Protestants and Catholics, what do these two Scriptural statements mean to you?

[gurneyhalleck1]

Matthew 18:20:
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

With respect to Protestantism and Catholicism, all the arguments and exclusivity claimed by so many, triumphalism on both sides by many, what do these two scriptural statements mean to you?

 

[BryanM27]

what these statements mean to me (and this is not necessarily Church teaching, just my own opinion) is that if our motivation to good deeds comes from a desire to serve and to worship Him, then it does not matter what religious sect we claim.

 

[lax16]

Matthew 18:20:
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

With respect to Protestantism and Catholicism, all the arguments and exclusivity claimed by so many, triumphalism on both sides by many, what do these two scriptural statements mean to you?

Gurney - I think these scriptures mean that Jesus knew that many people would love Him on their way to finding the True Church.
For many of us, it is a long journey home, but Jesus knows we are trying.

It is not our place to judge others and we should not alientate those of different faiths - however, Jesus did establish One Church and does call us to be fishers of men.

Now, the Douay-Rheims commentary on Matthew 18:20 says:
“This is understood of such assemblies only, as are gathered in the name and authority of Christ; and in unity of the Church of Christ…Hence we may see what confidence we may place in an ecumenical council lawfully assembed.”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Matthew 18:20:

“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Providence, Providence, Providence. History of man proves that God is not limited just to those whom he chose. History of man proves God has used his enemies for the greater of his glory and his people. That said, God has established his kingdom on earth in his Body the Catholic Church. God’s ways are not our ways, those whom He chooses to call outside of his established Church are already on their way home, because God’s kingdom has been established for these to come and rest.

In short, our King of Kings and Lord of Lords has already established his City of God on earth as it is in heaven. God seeks those out who seek him, and protects them on their way into the City of God in his Catholic Church. God has left a place for all to come in his Catholic (universal) Church from where ever they may be in time and place. That is why the Catholic church has survived these past 2000 years and outlived peoples, nations and empires, and She will continue to be here until Jesus returns for his Bride, because Jesus promised to always be with his Catholic Church.

Peace be with you

 

[PatrickSebast]

The first one I read as a clear statement. If people gather in Christ’s name then he is present among them. For someone to think that Christ isn’t present in protestant churches I feel like they must never have had any experiences with good protestants.

The second one seems to indicate that as Catholic we should in no way work to prevent Protestants from serving and working with Christ the best they know how. It doesn’t exclude the idea that Christ would rather have such people following his established group rather than going out on their own, but that doesn’t mean that we in the Church should not respect the Christians outside of it.

In essence: The Church does not hold exclusivity to Christ, it simply has a closer proximity to him.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Patrick, what a charitable, enlightened, intelligent post with an open heart for Christ. Thanks be to God for your statements here. Blessings.

The first one I read as a clear statement. If people gather in Christ’s name then he is present among them. For someone to think that Christ isn’t present in protestant churches I feel like they must never have had any experiences with good protestants.

The second one seems to indicate that as Catholic we should in no way work to prevent Protestants from serving and working with Christ the best they know how. It doesn’t exclude the idea that Christ would rather have such people following his established group rather than going out on their own, but that doesn’t mean that we in the Church should not respect the Christians outside of it.

In essence: The Church does not hold exclusivity to Christ, it simply has a closer proximity to him.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

So when God calls people to become Anglican priests or Presbyterian elders or Orthodox priests and all throughout their lives these people serve God in their parishes, in missions, in pastoral care, and in preaching the Gospel, would you say that they’re wasting their efforts, not hearing some kind of call to Catholicism, and God is keeping them incomplete? If the goal is just being on a journey to Catholicism to be right with God, what about the millions of devout Christians that never will come to Catholicism for a myriad of reasons, what would you say about them? Your post seems to imply that Jesus calls people outside of Catholicism but with the endgame to get them all TO Catholicism when He calls them. Like I said, what about the millions who don’t become Catholics? Is it just stubbornness on their parts and they somehow all know about Catholicism but ignore it or perhaps maybe God doesn’t call them to be Catholics ever?

Providence, Providence, Providence. History of man proves that God is not limited just to those whom he chose. History of man proves God has used his enemies for the greater of his glory and his people. That said, God has established his kingdom on earth in his Body the Catholic Church. God’s ways are not our ways, those whom He chooses to call outside of his established Church are already on their way home, because God’s kingdom has been established for these to come and rest.

