Protestants and alcohol

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I agree. They are wrong if they are not listening to their church discipline. But there are some Methodists who perform gay marriages in violation of their church’s stance as well.
They are wrong for trying to tie theology into their social preference. If they don’t want to drink alcohol or support it, fine. Don’t create a theology out of fiction, misquoting the Traditions of the Church and Scripture to do so.
 
I thought Baptists were the staunchest anti-alcohol denomination around (the denomination, not individual members)… seems they can go to an event serving alcohol and publicize/perform/evangelize/whatever, but can’t host one??

delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/05/18/food-festival-fantastic-conclusion/9268395/

First Christian Church, Portland, Oregon, Disciples of Christ:
npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/11/03/242301642/to-stave-off-decline-churches-attract-new-members-with-beer

Campbellite on Beer:
stonedcampbelldisciple.com/2009/01/09/beer-the-bible-what-the-bible-really-says-about-it/

A very interesting perspective, One Big, Happy, Lie: Southern Baptists, Alcohol and Me:
internetmonk.com/archive/one-big-happy-lie-southern-baptists-alcohol-and-me
There are hundreds of types of Baptists. There are Baptists who still follow the “no slacks, no tracks, and no blacks” rules. And there are Baptists who join wholeheartedly with NARAL–heaven help us.

The hallmark of being Baptist is the ability to break away and start a new church if there is a serious disagreement.
 
I see a big difference between a church hosting an event with alcohol and attending a non-church event where alcohol is present. I think the staunchest anti-alcohol denomination is the United Methodist denomination. Their social principles specifically condemn alcohol:

umc.org/what-we-believe/the-social-community#alcohol-drugs
Oh, I don’t agree with this. My parents-in-law attend a United Methodist Church (they’re involved in church life there, he as a trustee, and she in various women’s ministries). The church is definitely open to alcohol use. They allow a bar to use their church parking lot free of charge whenever church is not in session.

I have friends who attend various United Methodist churches in our city. Alcohol is definitely allowed.
 
They are the hosts of the various Wine/Cheese, Beer festivals, and they sell tickets to it for money. Why does it matter whether its on their premises or a rented space?
As I have said earlier, a lot of Evangelical Protestant churches/denominations have relaxed their stance on alcohol. The Mainlines relaxed their stance on alcohol decades ago. I’m 57, and I can’t remember a time when the Mainline denoms condemned alcohol use. In my lifetime, they’ve always been in favor of freedom to drink.

I think it would be interesting to research and see which of the churches you’ve provided links for are also pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. I’m not just talking about “compassionate” towards those who seek abortions or who seek gay marriage. I’m talking about honkin’ politically involved with promoting abortion and gay marriage.

Many of the mainline denominations have thrown in their lot with the pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage lobbies. So sad. It’s one of the main reasons they’ve lost members in droves over the last few decades.

Of course, the issues of alcohol use and abortion/gay marriage are totally separate. But at the very least, their awful willingness to twist Scripture and Christian tradition throws into doubt ANY policy that they hold.
 
I think you are incorrect, Protestantism is a mixed bag, no two alike. The one church you were with may be complete opposite of another and both call themselves “evangelical”, “protestant” and/or anything else:
There is a difference between “Evangelical” as in Lutheran and generic Protestant (as it is commonly used on the European Continent) and “Evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”.

The “United Evangelical Church of Canton” is not “evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”. The United Evangelical Church of Canton is part of the United Church of Christ which is a mainline and raging liberal denomination. The UCC has origins in a merger between the “Evangelical * and Reformed Church” and the “Congregational Christian Churches”.

The fact that you are linking to United Church of Christ congregations to “prove” that evangelicals don’t have a problem with alcohol use just goes to show that you don’t have a firm grasp on the differences between major groups of Protestants.

I find it strange that you would tell Cat, who has stated that she came from an evangelical background (as in Evangelicalism) that she is “incorrect” when you clearly are confused over the terminology at issue here.

