jesus does not work alone in bringing Salvation to us.

James 5:19,20

19.My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20. let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

This is not an issue between Lutherans and Catholics per Declaration on Doctrine of Justification. I have prayed & pulled the bells of the Angelus on retreat many times. It is a personal devotion that not all Lutherans practice.

 

[rcwitness]

This is not an issue between Lutherans and Catholics per Declaration on Doctrine of Justification. I have prayed & pulled the bells of the Angelus on retreat many times. It is a personal devotion that not all Lutherans practice.

I felt your comment implied Catholics dont believe in Christ’s sole place in Salvation simply because we observe the means that Jesus shares His work of salvation through His Saints.

 

[marywarfield]

Too much misunderstanding. Perhaps threads on
Mary should begin with a prayer for her help.

O Mary, conceived without sin,
pray for us who have recourse to thee,
and for those who do not have recourse to thee,
especially the enemies of the Church
and those recommended to thee,
Amen.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Too much misunderstanding. Perhaps threads on
Mary should begin with a prayer for her help.

O Mary, conceived without sin,
pray for us who have recourse to thee,
and for those who do not have recourse to thee,
especially the enemies of the Church
and those recommended to thee,
Amen.

I can join that beautiful prayer though will frame it more as a devotion to Our Lady and recognizing that Our Lord’s Mother prays for us; we have that latitude in Lutheranism. However we do not require that belief from other Christians to be united in the Mass.

 

[rcwitness]

However we do not require that belief from other Christians to be united in the Mass.

So I am not in misunderstanding of your statement, could you explain this a little?

Really, I am not offended. I just feel you are trying to separare your faith from ours in ways Im not sure are existing.

I personally, come from a point of view that does not have a particular devotion to the Rosary, and am attracted to unwritten prayers, devotion to Scripture and formal Teaching. My, almost sole expression of written prayers and the Rosary come from Mass participation and fullfiling a Reconciliation penance if asked of me.

 

[Memaw]

That still doesn’t answer my question, because I’m legitimately curious.

After confession; for penance does a Priest often say to say “X” number of hail Mary’s?

Whatever the penance the priest gives us should be said with our heart and soul, knowing we are deserving of much more and also knowing we shouldn’t stop there but add our own heartfelt prayers of THANKSGIVING to Jesus for giving us the beautiful Sacrament of Reconciliation. Don’t forget, whenever we say a Hail Mary, we are asking Our Blessed Mother to PRAY for us NOW and at the HOUR of our death. The two most important times in our life. The present moment and the moment of death. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Symphorian]

Whatever the penance the priest gives us should be said with our heart and soul, knowing we are deserving of much more and also knowing we shouldn’t stop there but add our own heartfelt prayers of THANKSGIVING to Jesus for giving us the beautiful Sacrament of Reconciliation. Don’t forget, whenever we say a Hail Mary, we are asking Our Blessed Mother to PRAY for us NOW and at the HOUR of our death. The two most important times in our life. The present moment and the moment of death. God Bless, Memaw

Recently our Rector was in India and endured a perilous bus journey in the mountains. It was so nerve wracking that the passengers were fearful of going over the edge to meet their deaths. In desperation they asked our Rector to teach them a prayer - they learnt the Hail Mary!

 

[EvangelCatholic]

So I am not in misunderstanding of your statement, could you explain this a little?

Really, I am not offended. I just feel you are trying to separare your faith from ours in ways Im not sure are existing.

I personally, come from a point of view that does not have a particular devotion to the Rosary, and am attracted to unwritten prayers, devotion to Scripture and formal Teaching. My, almost sole expression of written prayers and the Rosary come from Mass participation and fullfiling a Reconciliation penance if asked of me.

We believe the same my friend. Lutherans uphold the perpetual virginity and celebrate Mary’s assumption into heaven [8/15]. Luther prayed the rosary pondering her immaculate conception but also urged that we not dwell on the “Queen of Heaven” if it detracts from Jesus…

 

[marywarfield]

We believe the same my friend. Lutherans uphold the perpetual virginity and celebrate Mary’s assumption into heaven [8/15]. Luther prayed the rosary pondering her immaculate conception but also urged that we not dwell on the “Queen of Heaven” if it detracts from Jesus…

How can Mary being Queen detract from Jesus???
He’s the King.

