Protestants and Anglicans! I Need Your Opinion

[masuwerte]

#1. No, they used to be very specific. Clarifying this belief changed it.

#2. This was in a 19 Century Papal Bull, I don’t remember the name, but if you’ll google “non-Catholic spouse” you’ll find it.

#3. They used to teach that a state was within its rights to enforce religious conformity. They no longer do.

#4. Castrati were men who were castrated before puberty so they could sing better.

Anyway, I’m not convinced that their teachings never change.

 

[emeraldcoast]

One of the teaching that I find disturbing in the Catholic Church is their HIV education and prevention.

This is from an earlier post of mine on CAF

"Bishop Kevin Dowling shows the true compassion of Jesus Christ with his ministry to those suffering with HIV/AIDS. He is protecting life with giving out condoms.

Please watch Bishop Dowlings interview…

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6732051.stm

I am glad that some Catholic clergy are willing to not blindly follow the party line, but show the compassion worthy of the followers of Christ.

God Bless!"

 

[CB_Catholic]

Oh, I used to think this was an issue, but it really isn’t. All they did was clarify that people can be mystically a member of the Church via Baptism, invincible ignorance, etc…
That seems to be a good answer to me.

I’m less sure about this one. Did it use to be a part of the Magisterium, or, ex-cathedra teaching? Or was in just disciplinary? Catholics, please help answer this one.

Huh? That’s not a contradiction of an earlier teaching though.

Do you mean of castration? The Roman Church I think has always taught that it is not right, unless for health/medical reasons.

Catholics, please examine these and post an answer please.

Well, I was kind of floored when he mentioned the use of castrati as a Church teaching…In any case, no, that has never been a Church teaching, and it is prohibited, although I understand it was kind of popular about 200 years ago in some places.

As far as converting a non-Catholic spouse, I am not aware that it was ever a Magesterial teaching. However, mixed marriages were not encouraged, and it was preferable if the non-Catholic spouse did convert, but it was never forced on them.

I think you are pretty right on with the rest of your replies.

But it sounds to me that the poster is pretty anti-Catholic and does not have his facts straight (or doesn’t care to get them straight, either). Are you looking for that kind of response, or something more intelligent and reasonable?

 

[Matariel]

#1. No, they used to be very specific. Clarifying this belief changed it.

No, I clearly see that this is a straw man (probably not intentional) but they just said that it doesn’t always just include “visible” members of the Catholic Church.

#2. This was in a 19 Century Papal Bull, I don’t remember the name, but if you’ll google “non-Catholic spouse” you’ll find it.

'K. I’ll look it up.

#3. They used to teach that a state was within its rights to enforce religious conformity. They no longer do.

No, that’s not true. They just thought it was best the Catholicism remain the state religion. that doesn’t restrict people from practicing their faith in that country.

#4. Castrati were men who were castrated before puberty so they could sing better.

Ah yes, I remember that now. That was something that some people did a a certain period of time. That wasn’t a doctrinally defined thing. Thank God it isn’t done anymore. They did it in Proto-Anglican Churches too.

Anyway, I’m not convinced that their teachings never change.

That’s what I’m trying to determine here.

 

[SteveLy]

First I would suggest reading some apologetic materials and educational resources from Roman Catholics. Catholicism for Dummies, Suprised by the Truth series, Early Church fathers and Catholicism vs. Fundamentalism. These will give you a good background on the Catholic faith.

Next I would pray about where God is calling you. As you move through this journey, remember with several hundreds of millions of people in the RC church, some will not uphold the faith perfectly. Don’t let this scare you off.

Finally, speak with other Roman Catholics beginning with the Priest at the local parish and friends at school or work. Most are willing to discuss their faith if you ask with an open mind.

Finally, your family may not approve of your leaving the Anglican Church. Consider this, be sensitive to them, but do not let your family keep you from following God’s will for your life.

Peace

 

[TriuneUnity]

That’s what I’m trying to determine here.

Here is probably a more serious one, Matariel: Unam Sanctum officially taught that one must be subject to the Roman Pontiff in order to be saved; and must remain within the bosom of faithfulness to the Roman Catholic Church. There is another statement to this effect, but I can’t remember the name of it…Cantate something, but I dont have access to sources.

The modern Roman Catholic Church and the Catechism, teaches a completely contradictory doctrine.

As for your own personal journey, I really cannot speak to the superiority of Anglicanism over and above Roman Catholicism. Both teach truth alongside error. Given all of that, Anglicanism teaches less error than Rome.