You linked to Lutheran, Episcopal (Anglican), and some “community churches”. One of the "community churches, “Christ Community Church of Greater Lansing” is actually affiliated with the American Baptist Churches (ABC/USA) denomination, which is more of a mainline (moderately liberal) Protestant denomination rather than evangelical. It goes without saying that Lutheran and Episcopal Churches cannot be said to automatically adhere to Evangelicalism.*
 
There is a difference between “Evangelical” as in Lutheran and generic Protestant (as it is commonly used on the European Continent) and “Evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”.

The “United Evangelical Church of Canton” is not “evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”. The United Evangelical Church of Canton is part of the United Church of Christ which is a mainline and raging liberal denomination. The UCC has origins in a merger between the “Evangelical * and Reformed Church” and the “Congregational Christian Churches”.

The fact that you are linking to United Church of Christ congregations to “prove” that evangelicals don’t have a problem with alcohol use just goes to show that you don’t have a firm grasp on the differences between major groups of Protestants.

I find it strange that you would tell Cat, who has stated that she came from an evangelical background (as in Evangelicalism) that she is “incorrect” when you clearly are confused over the terminology at issue here.*

Confused? Uh yeah…when you need a flow chart to follow along that might tell you something.
 
Confused? Uh yeah…when you need a flow chart to follow along that might tell you something.
Yes, it can be confusing. That’s why its unwise to tell someone with an evangelical background that they are “incorrect” just because you think you know Evangelicalism better than someone who actually lived it.
 
SyroMalankara—Going by the UMC’s statement itself (provided by James) there would be no grounds for booting or disciplining them. The statement says they support abstinence, as has historically by the Methodist stance, but now they also state alcohol may be used judiciously. The question of what’s judicious and what is isn’t arises here; but at any rate they’re not really breaking any hard and fast rules.

Along with the very good article from CT which Cat posted earlier, CT also features another interesting article this month on “The Teetotalers I Never Knew”, written by an Episcopalian with a Methodist Holiness background. IIRC, the writer has been a Methodist historian. Besides the CT article, she’s written a book on Methodists and temperance which I ordered. Her husband has been a poster on CAF for a long time and he’s one of the most knowledgeable and even-handed church historians on this site. From the book preview which I read, she seems to share those qualities herself, so I’m curious to read what she has to say.
 
There is a difference between “Evangelical” as in Lutheran and generic Protestant (as it is commonly used on the European Continent) and “Evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”.
Interesting, so those calling themselves “Evangelical” haven’t, even among themselves, sola scriptura, decided what that means.
The “United Evangelical Church of Canton” is not “evangelical” as in “Evangelicalism”. The United Evangelical Church of Canton is part of the United Church of Christ which is a mainline and raging liberal denomination. The UCC has origins in a merger between the “Evangelical * and Reformed Church” and the “Congregational Christian Churches”.*If Evangelical doesn’t mean evangelical, does reformed mean reformed, and congregational mean congregational? What about Christian?
The fact that you are linking to United Church of Christ congregations to “prove” that evangelicals don’t have a problem with alcohol use just goes to show that you don’t have a firm grasp on the differences between major groups of Protestants.
Protestants don’t have a firm grasp on the terms they use and assign whatever they feel like, how is anyone else supposed to “grasp” what an individual group decides it wants a term to mean for themselves alone and doesn’t apply to anyone else? This is beyond absurd.
I find it strange that you would tell Cat, who has stated that she came from an evangelical background (as in Evangelicalism) that she is “incorrect” when you clearly are confused over the terminology at issue here.
I am not confused. The usage is confused.
You linked to Lutheran, Episcopal (Anglican), and some “community churches”. One of the "community churches, “Christ Community Church of Greater Lansing” is actually affiliated with the American Baptist Churches (ABC/USA) denomination, which is more of a mainline (moderately liberal) Protestant denomination rather than evangelical. It goes without saying that Lutheran and Episcopal Churches cannot be said to automatically adhere to Evangelicalism.
You mean the “Evangelical Lutherans” are neither Evangelical nor Lutheran?? And the Sydney Anglicans are?