 

[rcwitness]

We believe the same my friend. Lutherans uphold the perpetual virginity and celebrate Mary’s assumption into heaven [8/15]. Luther prayed the rosary pondering her immaculate conception but also urged that we not dwell on the “Queen of Heaven” if it detracts from Jesus…

I dwell on the queen of heaven in its more prominent meaning,…

God produced from Israel a bride who is called His Church. I am an imperfected member who finds recourse in her perfected member Mary. As Luther acknowledges, we find this in our obedience to Christ.

 

[marywarfield]

Maybe before going further we should first clarify
what Mary’s actual goal is.
Mary calls sinners to her Son in the Church with
a compassionate Mothers love. She leads them to
repentance, conversion and Baptism in His Name.
Then she continues to support, nourish and help them
grow in faith, hope and charity. And she protects her own
from onslaughts of the devil and relativism.

Now what part of Mary being Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Evangelizers, detracts from Jesus?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I dwell on the queen of heaven in its more prominent meaning,…

God produced from Israel a bride who is called His Church. I am an imperfected member who finds recourse in her perfected member Mary. As Luther acknowledges, we find this in our obedience to Christ.

Martin Luther preached Mary as immediately following the holy Trinity; only Jesus is higher in heaven as we proclaim at the Feast of Christ the King.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Martin Luther affirmed Mary.

I go to a Lutheran church weekly with a client. Today was Mother’s Day, but in this congregation there was no reference to Mother Mary, although there was given great respect and gratitude to all mothers. Very nice congregation.

I see likewise some of the same beliefs of the Eucharist, but I would say they emphasize singing where we Catholics are more adoration oriented during the Mass, and many of us sing lousy like myself.

The depth of faith in the Eucharist and how we treat the Eucharist is different from the Lutherans. And the more we go into sacramental prayer…that is adoration of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, we enter more deeply into sacred mysteries, and with this new insight and relationship, we return to Mass with greater depth and understanding of these very mysteries.

In them, in the sacred mysteries, we come to ponder Mary more. She is creature like us but especially chosen and redeemed by God, saved by Christ, to be His mother and then our mother, and she holds a special place in salvation to help us.

I think as a Catholic we are very community oriented, that is inclusive of those who have gone to the Lord before us, and that includes our Blessed Mother.

Yesterday I attended this annual Mother’s Day Luncheon that honored our Heavenly Mother as well as all of us and also those who have no children but are spiritual mothers in the Lord. We have this community that includes those in heaven, another sacred mystery.

 

[rinnie]

Now we have the sorrowful Mysteries.

The Agony in the Garden, here we learn probably the most important lesson, perseverance of prayer, Patience.

The scourging at the pillar. We learn our spirits are renewed for the sacrifices of each day, Don’t despise little things. pay attention to detail. fruit of this message self-control.

The crowning of thorns, we learn compassion for those who are mocked and rejected, and ask for forgiveness for our part in doing it to others, Fruit Moral Courage.

The Carrying of the Cross, We are asked to help Jesus carry this cross, in standing up for injustice and changing or environment in a positive way. Fruit, laying down our lives for others.

The Crucifixion, How pain and evil comes from our sins. Fruit Surrender.

 

[rinnie]

Last one.

The Glorious Mysteries

The Resurrection WE learn the reality of life after death. Mystery Faith

The Ascension. Our work to continue spreading the good news of Jesus. Mystery Hope

The Descent of the Holy Spirit. We are reminded to use the Holy Spirit in us to do good. Mystery Wisdom

The Assumption reminds us of purity in mind body and spirit. Fruit Purity

The Crowning of Mary Queen of Heaven. We are taught to seek counsel of those who attained virtue in their lives. Fruit friendship with Mary.

So if you go through all of these they are really a help for us.

They really have nothing to do with Mary! It a help for us using the word of God and praying it.