Protestants and Mortal Sin.

[Nelka]

Two questions.

Firstly, other than the commandments and a few other sins mentioned in the New Testament is it possible for a Protestant to commit a mortal sin as you need full knowledge to commit them and therefore surely they cannot?

Secondly, when a Protestant is in mortal sin how do they get out of it without confession, is it possible for them just to repent and ask God for his forgiveness with a contrite heart?

Thanks.

 

[1ke]

Firstly, other than the commandments and a few other sins mentioned in the New Testament is it possible for a Protestant to commit a mortal sin as you need full knowledge to commit them and therefore surely they cannot?

What do you believe “full knowledge” to be? The commandments and the teachings of the bible are pretty chock-full of knowledge. We also know, from the bible, that God places this natural knowledge in our hearts.

What sins are you referring to that they would not know are wrong?

Secondly, when a Protestant is in mortal sin how do they get out of it without confession, is it possible for them just to repent and ask God for his forgiveness with a contrite heart?

Perfect contrition, if they have it. If they have imperfect contrition, then we leave it to God’s mercy and God’s justice that he operates outside of sacramental confession in some way. Remember, the ordinary means of sanctifying grace is the sacraments, but it is not the only means. God can give it in extraordinary ways.

 

[dronald]

While I don’t believe God has a sinometer where some sins are suddenly mortal; and therefore a person cannot approach God with sorrow in one’s heart and be forgiven, I will give you this passage that may help your case:

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

 

[JoshuaNY]

From a Lutheran perspective and from what I understand, Lutherans do not differentiate between the 2. We do not categorize our sin, every sin is against God’s Law.

My pastor once said “Small sins become great when they are regarded as small”. He was quoting something, but I do not remember what. My Google search did not bring up anything.

We are forgiven of sins when we are truly sorry for them and confess them to God. There is a general Absolution during Service. The penitent says soemthing along the lines of:

“All-Powerful God, merciful Father, I, a poor, pitiful sinner, confess to You all my sins and unrighteousness. By them I have continually offended You and fairly deserved Your punishment, both now and eternally. But from my heart I am sorry for them, and I sincerely repent of them, and I pray You, in Your limitless mercy for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, be gracious and merciful to me, a poor, sinful being.”

The Pastor then says:
“Upon this your confession, I, as a called and
ordained servant of the Word,announce the grace of God to all
of you,and in the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus
Christ I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Christ has given His Church the Authority:

““Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive
anyone his sins,they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them,
they are not forgiven”(John 20:22-23).”

So it is the Word of God that forgives our sins through the Pastor. Just as you believe it is the Word of God, spoken through your Priest.

Now, Catholics may not believe that our sins are forgiven at this point, but we do.

My knowledge is not as in depth as some, so I am sure other Lutherans will speak up as well. And correct any errors I may have. But this is my understanding.

 

[JRKH]

While I don’t believe God has a sinometer where some sins are suddenly mortal; and therefore a person cannot approach God with sorrow in one’s heart and be forgiven,

This is not expressed accurately.
Think about it for a bit. One who is in mortal sin and remains there is not sorry. They knew full well what they were doing and did it anyway.
If the person repents and turns back to God in sorrow - then they most certainly can approach God and be forgiven.
It’s not that one cannot - rather it is that they choose not to…

I will give you this passage that may help your case:

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

An excellent passage on the subject.

 

[spedteacherita]

Two questions.

Firstly, other than the commandments and a few other sins mentioned in the New Testament is it possible for a Protestant to commit a mortal sin as you need full knowledge to commit them and therefore surely they cannot?

Secondly, when a Protestant is in mortal sin how do they get out of it without confession, is it possible for them just to repent and ask God for his forgiveness with a contrite heart?

Thanks.

I have attached a document put together by Dr. Barry, president of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) that discusses how we view sin and confession.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

While I don’t believe God has a sinometer where some sins are suddenly mortal; and therefore a person cannot approach God with sorrow in one’s heart and be forgiven, I will give you this passage that may help your case:

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

This is a scarry verse. I have heard some if it (in Spider-Man) but the whole thing is frightening. It brings to mind being chased with whips…

 

[spedteacherita]

This is a scarry verse. I have heard some if it (in Spider-Man) but the whole thing is frightening. It brings to mind being chased with whips…

I can appreciate your point here. My mom was pretty deadly with just a wooden spoon in her hand as you walked by having just said or done something to deserve a swat!

I am not perfect to say the least but I have this hope:

1 John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.…

This and other verses similar are where I draw comfort - doesn’t give me license to go out and sin all I want - but it does give me comfort when I draw near and confess my sinfulness to my Lord.

 

[rcwitness]

More relevant passages…

James 4

17 Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, commits sin.

1 John 5

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God[a] will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Firstly, other than the commandments and a few other sins mentioned in the New Testament is it possible for a Protestant to commit a mortal sin as you need full knowledge to commit them and therefore surely they cannot?

Of Course

Secondly, when a Protestant is in mortal sin how do they get out of it without confession, is it possible for them just to repent and ask God for his forgiveness with a contrite heart?

I`ll let God be God and judge that. But I believe Dronalds passage about the servants and masters deserving beatings has some relevance. This also is a strong reference to Purgatory.