Just so you are aware, I was raised in a non-Catholic denomination for a few years of my childhood - I am well aware of the multiplicity and duplicity among protestant sects, aka the ‘every-man’s land of anything goes’, all a ‘guru’/‘pastor’/‘elder’/‘swami’/‘prophet’ needs is a Bible, lack of proper theological grasp or oversight, a garage or warehouse, and one or two to follow him or her.

How about this famous “evangelical” (??) pastor Rev. Billy Graham, is he evangelical, mainstream, liberal, congregational - is he out of the loop: “I do not believe that the Bible teaches teetotalism . . . Jesus drank wine. Jesus turned water into wineat a wedding feast. That wasn’t grape juice as some of them try to claim.” (3. “Carter Will Restore Confidence, Graham Says,” Miami Herald [December 26, 1976], section A, p. 18.)
 
Interesting, so those calling themselves “Evangelical” haven’t, even among themselves, sola scriptura, decided what that means.

If Evangelical doesn’t mean evangelical, does reformed mean reformed, and congregational mean congregational? What about Christian?

Protestants don’t have a firm grasp on the terms they use and assign whatever they feel like, how is anyone else supposed to “grasp” what an individual group decides it wants a term to mean for themselves alone and doesn’t apply to anyone else? This is beyond absurd.

I am not confused. The usage is confused.

You mean the “Evangelical Lutherans” are neither Evangelical nor Lutheran?? And the Sydney Anglicans are?

Just so you are aware, I was raised in a non-Catholic denomination for a few years of my childhood - I am well aware of the multiplicity and duplicity among protestant sects, aka the ‘every-man’s land of anything goes’, all a ‘guru’/‘pastor’/‘elder’/‘swami’/‘prophet’ needs is a Bible, lack of proper theological grasp or oversight, a garage or warehouse, and one or two to follow him or her.
There have been numerous other threads where people have very patiently given their time to explain the various usages of terms.
 
Interesting, so those calling themselves “Evangelical” haven’t, even among themselves, sola scriptura, decided what that means.
Just as those calling themselves “catholic” and “Christian” and “Orthodox” and “apostolic” . . . . Agreement on terminology is rare because you and I do not get to decide who uses what terms to describe, define or denominate themselves by.
If Evangelical doesn’t mean evangelical, does reformed mean reformed, and congregational mean congregational? What about Christian?
It really depends on who you ask. Are liberal mainline Presbyterians who support universalism “Reformed”? Are Baptists who believe in TULIP but reject infant baptism “Reformed”? It really depends on who is the one defining the term.

How are you using congregational? Are we talking about the specific denomination of Congregationalists of New England that are the descendants of the Puritans and who gave birth to the Unitarians? Or are we using “congregational” in the sense of any church who adheres to congregational polity, where the congregation (not bishops or presbyteries) governs the church?

Is a Christian anyone who has been baptized in the Trinitarian formula or is it a person who has repented of sins and confessed faith in Christ’s death and resurrection? Once again, how these terms are used, depends on the ones using the terms.
Protestants don’t have a firm grasp on the terms they use and assign whatever they feel like, how is anyone else supposed to “grasp” what an individual group decides it wants a term to mean for themselves alone and doesn’t apply to anyone else? This is beyond absurd.
But this is language and human nature. You cannot control what people call themselves. People like to call themselves by terms that have meaning.

During the Reformation in the sixteenth century, Luther called his followers the evangelische Kirche (evangelical Church). This term** evangelische** (evangelical, “of the gospel”) was what Lutherans and later other Protestants called themselves. Therefore, in Europe, the term evangelische became a term that equates to “Protestant” or more specifically to “Lutheran”. This is why many churches in America that are Lutheran or united Lutheran and Reformed designate themselves “Evangelical”.

