You’re still harping on this, after I’ve demonstrated that other Catholics even had liberty to make value judgements concerning the canon? And after I’ve noted that Luther later retracted his in favor of the popular view? And that Luther’s opinions were well before Trent!
You said you didn’t know. So no this doesn’t answer my question.
And you know? You know something the Catholic Church does not claim to know? Please enlighten us.
I think anyone who knows Church history, knows that Florence was NOT a local council, and that Florence was considered binding on all the Western Church when it closed.
:tsktsk: You are mistaken. If you dig a little deeper you will find that Trent held several votes on different aspects of the biblical canon. The actual vote on the canon was unanimous. The vote that you refer to was whether to attach an anathema to it.
I do get what you mean. But you must admit that Luther, and for that matter Calvin, knew where the Church stood on the canon, no matter that other learned scholars may have held the same view. In the words of the author from the site linked to above:
I would like to address a little further something you said earlier:
Is not sola scriptura an attempt to narrow Christian freedom? Is this Lutheran view from the site you linked to earlier, not in itself an attempt to bind, or narrow Scripture, by classifying what the different books of Scripture can be used for?
What is the fear of establishing dogma from a book that the Church views as Scripture?
You raise another point. The Canon was not as simple as selecting the books. There were many passages that were in certain manuscripts while not in others. There had to be decisions about all the parts of each book also. Trent was all about closing these things for good. But the Canon was “fixed” long ago.
Yes or no?
The point remains.
I already said yes…twice, but I’ll tell you what, I won’t push the issue. Forget it
There is a difference between an individual church and a ‘denomination’. The term “denomination” generally referred to Protestant churches who are “denominating” themselves to other Protestant churches. “Independent” churches are a denominated by a “Bible college” or a “camp”, no matter what they claim in their advertising. One church cannot logically count as a ‘denomination’.
Ok, 33,000 churches that are not Catholic
Oh, goody.
Eric,Now, now GKC. You don’t want to break your 12,000+ posts without one infraction record.
Nope.Now, now GKC. You don’t want to break your 12,000+ posts without one infraction record.
Jon,
Far more than that my friend.
The Catholic Church is NOT a denomination. It is THE CHURCH that Jesus founded. Christ didn’t say to Peter, “Upon this rock I will build my denomination” , did he?
Luther, like others, held that the DC books were not of the same level of the other books, this is true. Keep in mind that what protestant communions do is up to them. Luther held no particular authority or power over them. Curiously, the Lutherans never did declare a 66 book canon, and although American Lutherans sadly came under Reformed influence to one degree or another, Lutheranism still worthy of reading and teaching, which is the definition of canon that Cajetan referred to.
You’ll have to ask them why. I’ve said this before I became Anglican, that American Lutherans need to do a better job of using Bibles that have them, and the Prayer of Manasseh.
Indeed, the Catholic Church in communion with the Pope has been consistent in its view of the canon, but Luther cannot be held accountable in a way different than others of his era and prior.
Not many points, particular on the sacraments, ISTM. But again, every communion has its ability to choose: Holy Orthodoxy has various canons bigger than the west, and many Anglicans use the 73 book canon.
The denominations discussion moved to this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1016015