Protestants and Contraception

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kay_Cee
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kay_Cee

Guest
My understanding is that before 1930, every Christian denomination, without exception, condemned contraception as immoral. Luther called it “far more atrocious than incest and adultery.” Calvin called it “monstrous.”

Here is a link to those and other quotes made by Protestants: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704word.asp

However, today many Protestant denominations allow contraception.

My question is twofold:
  1. What is the justification (if any) for this 180 degree reversal of teaching?
  2. If there is such justification, where can I find support for this in the Bible?
Please note what this thread is **not **about:

It is not about any doctrine other than contraception.

It is not about the Catholic Church’s stand on contraception and whether or not Catholics follow it. I’m interested only in what the official teaching is here, not whether members of any Christian faith, Catholic or Protestant, follow those teachings.

It is not about whether or not contraception is a good thing. It is about whether or not justification can be found for a reversal of teaching about contraception.

Please restrict your discussion to answering my two questions. Anything else will be considered off topic, and I may ask the moderators to remove such posts as per the forum rules. Let’s have a nice, civil discussion. I’ve often wondered about these questions, so I’d like to see plenty of response.
 
I am new to this, but does any one know anything about the momons? I am doing a reseach paper and I need more than just propoganda.
 
Kay_Cee said:
My understanding is that before 1930, every Christian denomination, without exception, condemned contraception as immoral. Luther called it “far more atrocious than incest and adultery.” Calvin called it “monstrous.”

Here is a link to those and other quotes made by Protestants: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704word.asp

However, today many Protestant denominations allow contraception.

My question is twofold:
  1. What is the justification (if any) for this 180 degree reversal of teaching?
  2. If there is such justification, where can I find support for this in the Bible?
Please note what this thread is **not **about:

It is not about any doctrine other than contraception.

It is not about the Catholic Church’s stand on contraception and whether or not Catholics follow it. I’m interested only in what the official teaching is here, not whether members of any Christian faith, Catholic or Protestant, follow those teachings.

It is not about whether or not contraception is a good thing. It is about whether or not justification can be found for a reversal of teaching about contraception.

Please restrict your discussion to answering my two questions. Anything else will be considered off topic, and I may ask the moderators to remove such posts as per the forum rules. Let’s have a nice, civil discussion. I’ve often wondered about these questions, so I’d like to see plenty of response.
Click to expand...
Hello!

I cannot say anything about your two questions except for one thing. I hope it is a reasonable response.

God said:

“…be fruitful and multiply…” Gen.

He never said, " …at your convenience…"

Nuff said?

Cheers!
 
drantolic said:
I am new to this, but does any one know anything about the momons? I am doing a reseach paper and I need more than just propoganda.
Click to expand...
You’re new here, so I’ll tell you that the proper thing to do is open your own thread about this. You’ll be likely to get many more responses if you have a thread entitled “Mormons and Contraception” or something like that.

Good luck on your research paper!!!

Everyone else, let’s please keep this thread on topic. Thank you.
 
october_ruler said:
Hello!

I cannot say anything about your two questions except for one thing. I hope it is a reasonable response.

God said:

“…be fruitful and multiply…” Gen.

He never said, " …at your convenience…"

Nuff said?

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Many protestants see that as a blessing, not a command.

ELCA position on contraception:

Marriage is the appropriate context for sexual intercourse. This continues to be the position of this church. We affirm that the goodness of sexual intercourse goes beyond its procreative purpose. Whenever sexual intercourse occurs apart from the intent to conceive, the use of contraceptives is the responsibility of the man and of the woman.
Our congregations and church schools ought to provide sex education in the context of the Christian faith. Such education, beginning in the elementary years, needs to emphasize values such as responsibility, mutuality, and abstinence from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Parents should also be prepared to teach sexual responsibility to their children in the home. It is especially important that young men and young women be taught to exercise their sexuality responsibly.
Because this church recognizes parenthood as a vocation that women and men share, we should encourage and educate males, from an early age, to assume more responsibility for raising children. Congregations should provide parenting classes and support groups for fathers and for mothers. Voluntary sterilization is also accepted
 
I heard that the Orthodox Church accepts contraception, but I don’t know for sure.

I also know that the Polish National Catholic Church does, too.
 
Kay_Cee said:
My understanding is that before 1930, every Christian denomination, without exception, condemned contraception as immoral.
Click to expand...
This is news to me.

Could you document that every denomination that has ever existed prior to 1930 had an official stance condemning all forms of contraception?
Here is a link to those and other quotes made by Protestants: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704word.asp
Click to expand...
This quotes six individuals sharing their opinions.