The first usage has origins in continental Europe. Another usage of “evangelical” has origins in the Protestant Revivalism that marked both 18th and 19th century America and Britain. This “Evangelicalism” stressed the need for conversion and was heavily influenced by German pietism, which stressed personal experience over participation in church ritual.

During the early 20th century, the mainline Protestant churches became hostile to Evangelicalism due to increasing theological modernism. This led to the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy and the rise of Christian Fundamentalism. By the 1940s, a group of evangelical leaders wanted to distance themselves from Fundamentalism and all of its cultural baggage so they began to call themselves “the new Evangelicals”. They created the National Association of Evangelicals and welcomed a broad range of “evangelicals” into the new coalition. They were led by Billy Graham.

The German language has a helpful way to distinguish the two usages. Evangelisch refers to the more broader sense of “Protestant”. The word evangelikal refers to Evangelicalism.

Evangelicalism is a broad movement. And no one on this thread has meant to imply that that all evangelicals teach total abstinence. But it is a common teaching and a common way of life.
You mean the “Evangelical Lutherans” are neither Evangelical nor Lutheran??
They are “Evangelical” in the Lutheran sense of that word. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America chose their name because Lutherans had always called themselves “evangelical”. They did not choose that name because they wanted to be associated with Billy Graham or John Wesley or George Whitefield or Jonathan Edwards or Charles G. Finney or a host of other leaders of evangelical revivalism.
And the Sydney Anglicans are?
Evangelical, Reformed, and Anglican.
How about this famous “evangelical” (??) pastor Rev. Billy Graham, is he evangelical, mainstream, liberal, congregational - is he out of the loop: “I do not believe that the Bible teaches teetotalism . . . Jesus drank wine. Jesus turned water into wineat a wedding feast. That wasn’t grape juice as some of them try to claim.” (3. “Carter Will Restore Confidence, Graham Says,” Miami Herald [December 26, 1976], section A, p. 18.)
Abstinence from alcohol never defined Evangelicalism. No one on this thread has said it did. All we are saying is that it is a feature of many evangelical churches. Billy Graham is certainly an evangelical.

For your information, Rev. Graham also said the following:

It is my judgment that because of the devastating problem that alcohol has become to America, it is better for Christians to be teetotalers except for medical purposes. . . . The creeping paralysis of alcoholism is sapping our morals, wrecking our homes, and luring people away from the church. [Editorial, “Graham on Drink: Don’t,” Christianity Today (February 4, 1977): 63.]

It is one thing to recognize that the Bible nowhere says alcohol is sinful and another to advocate the large scale use by Christians. Billy Graham is distinguishing between biblical prohibition, but he is also saying that alcohol is often far more destructive in American society than it is beneficial. And in that way, he is squarely in the evangelical tradition.
 
Since Billy Graham has apparently become the be all and end all of Evangelicalism on this thread, I thought it would be interesting to link to a portion of what Graham wrote in 1960 in My Answer, page 131.
I have no patience with people who get intoxicated, but do you think a little social drinking to promote good fellowship does any harm?
Of course it does. Can you be blind to the fact that one drink often leads to another? In every city I visit someone asks me to pray for a husband, or wife, or son who started as a social drinker and now has become an alcoholic. Today you think you have perfect self-control. But if you make a habit of drinking what will you do when you face anxiety or disappointment?
You also have some responsibility for the welfare of your neighbor. Your example may lead him into a habit he cannot break. If you encourage him to do anything which brings his downfall, you are guilty. And don’t forget that alcohol is the cause of many of our traffic accidents, and a man who commits murder on the highway because his responses are slow, or he doesn’t see where he’s going, is guilty in the sight of God.
Our bodies are the temples of our souls. We must treat them with respect. The Bible says: “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God” (I Corinthians 10:31). This is a command no Christian should ignore.
Even though this was written in 1960, it is still reflective of how many evangelicals feel about alcohol. It is not primarily because we think that Scripture prohibits it (there are some who try to argue that but their arguments are not convincing to most people). Rather, it is because in terms of Christian witness and discipline the negatives outweigh the positives.
 
