Protestants and The Crucifix

[rr1213]

You’re right about this. But they don’t really want it to appear that it is the only reason, so they rationalize why they are uncomfortable with the Catholic spirituality behind the Crucifix. Same thing with the Sign of the Cross.

It’s that whole “tangled web” thing they got goin’ on.

…and how do you reconcile Episcopalians and Lutherans who make the sign of the cross? I see it all the time in these Churches.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Jim1130 & Jeanette L.,
You can read above numerous posts by Protestants themselves who have stated what they believe regarding the use of a crucifix and/or an empty cross as symbols of Christ’s passion, death and resurrection for all of our sins. I would suggest that you review those posts carefully to grasp a more nuanced and accurate understanding of Protestant beliefs. Contrary to what you may think, we are not consumed with the Catholic experience and the need to “rationalize” or “disassociate” ourselves from the Catholic Church. Do you truly think that Protestants do not believe in the Passion of our Lord? The differences you see are differences in emphasis, the Catholic culture tends to emphasize one thing while the Protestant the other, but both faiths accept and embrace all of these elements. It is not a sign of “Catholic superiority” that Catholics generally use a crucifix and Protestants generally use an empty cross. Or vice-versa for that matter.
RR1213

Maybe we all are guilty here of lumping too many into one pot. You as a Protestant, and we as Catholics, on what Protestants think, practice and teach.

I guess we each can only draw from our experiences, both personally and from interaction. I know how I was taught personally throughout my life from various Fundamentalist/Evangelical/Pentecostal traditions. This in no way covers the entire forum of Protestant thought. I only know what I have experienced, and what I wrote above remains true.

After having read this forum this morning, I had a conversation with a family member which led to this very subject, and it was absolutely stated again as above, that Catholics are obsessed with suffering and death, and Evangelicals live a more joyful Christianity focusing on the love of God and the resurrection life. I can’t help it that this is how many are being taught and how they continue to choose to see things even when they are told differently about what Catholics really believe and practice. And this is not, as I said above, how all Protestants think and behave and teach, but there are a lot of them out there, and they are by far the more vocal.

I’m sorry you have possibly taken offense to this, but your offense then should be towards those who hold these views, not those of us who have to continually defend ourselves against them.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Jim1130 & Jeanette L.,
You can read above numerous posts by Protestants themselves who have stated what they believe regarding the use of a crucifix and/or an empty cross as symbols of Christ’s passion, death and resurrection for all of our sins. I would suggest that you review those posts carefully to grasp a more nuanced and accurate understanding of Protestant beliefs. Contrary to what you may think, we are not consumed with the Catholic experience and the need to “rationalize” or “disassociate” ourselves from the Catholic Church. Do you truly think that Protestants do not believe in the Passion of our Lord? The differences you see are differences in emphasis, the Catholic culture tends to emphasize one thing while the Protestant the other, but both faiths accept and embrace all of these elements. It is not a sign of “Catholic superiority” that Catholics generally use a crucifix and Protestants generally use an empty cross. Or vice-versa for that matter.
RR1213

Maybe we all are guilty here of lumping too many into one pot. You as a Protestant, and we as Catholics, on what Protestants think, practice and teach.

I guess we each can only draw from our experiences, both personally and from interaction. I know how I was taught personally throughout my life from various Fundamentalist/Evangelical/Pentecostal traditions. This in no way covers the entire forum of Protestant thought. I only know what I have experienced, and what I wrote above remains true.

After having read this forum this morning, I had a conversation with a family member which led to this very subject, and it was absolutely stated again as above, that Catholics are obsessed with suffering and death, and Evangelicals live a more joyful Christianity focusing on the love of God and the resurrection life. I can’t help it that this is how many are being taught and how they continue to choose to see things even when they are told differently about what Catholics really believe and practice. And this is not, as I said above, how all Protestants think and behave and teach, but there are a lot of them out there, and they are by far the more vocal.

I’m sorry you have possibly taken offense to this, but your offense then should be towards those who hold these views, not those of us who have to continually defend ourselves against them.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Balderdash. Violence to words is an insult to Christ the incarnate Word.

This implies that Jesus is not truly God and Man. If He is, then obviously this command doesn’t apply to images of Him. Or are you denying that the purpose of the command was to forbid the imaging of the invisible God?

Stefany is indeed over the top, but it’s hard to blame her when you call an image of our Redeemer an idol.

It all boils down to whether you really believe in the Incarnation or not. If you apply the OT against crucifixes, you should logically apply it against Incarnation and Trinity as well. That’s what the Jews do. Why don’t you agree with them? What nuance can you make to “there is one God” and “no one has seen God” that doesn’t also apply to “don’t make images”?