It quotes Dort (a conference of Calvinists) which MIGHT possibility indicate something of a denominational stance - although I’m not sure specifically what denomination that would be. Perhaps it indicates something from Calvinism in general, anyway.
My question is twofold:
  1. What is the justification (if any) for this 180 degree reversal of teaching?
Click to expand...
First, you need to document that every single denomination in history prior to 1930 had an official stance condemning all forms of contraception as immoral.

Once that is established, we would need to look to each denomination to see how, when and where it officially reversed this.
  1. If there is such justification, where can I find support for this in the Bible?
Click to expand...
I don’t know that the Bible mentions it. One way or the other. But again, to “justify” some reversal by all denominations, two things are necessary:
  1. That all denominations in history prior to 1930 were officially on record as condemning all forms of contraception as immoral.
  2. Specifically which ones officially “reversed” this since 1930. My hunch is if you do these two things, we can look at the document where the “reversal” was officially declared for the “justification” given. But we can’t do that unless we first document the “reversal” by all denominations.
I’m interested only in what the official teaching is here, not whether members of any Christian faith, Catholic or Protestant, follow those teachings.
Click to expand...
Yup.

So document the the official teaching of every denomination in history prior to 1930 and that such was officially condemning of all forums of contraception prior to 1930, and then that in each case, after 1930, their was a reverals in the official teaching to the contrary.

.
 
kamalayka9 said:
I heard that the Orthodox Church accepts contraception, but I don’t know for sure.

I also know that the Polish National Catholic Church does, too.
Click to expand...
Nope, Orthodox firmly reject it, as we always have. There are some that will support it, just like there are Catholics that will.

In Christ,
Andrew
 
Lutheranteach said:
Many protestants see that as a blessing, not a command.

ELCA position on contraception:

Marriage is the appropriate context for sexual intercourse. This continues to be the position of this church. We affirm that the goodness of sexual intercourse goes beyond its procreative purpose. Whenever sexual intercourse occurs apart from the intent to conceive, the use of contraceptives is the responsibility of the man and of the woman.
Our congregations and church schools ought to provide sex education in the context of the Christian faith. Such education, beginning in the elementary years, needs to emphasize values such as responsibility, mutuality, and abstinence from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Parents should also be prepared to teach sexual responsibility to their children in the home. It is especially important that young men and young women be taught to exercise their sexuality responsibly.
Because this church recognizes parenthood as a vocation that women and men share, we should encourage and educate males, from an early age, to assume more responsibility for raising children. Congregations should provide parenting classes and support groups for fathers and for mothers. Voluntary sterilization is also accepted
Click to expand...
Well, this tells me that Luther’s view has been rejected, but it doesn’t explain any justification for the reversal of his teaching–which is what I’m asking about. Was Luther right or wrong? If he was right, why reject his teaching? If he was wrong, what Biblical basis is there for concluding that he was wrong? I see no reference to scripture whatsoever in the above position on contraception.
 
[sarcasm]Gosh, Kay Cee! What’s wrong with you? Don’t you know that we’re in more enlightened days? Saying contraception is evil is barbaric and savage! Get with the times! Christianity has to evolve. Forget what St. Paul said about not conforming to the world. That’s outdated![/sarcasm] :rolleyes:

Protestants who embrace it cannot answer as to why there is the 180 reversal in teaching. If I were Protestant still, that would immediately cause me to pause.

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I cannot support it with data, but I suspect that WWI, greater industrialization, and an influx of immigrants changed the attitude.
 
Harpazo said:
[sarcasm]Gosh, Kay Cee! What’s wrong with you? Don’t you know that we’re in more enlightened days? Saying contraception is evil is barbaric and savage! Get with the times! Christianity has to evolve. Forget what St. Paul said about not conforming to the world. That’s outdated![/sarcasm] :rolleyes:

Protestants who embrace it cannot answer as to why there is the 180 reversal in teaching. If I were Protestant still, that would immediately cause me to pause.

In Christ,
Andrew
Click to expand...
Where did Kay Cee state that contraception was “evil and barbaric?” I can’t find that in her OP. It looks neutral to me. I think she is asking about the reversal of the approval of contraception in Protestant churches. She hasn’t said anything about it being wrong.
 
AmericanJosiah said:
This is news to me.

Could you document that every denomination that has ever existed prior to 1930 had an official stance condemning all forms of contraception?

This quotes six individuals sharing their opinions.

It quotes Dort (a conference of Calvinists) which MIGHT possibility indicate something of a denominational stance - although I’m not sure specifically what denomination that would be. Perhaps it indicates something from Calvinism in general, anyway.

First, you need to document that every single denomination in history prior to 1930 had an official stance condemning all forms of contraception as immoral.

Once that is established, we would need to look to each denomination to see how, when and where it officially reversed this.