So far in this thread I’ve been trying to express the fact that abstinence of alcohol and its trade within the Church (activities outside Sacraments, save the Cup) and our events should not be prohibited. My reasons are that neither our Lord abstained from drinking, nor committed His disciples to do so, and also our Church has not determined the moderate and responsible consumption of alcohol to have intrinsic wrongfullness to warrant and support such a difficult and complex task of uprooting a very traditional pastime which has deep family roots in buisiness, trade, fellowship and joy.

Now, I would like to readily give an honest commendation to you who have stressed the danger and destruction which alcohol is and has always been capable of. My own Grandfather was an alcoholic. He was Irish and the only Catholic in my family, though I cant stress enough the fact that he was non practicing. I didnt get to know him well enough to know why he didnt practice, though I dont believe he completely abandoned his faith. He passed away some time before I became Catholic. A couple cousins, from his side of the family, have gone through problems with drinking, but have had little to do with church until recently. A brother in law gave up drinking quite some time ago as a result of poor control and negative mood change when he did drink.

Now, I have moved to Brasil to live with my married family. They are all Catholic and most drink very moderately. However, the focus has been on my father in law! He is a pleasant and functioning drinker, but I have been trying to stress to my wife the serious grip I think alcohol does have on him. I have been compelled by this thread to examine my drinking, and its influence on my FIL.

What I believe, is we should practice fasting during times of trouble and temptation. Alcohol should be something many people fast and keep under control. I dont like to talk much about pesonal fasting, as according the our Lord, we should conceal our fast in order to be genuine before God. My desire to fast alcohol at this time is for two reasons. I want to condition myself against temptations. And I want to petition the Lord to compel my FIL to examine his drinking.

I believe the issue of abstinence and fasting alcohol should be a matter of personal devotion and intention. I do agree with those who have been stressing the importance to avoid that which leads others to sin. In this way, I agree and support efforts to influence and compel others to avoid abusing alcohol by acts of personal abstinence and fasts with which can have commendable value for avoiding responsibility of causing others to stumble.
 
Confused? Uh yeah…when you need a flow chart to follow along that might tell you something.
When you grow up Evangelical Protestant, you learn to recognize which churches, fellowships, and para-church organizations are “Evangelical” and which are not. You don’t even have to do a lot of investigation–little clues in policies, behaviors, even music, will cue you in that an organization is “Evangelical:” and therefore “safe.”

That’s probably one of the reasons why the alcohol issue is so emotional to Evangelical Protestants and ex-Evangelical Protestants like me. It used to be that ALL Evangelical churches, fellowships, organizations, colleges, and PEOPLE were alcohol-free, and that was one of the clues.

Now we can’t use alcohol policies as a clue to Evangelicalism, because some denominations, churches, non-denoms, para-church organizations, and especially PEOPLE are drinking alcohol, and according to Sylomalankara’s links, it’s possible that some Evangelical churches are offering a version of “Theology on Tap.”

That’s tough to accept, when you grew up with the teaching that alcohol use is sinful.

Catholics, some of you are still emotional over the loss of the Latin Mass and many of the traditions that used to be hallmarks in the Catholic Church, e.g., veiling for women, priest facing front instead of people, pipe organ music or chant in all Masses, dressing up for Mass, etc. And some of you believe that the Catholic Church “went down the wrong path” after Vatican II.