Edwin

Thank you for the post. It’s very good.

I would also like to ask a question to rbica. If the main concern about the crucifix is that it could be an idol, why keep the cross at all? At the Protestant Church I attended before I became Catholic, we did not have a cross at all. The minister disapproved of crosses because he felt that they broke the second commandment. So, why keep the cross at all?

 

[hosemonkey]

I personally believe, from my expereinces, that the reason most Protestants do not accept the Crucifix is because it is Catholic. Most Protestants can rationalize until the sun rises and sets, but the reality is that the Crucifix is Catholic and most Protestants wish to disassociate with and distance themselves from anything Catholic.

I have to concur with Jim, protestants are jumpy about anything that smacks of “Catholic.” When I announced to my Baptist brother-in-law that I was converting to Catholicism, the first thing out of his mouth was "you know what the Bible says about “idol worship.” He had no idea what riches I gained by that conversion, and how sterile his protestantism is. The crucifix forces me to regard my unworthiness of the love that He bears for me and my gratefullness for His sacrifice. Beside, sometimes I think that protestants secretly envy us Catholics.

 

[dessert]

Thank you for the post. It’s very good.

I would also like to ask a question to rbica. If the main concern about the crucifix is that it could be an idol, why keep the cross at all? At the Protestant Church I attended before I became Catholic, we did not have a cross at all. The minister disapproved of crosses because he felt that they broke the second commandment. So, why keep the cross at all?

I had attended at one time also before catholic that also taught the same thing. It was a christian scientist church. It was mostly women run by women readings by women. Did not mention Jesus.
return from the desert

 

[psr13]

The reason given for not having the crucifix is that Protestants focus on the resurrection. We do not forget what He went through when He died. To us His resurrection is more important because it really shows that He is God.

 

[MariaG]

The reason given for not having the crucifix is that Protestants focus on the resurrection. We do not forget what He went through when He died. To us His resurrection is more important because it really shows that He is God.

The Crucifix encompasses His Resurecction. It is all inclusive.

Respectfully, your statement “To us His resurrection is more important” implies that Catholic Christians belittle or focus more on His death and place less importance on the resurrection.

Words spoken often in Catholic liturgy speak of His Life, Death and Resurrection.

An empty cross is not more reflective of Christ’s resurrection than a crucifix.

 

[psr13]

Well, most Protestants do think that Catholics care more about His death than resurrection. They often use the crucifix as an example of that. When we see Him on the cross, we really think death. When we see an empty cross we think resurrection.

 

[MariaG]

Well, most Protestants do think that Catholics care more about His death than resurrection. They often use the crucifix as an example of that. When we see Him on the cross, we really think death. When we see an empty cross we think resurrection.

Well you are quite simply wrong.

To believe that your cross, empty of anything is more representative of His resurrection is than a crucifix is ignorant as well as insulting.

I PERSONALLY find the crucifix brings to mind all of Christ, His life, death and resurrection but would never claim to believe that an empty cross could not mean as much to other Christians.

 

[psr13]

I must say that I was saying we because I am still a Protestant since I haven’t converted to Catholicism, but will do that in the future. I have even ordered my first crucifix.

 

[MariaG]

I must say that I was saying we because I am still a Protestant since I haven’t converted to Catholicism, but will do that in the future. I have even ordered my first crucifix.

Glad to hear that. I looked at your profile and thought the use of “we” reflected your current belief. Which I believe you will agree is a rather narrow minded and ethnocentric view.

Symbols are just that, symbolic. Images reflect beliefs that we impose upon them. I find it divisive when ethnocentric people claim that their symbol means more than the symbols that others have used to reflect their beliefs in the resurrection.

As I said before though, I personally find the crucifix a much better representation of Christ’s resurrection, but would never assume that just because I do, that an empty cross does not represent that just a poignantly to another.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[dessert]

Well, most Protestants do think that Catholics care more about His death than resurrection. They often use the crucifix as an example of that. When we see Him on the cross, we really think death. When we see an empty cross we think resurrection.

I can’t let this one go aside. When I see the crucifix I see the suffering my Jesus went through for my sin. I see the love and compassion in His eyes. I see the tears falling with the mercy of his heart. I feel His love as a friend giving His life for me. He tells us he has to do this so the comforter can come. He promised He would rise again in three days, the ressurection. Our God lives!
When I see an empty cross, I see an empty cross.
return from the desert
JOHN 11; 25
JESUS SAID TO HER " IAM THE RESSURECTION AND THE LIFE; HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME; THOUGH HE DIE,YET SHALL HE LIVE, AND WOEVER LIVES AND BELEVES IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS" RSV CE

 

[a_cermak]

…and how do you reconcile Episcopalians and Lutherans who make the sign of the cross? I see it all the time in these Churches.