If you want me to give you reasons for being Lutheran, though, I’m full of those LOL.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Matariel,

I hope that you don’t mind me asking but how old are you? Thanks!

 

[Justin_A]

I personaly dont know what you are going thrue rite now bacause I’v never been there, but my parents have. My mom was the daughter of a protostant pastor, my dad grew up protostant. And it was actualy by trying to tell why our church was rite and the catholic church was rong that we became catholic. Wat others think about your disisions of faith should nt matter. If they arent willing to stand by you in all that you do than I’d say they arent real friends. I personaly have friends that I could trust my life with regardless of any disisions I made. All that matters is your relationship weth God. A true friend ( I think ) is a friend that will help you grow spiritualy and stick with you no matter what.
The question of a perant however is somethig I cant even try to give advise on. Something that bolth protostants and catholics can agree on is the ten commandmants: " honer thy mother and father". But one thing God uses alot to evangelise is example. Maybe your example could be a lite to others. I this desision (if made) to become catholic is the rite one shown to you by God. Than he will probably use your example to help others. And if it is Gods calling for you, dont worry, it says in the bible that you will never be given to much to bear.

I am not protostant, but I hope that I can Be of help frome the other side of the spectome.

 

[masuwerte]

But it sounds to me that the poster is pretty anti-Catholic and does not have his facts straight (or doesn’t care to get them straight, either). Are you looking for that kind of response, or something more intelligent and reasonable?

Sorry if I came across as anti-Catholic or uninformed, just trying to answer Matariel’s follow up question in #17. I’m not particularly anti-Catholic, honest. But neither am I convinced that the Catholic Church’s teachings never change. Perhaps you can elaborate on that for me, or refer me to a thread in which it’s discussed.

 

[Matariel]

Matariel,

I hope that you don’t mind me asking but how old are you? Thanks!

19 1/2.

I was raised Nazarene, then, at age 10 we became independent, attending a ‘church’ led by my family’s friend. It was anti-Catholic, as was my family, and there were constant bickering amongst factions in the ‘church’ and many groups jumping ship.

My sister, when I was 13, became Amish.

Then, at age 16, I began attending a more traditional Christian community, as I continued to study ecclesiastical history and patristics.

Then, at age 17, I was confirmed as an Anglican. My sister also became Mennonite, and is now English (non-Amish) again.

My sister and I continued to study theology and the Church, and it’s true nature.

And that is where I am at. My sister is very close to me, but stubborn, and perfidious. She is unknowing on the question of which church really is* the Church*.

That’s where I’m at, as of this moment in time.

 

[YADA]

Thanks YADA!

Were you a cradle Catholic, or did you have a Protestant background?

If so, what was your convincing issue, and what was your hardest doctrine to swallow?

My mother’s family was Baptist [and very anti-catholic] … my natural father was agnostic …

My adoptive father was Church of Christ [again anti-catholic] I was baptized Church of Christ. I spent time in various Church Communities … Assemby of God, Methodist, Lutherann, Presbyterian and Episcopalian and Non-Denom [Bible and Evangelical].

Early on I truly believed that the Catholic Church was the historical Christian Church … I am a history buff … reading hstory, the writings of the early church fathers [and the faith practice and beliefs] - along with the history of biblical writings and how we come to have the Bible. All that study lead meto where I am today … it took me years to overcome the anti-catholic bias of my up-bringing for me to formally make that leap …

Hardest doctrine: by far the Eucharist, the profound mystery … and in my experience: my receiving the Eucharist in the catholic church is profoundly different than Communion in any of the above churches - no matter how seriously [Episcopalian/Lutheran] or symbolically [all of the rest] they understand Communion to be …

This about the Eucharist … if the Eucharist is not the Body & Blood of Jesus … then truly christianity is worshiping an idol … and not even an idol of some Golden Calf or Zeus … but of grain and grapes … yet reading the testimony of the early christians and the scriptures … Jesus said
“…this is my Body…” and
"… unless you eat of the Flesh of the Son of Man … " and
"… I Am the Bread that comes down from Heaven … "

So if this is not true … than all is lost … and clearly the early church’s belief regarding the Eucharist is most closely found in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches …

The entire Sacramental system was hard as it was very foriegn to most [though some held some sacramental elements] of the denominations that attended. This was denounced as ritualism … but in reality human bings are sacramental in nature … Sacraments are one of God’s greatest experiences that the Protestant Churches [for the most part] have lost.

I came to understand that the contempt for and the removal of ritual elements in worshipp becomes itself the ritual. And many protestants have replaced the “sacramental” human need that calls us to closer fellowship with our God with sacramentality in the secular … Look at the elaborate initiation rituals of Grange Membership, the Masons, ELks etc.