In short, our King of Kings and Lord of Lords has already established his City of God on earth as it is in heaven. God seeks those out who seek him, and protects them on their way into the City of God in his Catholic Church. God has left a place for all to come in his Catholic (universal) Church from where ever they may be in time and place. That is why the Catholic church has survived these past 2000 years and outlived peoples, nations and empires, and She will continue to be here until Jesus returns for his Bride, because Jesus promised to always be with his Catholic Church.

Peace be with you

 

[Wesley7]

Matthew 18:20:
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

A mystical teaching by Jesus.

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

Instruction and teaching by Jesus over a specific matter. (Conversing with the disciples)

 

[firstmode]

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

I think the verse above is interesting when paired with the verse below:

Matthew 7:22-23 (New International Version)

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Depends on who the “many” people are! Could be the folks screaming that they’re the legit ones demeaning and looking down upon those others they thought were inferior? We don’t know who the “many” are?

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

I think the verse above is interesting when paired with the verse below:

Matthew 7:22-23 (New International Version)

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Matthew 18:20:
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

The full context is the judgment of an erring brother. Christ had earlier stated that if a brother sins against you, first confront him alone (18:15), and if that doesn’t work take two or three witnesses to him (18:16), and if that doesn’t work, kick him out of the church (18:17). Christ then goes on in the following verses to talk about the legitimacy of this judgment within the church (18:18-19), finally coming here where He states that even He is present during this judgment.

Mark 9:38
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us if for us.”

I think Matthew Henry outlined it best, saying that it referred to: worshiping Christ existed outside the visible church as well as visible (for the man was performing miracles outside the “official” 12 disciples who followed Christ around); attesting that when the time comes, believers in Christ should band together, regardless of minor theological differences or beliefs. A minor excerpt:

As to the great controversy between Christ an Beelzebub, he had said, He that is not with me is against me, Matt. xii. 30. He that will not own Christ, owns Satan. But as to those that own Christ, though not in the same circumstances, that follow him, though not with us, we must reckon that though these differ from us, they are not against us, and therefore are on our part, and we must not be any hindrance to their usefulness. [Matthew Henry’s commentary]

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So when God calls people to become Anglican priests or Presbyterian elders or Orthodox priests and all throughout their lives these people serve God in their parishes, in missions, in pastoral care, and in preaching the Gospel, would you say that they’re wasting their efforts, not hearing some kind of call to Catholicism, and God is keeping them incomplete?

Your question leads away from what my commentary was addressing in regards to the scriptures posted earlier. When you drive down to specific denominations here, one first needs to understand who founded the Anglican religion (King Henry the VIII), Presbyterians (Jean Cauvin and John Knox), Orthodox priests not in communion with the pope does not necessarily cause a separation as western protestants, but a schism upon her members, not a different religion belief system. The point to this is these founders who separated from the Catholic Church are held accountable, those who follow after their new founded teachings and interpretations by “no fault of their own”, as the Catholic Church puts it, from the valid sacrament of baptism remain in the body of Christ, His Catholic Church. From this ignorance Grace still abounds. Their is a much bigger picture yet to be painted here involving God’s will with the Babylonian (confusion) of protestantism.

In the will of God, these are not wasting there time so long as they uphold the Christian virtues of saving souls and do not block the salvation of others. Gandhi is a prime example of living out the Christian virtues and did not attack the Catholic Church. If these seperated Christians from the body of Christ in His Catholic Church practice the virtues of Christianity and do not attack the Catholic Church then what the Gospels record come to light. But when they preach and teach against the body of Christ (Catholic Church), in order to fill their pews and cannot stand alone on their own new founded belief system, then these are sure to splinter and decay ultimately with time.

The separated brethren, although “may have power to do the body of Christ physical harm, they develop her power to suffer; if they oppose her intellectually, they bring out her wisdom; since she must love her enemies, her loving kindness is made manifest… these all bring into play her power to do good” (quote by St. Augustine against heretics city of God book 18 par.51)

If the goal is just being on a journey to Catholicism to be right with God, what about the millions of devout Christians that never will come to Catholicism for a myriad of reasons, what would you say about them?

What I hope to establish here; is that the road is narrow to be saved in one faith, one baptism in One Lord Jesus Christ. Yet the Kingdom of God is eternal, and the Catholic chuch does not limit God to his mercy and forgiveness, especially the will of God excercising His divine providence through humanity. The Catholic church is commissioned by God to go out and baptise every tongue and nation. If the Church is prevented from reaching these by another’s teaching, then God’s will does not cease because His Church is prevented from shepherding (teach and feed them) these because many of them are being saved by valid baptisms and or a desire of baptism which can also bring them into the kingdom of God. So in essence God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven for whom ever he predestines in his perfect will.

Peace be with you