Another interesting story…

Acts 8

9 But there was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city… 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samar′ia had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; 16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me also this power, that any one on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money![a] 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” 24 And Simon answered, “Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.”

This story has a believer who is Baptized and continues with the Apostle, then reveals he is not converting his heart and has mortal sin. Peter rebukes him strongly and charges him to pray to God for forgiveness. He then, humbly asked for Peter`s petition as well.

NOTE… In Sacramental Confession, we pray to God and we confess before His Church.

 

[Zachary]

1 John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.…

This and other verses similar are where I draw comfort - doesn’t give me license to go out and sin all I want - but it does give me comfort when I draw near and confess my sinfulness to my Lord.

Doesn’t this just scream “once saved, always saved!!” ??

 

[JRKH]

I can appreciate your point here. My mom was pretty deadly with just a wooden spoon in her hand as you walked by having just said or done something to deserve a swat!

I am not perfect to say the least but I have this hope:

1 John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.…

This and other verses similar are where I draw comfort - doesn’t give me license to go out and sin all I want - but it does give me comfort when I draw near and confess my sinfulness to my Lord.

Doesn’t this just scream “once saved, always saved!!” ??

Some might say yes - but - -
If we do not keep his commandments - then we do not know him…and if we do not know him, is he still our advocate with the Father?

This same verse can also be used to support universal salvation since it says that he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world - not just those who believe in him.

This is the danger of taking things in isolation.

Peace
James

 

[SteveVH]

From a Lutheran perspective and from what I understand, Lutherans do not differentiate between the 2. We do not categorize our sin, every sin is against God’s Law.

My pastor once said “Small sins become great when they are regarded as small”. He was quoting something, but I do not remember what. My Google search did not bring up anything.

We are forgiven of sins when we are truly sorry for them and confess them to God. There is a general Absolution during Service. The penitent says soemthing along the lines of:

“All-Powerful God, merciful Father, I, a poor, pitiful sinner, confess to You all my sins and unrighteousness. By them I have continually offended You and fairly deserved Your punishment, both now and eternally. But from my heart I am sorry for them, and I sincerely repent of them, and I pray You, in Your limitless mercy for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, be gracious and merciful to me, a poor, sinful being.”

The Pastor then says:
“Upon this your confession, I, as a called and
ordained servant of the Word,announce the grace of God to all
of you,and in the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus
Christ I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

So you actually never confess your sins?

Catholics acknowledge their sinfulness every Sunday by reciting the Confiteor.

“I confess to almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have greatly sinned, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and in what I have failed to do, and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

There is a difference between acknowledging that we are sinners and actually confessing our sins. God is faithful to forgive our sins if we “confess” them.

 

[Stilldreamn]

So you actually never confess your sins?

We do. From the Lutheran Service Book Divine Service:

“Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned again You in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve Your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of Your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we may delight in Your will and walk in Your ways to the glory of Your holy name. Amen.”

Prior to this confession, we have a period of silence to confess particular sins as well.

 

[rcwitness]

1 John 4:20

20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot[a] love God whom he has not seen.

This has the essence of Confession through the Sacrament within it, in my opinion.

Serious sins affect the Body of Christ that we are members of. Can we confess to God without confessing to our brothers also?

 

[SteveVH]

Prior to this confession, we have a period of silence to confess particular sins as well.

To who? What I mean is, do you ever tell your pastor that “I got angry with my wife; I goofed off at work for about an hour and therefore stole from my employer; I had lustful thoughts about a woman I saw last week; I spent money on myself that was needed for my family…”?

I’m just trying to understand how far your faith tradition has departed (or not) from the practices of the Catholic Church when it comes to Reconciliation.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[Stilldreamn]

To who? What I mean is, do you ever tell your pastor that “I got angry with my wife; I goofed off at work for about an hour and therefore stole from my employer; I had lustful thoughts about a woman I saw last week; I spent money on myself that was needed for my family…”?

I’m just trying to understand how far your faith tradition has departed (or not) from the practices of the Catholic Church when it comes to Reconciliation.

Thanks.

Steve

Our pastor does private confession and absolution. All of the confirmands are required to go to confession prior to first communion, but after that, it is on the conscience of the member. Some do, many do not go to private confession.

 

[SteveVH]

Our pastor does private confession and absolution. All of the confirmands are required to go to confession prior to first communion, but after that, it is on the conscience of the member. Some do, many do not go to private confession.

Okay, thanks. Unfortunately, even though confession once a year is required and monthly confession is recommended, many Catholics do not go either.

 

[pablope]

Our pastor does private confession and absolution. All of the confirmands are required to go to confession prior to first communion, but after that, it is on the conscience of the member. Some do, many do not go to private confession.

Since it is optional…so it is not considered a sacrament by LCMS?

 

[Stilldreamn]

Since it is optional…so it is not considered a sacrament by LCMS?

Absolution is usually considered as part of the sacrament of Baptism. It’s an odd sort of place to Catholic ears I suppose, but it restores your Baptismal state so that is the way it is looked at.

 

[spedteacherita]

Doesn’t this just scream “once saved, always saved!!” ??

I don’t think so. Did you read the last phrase in the verse?

1 John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him,** if we keep His commandments.…
**

We still need to walk with Him in righteousness keeping our eyes focused on the end goal which is eternal life. We can’t take our salvation for granted - that’s what the enemy wants…