In fact, so many people have stopped celebrating funerals and attending church that every site where tragedy occurs be it a shooting, bombing or car accident becomes a shrine with its memorials and ‘idols’.

 

[Matariel]

My mother’s family was Baptist [and very anti-catholic] … my natural father was agnostic …

My adoptive father was Church of Christ [again anti-catholic] I was baptized Church of Christ. I spent time in various Church Communities … Assemby of God, Methodist, Lutherann, Presbyterian and Episcopalian and Non-Denom [Bible and Evangelical].

Early on I truly believed that the Catholic Church was the historical Christian Church … I am a history buff … reading hstory, the writings of the early church fathers [and the faith practice and beliefs] - along with the history of biblical writings and how we come to have the Bible. All that study lead meto where I am today … it took me years to overcome the anti-catholic bias of my up-bringing for me to formally make that leap …

Hardest doctrine: by far the Eucharist, the profound mystery … and in my experience: my receiving the Eucharist in the catholic church is profoundly different than Communion in any of the above churches - no matter how seriously [Episcopalian/Lutheran] or symbolically [all of the rest] they understand Communion to be …

This about the Eucharist … if the Eucharist is not the Body & Blood of Jesus … then truly christianity is worshiping an idol … and not even an idol of some Golden Calf or Zeus … but of grain and grapes … yet reading the testimony of the early christians and the scriptures … Jesus said
“…this is my Body…” and
"… unless you eat of the Flesh of the Son of Man … " and
"… I Am the Bread that comes down from Heaven … "

So if this is not true … than all is lost … and clearly the early church’s belief regarding the Eucharist is most closely found in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches …

The entire Sacramental system was hard as it was very foriegn to most [though some held some sacramental elements] of the denominations that attended. This was denounced as ritualism … but in reality human bings are sacramental in nature … Sacraments are one of God’s greatest experiences that the Protestant Churches [for the most part] have lost.

I came to understand that the contempt for and the removal of ritual elements in worshipp becomes itself the ritual. And many protestants have replaced the “sacramental” human need that calls us to closer fellowship with our God with sacramentality in the secular … Look at the elaborate initiation rituals of Grange Membership, the Masons, ELks etc.

In fact, so many people have stopped celebrating funerals and attending church that every site where tragedy occurs [be it a shooting, bombing or car accident becomes a shrine with its memorials and ‘idols’.

What a wonderful story… I too, became convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is the historical, Christian Church.

You last paragraph was a bit confusing for me though.

Roadside memorials were a originally a Catholic thing, now everyone pretty much uses this revere a loved one who has perished. They aren’t ‘idols’.
[/quote]

 

[sambos671]

What a wonderful story… I too, became convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is the historical, Christian Church.

You last paragraph was a bit confusing for me though.

Roadside memorials were a originally a Catholic thing, now everyone pretty much uses this revere a loved one who has perished. They aren’t ‘idols’.

I don’t know if you’ve read Clements letter to the Corinthians. It was convicting for me when considering Protestantism.

 

[YADA]

What a wonderful story… I too, became convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is the historical, Christian Church.

You last paragraph was a bit confusing for me though.

Roadside memorials were a originally a Catholic thing, now everyone pretty much uses this revere a loved one who has perished. They aren’t ‘idols’.

Well, yes in some cultures, small roadside memorials are common … not traditionally in america … the trend is growing and not amongs the traditonal catholic communities … but among the secular … The flower’s and stuffed toys, cards and candles … most of the people who place these don’t step foot in a church to pry or light a candle … [and would make fun of caholics for doing just that!] … and something as common as joining a grange has an astonishing amount of symbolism and ritual … my mother’s family was totally immersed in the Masonic Lodge - her Uncle was the highest degree [32nd?] and my grandmother was in the Eastern Star …

My point was that people will sacramentalize something … if you totally remove that element from worship [and the sacramental is associated with worship because it transends the ordinary and touches our soul] then it gets transferred to the secular … hence people will care more for whales than babies , more for trees and owls than Jesus … light candles and process at the Elks Lodge meeting [or perhaps just meet, eat and drink at the lodge restuarant].

The Church of Christ thought that having a piano accompany the service was sinful … singing was only aloud without intrumental accompianment … instead of saying that no alcohol was allowed as a matter of discipline they stated that Jesus did not drink anything with alsohol in it [that the “wine” was not true wine], etc …

No holy days … all days are just the same … Easter, Christmas and any Sunday … all the same … this counters our need to celebrate … so instead of celebrating holy days we celebrate Superbowll Sunday and birthdays, Kindergarden Graduations … etc …

 

[SORROWS]

I’m jumping in here Material but it sounds like you will make a good Catholic. I always look at the heart and the answers will follow.