One possibility that occurs to me upon following this thread and the other thread about alcohol in the Social Justice section is that perhaps as drinking becomes more “normal” (or “ordinary”!) in the Evangelical Protestant world, perhaps this will make it more likely for them to visit and learn about the Catholic Church. In the past, alcohol use by Catholics was a huge wall that Evangelicals couldn’t and wouldn’t climb over. To Evangelicals, alcohol use was sinful, and since Catholics used alcohol, they were practicing sin, and according to the Bible, that meant they weren’t Christians, which meant that their church wasn’t Christian, and that was the end of it. The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it.

But if alcohol use is “de-sinned” in the Evangelical Protestant churches, non-denoms, para-church organizations, etc., it won’t be an issue anymore, and Evangelical Protestants may swarm into the Catholic Church as they study it and recognize that it is entirely Biblical, the Most Biblical Church of All.

And that would be a good thing.

In the meantime, like it or not, fellow Catholics, alcohol use by Catholics still keeps many Evangelical Protestants outside of the doors of any Catholic Church or Catholic event/organization. That is my Answer to the OP’s query and I stand by it.
 
Everything you describe when you talk about thinking of the other is when you attend their events you conform to their culture. What you and Bart have suggested through this thread is that Catholics conform their events to the possibility of offending others.

By the way I have know a few Hindus who never said anything about meat for months, but after knowing them and holding some longer conversations (ironically at a bar/restaurant) found they, underneath the well mannered ignoring of it, were very uncomfortable with the idea of eating meat.
Honestly, I don’t see anything so horrible about Catholic parishes ceasing the use of alcohol at their parish events.

I think it would set a good example in the communities. Certainly no one would criticize the parishes; on the contrary, I think many people in the community would praise them for not taking any chances with safety and health.

Many of our community organizations have alcohol-free policies. E.g., all the hospitals in my city are alcohol-free and ENFORCE this. No one is allowed to bring wine to lunch and drink it in the cafeteria, or have a party on campus that offers alcohol, or have meetings on campus that include alcohol use.

Most of the businesses and companies in our city are alcohol-free. People aren’t allow to drink on the job, or while they are doing business with the company.

Our award-winning Park District is entirely alcohol-free. Our Park District is truly amazing–I’ve lived in other cities and so have my daughters, and we recognize that our Park District is deserving of winning all the awards that it wins. And the policy is “NO ALCOHOL” at any Park District activity. Yes, even at Park District hockey games!

We have a lot of locally-owned restaurants and even a locally-owned grocery store chain that do not sell alcohol, and these places are thriving! They demonstrate that alcohol is not necessary for people to have a good time and good food.

So honestly, I don’t think it would be such a horrible thing for parishes to decide that their parish events would be alcohol-free. Christians don’t need alcohol to have great fellowship with each other and to enjoy life.
 
Interesting, so those calling themselves “Evangelical” haven’t, even among themselves, sola scriptura, decided what that means.

If Evangelical doesn’t mean evangelical, does reformed mean reformed, and congregational mean congregational? What about Christian?

Protestants don’t have a firm grasp on the terms they use and assign whatever they feel like, how is anyone else supposed to “grasp” what an individual group decides it wants a term to mean for themselves alone and doesn’t apply to anyone else? This is beyond absurd.

I am not confused. The usage is confused.

You mean the “Evangelical Lutherans” are neither Evangelical nor Lutheran?? And the Sydney Anglicans are?

Just so you are aware, I was raised in a non-Catholic denomination for a few years of my childhood - I am well aware of the multiplicity and duplicity among protestant sects, aka the ‘every-man’s land of anything goes’, all a ‘guru’/‘pastor’/‘elder’/‘swami’/‘prophet’ needs is a Bible, lack of proper theological grasp or oversight, a garage or warehouse, and one or two to follow him or her.