I don’t know that the Bible mentions it. One way or the other. But again, to “justify” some reversal by all denominations, two things are necessary:
  1. That all denominations in history prior to 1930 were officially on record as condemning all forms of contraception as immoral.
  2. Specifically which ones officially “reversed” this since 1930. My hunch is if you do these two things, we can look at the document where the “reversal” was officially declared for the “justification” given. But we can’t do that unless we first document the “reversal” by all denominations.
Yup.

So document the the official teaching of every denomination in history prior to 1930 and that such was officially condemning of all forums of contraception prior to 1930, and then that in each case, after 1930, their was a reverals in the official teaching to the contrary.

.
Click to expand...
Here’s one source: illinoisrighttolife.org/ContraceptionAnalyzed2.htm

Here is another: google.com/search?q=protestants+contraception+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=G9cGS-qDPIm2sgPf86XACQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDcQ5wIwCg

But if you want to base your argument on *when *the change occurred rather than *the justification for the change, *I respectfully ask you to open a new thread. The date really doesn’t matter, and the date does not answer the questions I asked in my OP:
  1. What is the justification (if any) for this 180 degree reversal of teaching?
  2. If there is such justification, where can I find support for this in the Bible?
 
Before I was Catholic, everyone knew that “Catholics cannot use birth control” - it was just common knowledge. I honestly thought it was just a Catholic thing. Poor silly Catholics.

I can still remember the evening, reading the Catechism and other documents - before I was Catholic - when it all came to me - I cried and cried “why did they hide this from us? Why were we taught so much about Scripture and holiness and faith, yet, taught contrary to God about our reproduction”.

From every bit of research I did, it all came down to “everyone is doing it, so, we should contracept too”.
 
Caramel said:
Where did Kay Cee state that contraception was “evil and barbaric?” I can’t find that in her OP. It looks neutral to me. I think she is asking about the reversal of the approval of contraception in Protestant churches. She hasn’t said anything about it being wrong.
Click to expand...
Uh, you probably didn’t realize it, but the poster was being sarcastic. Got to watch for those little [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] notes.

Unfortunately, I need to run some errands and so will have to leave the thread for a while. Let’s everybody keep things nice, civil, and on topic please!!!
 
I’m not so sure you can find scripture supporting contraception, the Protestant argument is that scripture doesn’t condem it, because it doesn’t mention condoms, it doesn’t mention the pill, it doesn’t mention IU (or whatever it’s called), nor tubes tied, vesectamies or whatever else. There for since it’s not mentioned, it must be ok… But wait, does the bible actually have nothing to say about contraception? What about Genisis 38?

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=38&l=9&f=s#x
6 And Juda took a wife for Her his firstborn, whose name was Thamar. 7 And Her, the firstborn of Juda, was wicked in the sight of the Lord: and was slain by him. 8 Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. 9 He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. 10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.
Click to expand...
 
Kay_Cee said:
Here’s one source: illinoisrighttolife.org/ContraceptionAnalyzed2.htm

Here is another: google.com/search?q=protestants+contraception+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=G9cGS-qDPIm2sgPf86XACQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDcQ5wIwCg
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Neither of them confirm the basis of the question: that all denominations prior to 1930 officially condemned all forms of contraception as immoral.

The first only speaks of the Anglican Church - and doesn’t state that it had ANY official position prior to 1930, only that it DID after 1931. Taking an official position (even if it was - it’s entirely unclear about that) doesn’t document a “180 degree reversal” - that would require the opposite position was officially declared before that.

The second doesn’t give the official position of ANY denomination prior to 1930, much less all of them.
But if you want to base your argument on *when *the change occurred rather than *the justification for the change, *I respectfully ask you to open a new thread. The date really doesn’t matter, and the date does not answer the questions I asked in my OP:
  1. What is the justification (if any) for this 180 degree reversal of teaching?
  2. If there is such justification, where can I find support for this in the Bible?
Click to expand...
Lost me…

Your entire question is based on the premise that all denominations in history prior to 1930 were officially (you stressed taht word - in embolden font) condemned all forms of contraception as “immoral.” And that they “reversed” this “180 degrees” after 1930. Thus, your premise must be supported. Namely, that “all denominations prior to 1930” were officially condemning of all forms of contraception as immoral. You need to document that first. Then your premise is that they “reversed” that official position, “180 degrees” all since 1930. You didn’t substantiate the premise of the question, thus the question is moot. You haven’t established (yet - I’m sure its coming) that all denominations in history before 1930 had an official declaration condemning all forms of contraception as immoral. And you haven’t (yet) established that they all made an official 180 degree reversal of that. Establish the premise, the basis of the question - THEN we can discuss it (if it proves correct).

Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah
.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top