Someone posted that you try Catholic RCIA and bring your questions or go to some knowledgable Catholic you know or priest. With prayer and study - the right choice will come to you.

Hope to see you one day at Mass.

 

[emeraldcoast]

19 1/2.

I was raised Nazarene, then, at age 10 we became independent, attending a ‘church’ led by my family’s friend. It was anti-Catholic, as was my family, and there were constant bickering amongst factions in the ‘church’ and many groups jumping ship.

My sister, when I was 13, became Amish.

Then, at age 16, I began attending a more traditional Christian community, as I continued to study ecclesiastical history and patristics.

Then, at age 17, I was confirmed as an Anglican. My sister also became Mennonite, and is now English (non-Amish) again.

My sister and I continued to study theology and the Church, and it’s true nature.

And that is where I am at. My sister is very close to me, but stubborn, and perfidious. She is unknowing on the question of which church really is* the Church*.

That’s where I’m at, as of this moment in time.

Hon, (I was raised in Maryland.)

Here is my advice whether you are Anglican, Catholic, Disciples of Christ, Lutheran, Church of the Annapolis Mall - slow down. I am sure that many on this board have not lived in as many houses as you have been a member of different denominations. If I was a parent and saw my child switching from church to church it would be very hard for me to be supportive of their decisions. Are you in a Bible study at your church? How active are you in your church? I am sure that many on here will agree with me that being active in your faith is very important.

I got a little giggle in your post when you wrote that you were 19 1/2, since I can’t remember when I last added a half to my age…lol

God Bless!

 

[Robbinson]

Hi

First - please don’t make such an important decision based upon responses on this Board (however well intended they may be). Take your time, study it out, pray about it - you have time (you are young in your walk and in your life ). That being said, as another Anglican also thinking about Catholicism, I’ll be happy to share my views/thoughts below:

Papal Authority

I’m actually coming around to believing the Catholic Church has this right. It turns on the combination of Apostolic succesion which I (and other Anglican’s) believe in; the passages of scripture that discuss Peter and the keys to the kingdom, and the long held tradition of the role of Rome in the early church.

Unicity and Catholicity of the Church

I do believe there is intended to be unity of the body of Christ and of the Church. I’m not convinced this would have to mean the institution of a single Church body, but the resulting 30,000+ protestant denominations coming out of the reformation suggests a problem with thinking otherwise.

Episcopal Authority

If you mean by this Apostolic/Bishop authority - I agree with this, but this view is shared by both the Catholic and the Anglican Church.

Eucharist

I’ve always believed in the actual presence in the Eucharist - that view is shared by many (but not all) Anglicans (and of course by Catholics).

Marian doctrines

I believe in this. Many (but not all) Anglicans do as well - you could be Anglican and go to a “high” Anglo/Catholic Church and find many who believe the Marian doctrines. I use the rosary (on and off - now on again). I’m not convninced, scripturally, of the immaculate conception or bodily assumption, but its not contrary to scripture and it could be inferred by scripture.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I got a little giggle in your post when you wrote that you were 19 1/2, since I can’t remember when I last added a half to my age…lol

God Bless!

I’m 33 7/12…

 

[emeraldcoast]

I got a little giggle in your post when you wrote that you were 19 1/2, since I can’t remember when I last added a half to my age…lol

God Bless!

I’m 33 7/12…

I am 40 2/12 but by reducing the fraction I am 40 1/6…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I agree with Emerald…take things SLOW!! You’ve done a lot of changing churches! I’m very impressed with how intelligent, thoughtful, and contemplative you are for 19. At your age most folks are not delving this deep into their faith and asking these questions. It’s great! Just make sure you do further study, prayer, and fully understand what it means to be a Catholic (Roman) in a family context before you convert as a single young man. When you are married the Church requires (to be an orthodox Catholic in line with the Vatican) you to use natural family planning. Are you willing to live that lifestyle? Also, have you gone to Mass MANY times alone and observed if this feels right for you? Have you spoken to not just Roman Catholic priests but Anglican priests about their take on theology?

Make sure you speak to several Anglican clergy and several Roman clergy. Take a look at their pastoral care, their biblical sensibilities, and how they shepherd their flock. TALK to real people, don’t just rely on forums such as these. Also, PM people of differing opinions in this forum of both different angles and dig deep. Take your time! Best of luck! God bless!