How about this famous “evangelical” (??) pastor Rev. Billy Graham, is he evangelical, mainstream, liberal, congregational - is he out of the loop: “I do not believe that the Bible teaches teetotalism . . . Jesus drank wine. Jesus turned water into wineat a wedding feast. That wasn’t grape juice as some of them try to claim.” (3. “Carter Will Restore Confidence, Graham Says,” Miami Herald [December 26, 1976], section A, p. 18.)
When you grow up with it, it’s not confusing at all. 🙂

Evangelicals have always had a lot of communication going on, in print media in the past, through conferences and seminars and “retreats,” through television (I grew up watching the Billy Graham crusades on television), through the RADIO (Evangelicals have had radio stations for decades–Catholics are definitely coming in late on this media), and in recent decades, online. The first forum I ever got involved with, other than the figure skating forums, is an Evangelical Protestant forum.

Also, part of Evangelical Protestant culture is “fellowship” with each other. A lot of Catholics are shocked and horrified if they attend an Evangelical Protestant worship service because of all the talking that goes on before the worship service begins. That’s part of “fellowship,” and it’s considered “good” in Evangelical Protestant churches.

All this communication makes it easy for Evangelical Protestants to learn who is with them and who isn’t. When I was a young teenager, I could have gone down the list of churches in our city and told you which were Evangelical and which were not. I would have told you that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) was definitely NOT Evangelical!

The Reverent Doctor Billy Graham is the Evangelical of All Evangelicals, although interestingly, some Evangelicals find him “too theologically liberal” because he accepts Catholics as Christians!

If you want to get a handle on what it means to be “Evangelical Protestant,” study Ned Flanders on the Simpsons. He is one of the most consistent and accurate characters on that show, and he is definitely the most well-known Evangelical in the United States!
 
Believe me Cat, I know what an Evangelical is - my mother forced us to watch BG Crusades on TV whenever he was on, and she still keeps her 1985 March “Our Daily Bread” in a box somewhere (just in case she wants to reread it some day)…

The problem is, some who call themselves Evangelical are not so, while others who are don’t follow the “definition”… the term (and others) are whatever it means to the person using it, and changes over time.

Fr. Richard Simon at St. Lambert’s in Chicago says he is a “Pentecostal Catholic” and “Evangelical” and he is absolutely right! So am I!

Those denominations who use those terms to be “prohibitionist teetotlers” are misusing the term ‘Evangelical’ or ‘Christian’ to mean “my moral norms and social mores” as opposed to anything theological or based on faith. It’s abuse of Christianity to force others to conform to some social practice that this or those individuals hold dear. My mom still insists that alcohol is sinful - she doesn’t belong to an “evangelical” denomination, but may be considered one by many “evangelicals”. She would consider an SDA or Mormon’s practice of abstaining from alcohol to be more important than a Catholic who may have a drink but is doing everything else right!
 
Also, part of Evangelical Protestant culture is “fellowship” with each other. A lot of Catholics are shocked and horrified if they attend an Evangelical Protestant worship service because of all the talking that goes on before the worship service begins. That’s part of “fellowship,” and it’s considered “good” in Evangelical Protestant churches.
True. I was raised Evangelical Free. I admire the fellowship accomodations and practice of the church I hrew up in. I dont have alot of issues with this church and even helped their youth ministry after becoming Catholic. Only after learning more about our different doctrines did it become more difficult to work together. But fellowship is great. I was invited to help youth group from a friend there I knew since 3yrs old. We recently went through a series of doctrines in friendly discussion. We have both grown alot in our understandings of our relative traditions. We remain very close in faith because there is much genuineness in our faith. I invited her to my fairwell party for Brasil, and told her there would be open bar, so have a drink with me if she wanted. She politely declined and said, “I live in a fish bowl” I respectfully left it at that, and dont mind at all that she chooses not to drink. However, I think she would have liked to but felt under obligation which doesnt come from faith, but from status among her peers. Either way, its not a big issue for me.
The Reverent Doctor Billy Graham is the Evangelical of All Evangelicals, although interestingly, some Evangelicals find him “too theologically liberal” because he accepts Catholics as Christians!
👍 I respect his ministry. Though St Paul was the Evangelical of all Evangelics 😉
 
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