C
cathopologist
Guest
Exactly. Even Islam is not spared of all the turmoil and divisions that continues to grow despite Mohammad’s prediction of ending sectarian growth at a number of 73.
Protestants and Muslims - Understanding Scriptural Authority
- Status
S
Steadfast
Guest
Okay, well, you have my answer.
B
BrianH
Guest
Do you have any examples of support for “divine art” from any Ante-Nicene father. What about what Eusebius wrote? I assume you have read him?
C
cathopologist
Guest
The Ante-Nicene Fathers would most certainly not have objected to any divine art because if they did, they wouldn’t have included the Gospel of St Luke and Acts of the Apostles when the Church compiled the books of the NT.
As i think you already know, St Luke has been attributed as also being one of the first saints to paint images of the BVM according to Christian tradition.
I have read some of Eusebius’ writings but i would appreciate it if you can quote me a passage where he explicitly condemns sacred/divine art.
C
cathopologist
Guest
Umm, that was hardly an answer but if it amuses you to think so…
N
notsmart
Guest
I don’t think you will find a single non catholic christian that won’t be offended by being compared to a non trinitarian religion that came from a man claiming to have an angel tell thim things.
Its a bit offensive really.
Its a bit offensive really.
L
LutheranDK
Guest
Downright wrong. Period.
1: “Protestants” are Christians, and hold to the Word of God, while Muslims believe in a book that is not from God.
2: Muslims do NOT say that “no authority should interpret holy texts” - ever hear of the hadiths?
(and I do not know of any commited “protestant” Christian who would claim something like that either).
3: You show your ignorance by claiming that “protestants” believe in double predestination as a whole, which is not true. Yes, some sects within “protestantism” do, but that is not a fulfilling image of the entirety, just as it’s wrong to say that RC priests are paedophiles in general, or that RCs don’t believe in the office of the pacacy because of the sedevacantists…
C
cathopologist
Guest
This would be true to a certain extent, however that is really not my intention. I do have my reasons for asking as stated in the OP. I find the approach both parties have on sola scriptura and sola fide very similar and that caught my interest. And as mentioned by me, this could work either way. For or against the Protestant.
N
notsmart
Guest
The better but not much less offensive comparison would be with Jws or SDa’s because they say they are christian and use the bible. Even then, it would be very icky to do so because they are nontrinitarian and cults.
Its just making me feel icky reading this.
C
cathopologist
Guest
Muslims do believe their holy text is from God. How can you even deny this? You are being biased in your arguement and it shows.
Who interprets the Hadiths? The Hadiths are not interpreters but are a compendium to the Qu’ran. Most Protestant churches also have catechisms/compendiums.
I never said all Protestants believe in double predestination. Read again. I also was not comparing Protestants and Muslims through a worldly, judgmental lens. I am more interested in the theological approach.
C
cathopologist
Guest
Then don’t read it if it makes you feel ‘icky’. Gaining knowledge through another’s perspective is not necessarily a bad thing. Its not like i made up my mind about 'dem Protestants and conclude all are eternally damned.
N
notsmart
Guest
You will only “gain” knowledge from catholics that will say, yeah- wow I see that too!Then don’t read it if it makes you feel ‘icky’. Gaining knowledge through another’s perspective is not necessarily a bad thing. Its not like i made up my mind about 'dem Protestants and conclude all are eternally damned.
Would you post on a thread that compared your beliefs to paganism? Sure, to defend yourself from unfair attack.
There are rituals in both. No connection though.
You are not seeing how this is the very same thing?
You sound just like a fundamentalist evangelical now.
C
cathopologist
Guest
No, a Fundamentalist Evangelical would come with a pre-determined mind and would be alot more judgmental without even attempting to have a civil discussion. I’ve been there and done that with them several times. Come on, cut me some slack and give me the benefit of the doubt.You will only “gain” knowledge from catholics that will say, yeah- wow I see that too!
Would you post on a thread that compared your beliefs to paganism? Sure, to defend yourself from unfair attack.
There are rituals in both. No connection though.
You are not seeing how this is the very same thing?
You sound just like a fundamentalist evangelical now.
BrianH and i are actually having a civil discussion. If you noticed, neither one of us tried to outdo the other in dirty ways. This is not a ‘Win or Lose’ discussion.
C
Catherine_S
Guest
No name calling either, and this is very refreshingNo, a Fundamentalist Evangelical would come with a pre-determined mind and would be alot more judgmental without even attempting to have a civil discussion. I’ve been there and done that with them several times. Come on, cut me some slack and give me the benefit of the doubt.
BrianH and i are actually having a civil discussion. If you noticed, neither one of us tried to outdo the other in dirty ways. This is not a ‘Win or Lose’ discussion.
!!
N
notsmart
Guest
Okay, I am sorry if I did not understand you cathopologist.
I am guessing the muslim could say they also have hadiths and sunnas, but the protestant does not.
I am guessing the muslim could say they also have hadiths and sunnas, but the protestant does not.
S
swariffin
Guest
The Protestants do have some critical logic involved in the tafseer of the bible.
N
notsmart
Guest
What is Tafseer?
B
BrianH
Guest
I thought about including Justyn Martyr but this is what I was talking about. It is not Eusebius at all. I NEVER would have found it:blush:
I would like to publically thank Chris for the link and lurking on a thread that I was bombing to remember something. Now of course since no one knows you by that name…I am not REALLY thanking you
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.LI.html
Section 9 (part 9) and then we could go backwards from there to the Ante-Nicene writings. This is from 392 I believe it says.
C
cathopologist
Guest
St Justin Martyr was probably referring to anthropomorphist influence in the image. Christian icons are seen as a gateway to the realm of God or rather, as the ‘Bible for the illiterate’ and it was important (and its still important today) icons projected the correct image and the Word. As you also probably know, discourses between Church Fathers on anachronistic terms were common. That didn’t mean they were outside the teachings of the Magisterium. Anyone is free to agree to disagree until an authoritative council makes a final, closed decision. The passage also does not prove St Justin Martyr was against sacred art indefinitely as Catholic/Orthodox historical records prove iconoclasm was condemned during Seventh Ecumenical Council. Christian iconography and images (divine/sacred art) have been around since the dawn of Christianity. It was universally accepted until much later on, when iconoclasts were inspired and influenced by Islam’s view on the veneration of sacred images. A belief commonly shared by Protestants.I thought about including Justyn Martyr but this is what I was talking about. It is not Eusebius at all. I NEVER would have found it:blush:
I would like to publically thank Chris for the link and lurking on a thread that I was bombing to remember something. Now of course since no one knows you by that name…I am not REALLY thanking you
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.LI.html
Section 9 (part 9) and then we could go backwards from there to the Ante-Nicene writings. This is from 392 I believe it says.
C
cathopologist
Guest
No apologies needed.
A Hadith is a compendium actually and Protestants also have compendiums/cathechisms of their respective churches.- Status