Exactly. In my Church we’ve got a big crucifix in the front of the Church and a smaller one that is carried in when the priest processes in and carried out when the priest processes out. We’ve also got a small shrine to Our Lady of Walsingham and a beautiful Icon of Jesus (not sure which one I’m not up on Iconography). We make the sign of the cross during the liturgy. We say the Nicene Creed including the Communion of Saints bit. The care with which the consecrated host and wine (This is my body… This is my blood…) are treated would certainly seem to indicate a belief in the Real Presence (to say nothing of our monthly Adoration and the tabernacle lamp). We also have Confession by appointment (no anonymous Confession here). On the other hand I belong to a fairly Anglo-Catholic parish and other Episcopalian parishes are far less Catholic and more Reformed.

I think one of the issues here is how the word Protestant is used. It’s like a superset with many, many subsets not all of whom believe the same things or even use the same terminology for that which they do believe in common.

 

[gcnuss]

a_cermak,

You wrote:

I think one of the issues here is how the word Protestant is used. It’s like a superset with many, many subsets not all of whom believe the same things or even use the same terminology for that which they do believe in common.

I think you have an excellent point. I find it difficult to relate to many with whom I am associated under the umbrella of “Protestant.” I find myself more at home theologically with our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters than with fundamentalist Protestants, although I don’t ignore the differences between us…

I am a Lutheran pastor and while our congregation does not have a crucifix in the sanctuary, I have one in my study where it is easily viewed from my desk so that I can be reminded of Christ’s Passion. Also, I sometimes wear a crucifix – most often during Lent and Holy Week.

I think it is important to remember that the cross, with or without the corpus, is a Christian symbol solely because our Lord died on a cross. We would likely not have crosses in either form had Jesus been beheaded or hanged or whatever. That said, the crucifix is a powerful reminder of what he suffered on our behalf and his suffering is something we need to be reminded of often.

Peace,
Pastor Gary

 

[dessert]

I am also going to get a crucifix and a cross medium size for our home soon so my protestant husband will except my crucifix and I will except his cross. We also have a picture of the last supper and a poster of the names and minsteries of Jesus Christ hard to describe what it looks like. Next, I guess I will have to put the pic of the pope in my computer room though I am a cradle RCC and a revert and when I came back to my origanal RCC the new priest of two years had got all the old pics of all the old priests that had been at our church for 100 years the church is the oldest, out of the basement. I’m still investigating into why they were put away down there. This priests says he is not afraid of who gets mad at him.
LUKE 19;41
AS JESUS DREW NEAR AND SAW THE CITY, HE WEPT OVER IT.
" Come, Holy Spirit, andd reveal to me the goodness, greatness, and powerr of the Lord! help me to lift my heart and mind to Jesus in praise today. May I forget what lies behnd me, and fix my eyes only on you." Word among us publ.

return from the desert

 

[inJESUS]

This thread is really strange. I have a crucifix and a cross. So what? one can look at the crucifix and remember what Christ endured, and one can look at an empty cross to remember the risen crucified Jesus. One can even look at a crucifix and remember the risen Christ or look at a cross and remember the crucified Jesus!

sometimes i really believe that satan lies in details.

 

[AlegreFe]

I have a crucifix and a cross.

I only have Crucifixes in my house, no crosses. I do have some pictures of crosses in my picture folder in my computer.

one can look at the crucifix and remember what Christ endured, and one can look at an empty cross to remember the risen crucified Jesus. One can even look at a crucifix and remember the risen Christ or look at a cross and remember the crucified Jesus!

One can carry a small cross, (small enough to hold in your hand) if one is sick with cancer or if you suffer from chronic headaches or if you seem to be going through too much. You can remember, with that small cross in your hand, that you are to carry your own cross too.

Even Protestants can carry a small cross if they are sick. I’m sure there would be no objection to that. right? or no?

I like having the Rosary myself. :yup: But if ever that time came, I would also have a cross right along side my Rosary. I wouldn’t mind getting a small cross right now just for everyday hassles and headaches (not literal headaches lol). I used to get headaches all the time, but not anymore. Thank you God!

You can pray for spiritual healing as you are going through your cancer or whatever other illness you might have while holding that small cross in your hand. It is good to also know and remember that your sufferings can be very purifying. God wants to bring you to perfection. He wants to bring you closer to Him.

This is for you Catholics out there.
Divine Intimacy

1. The Cross is suffering viewed in the supernatural light of faith
   as an instrument of salvation and sanctification, and therefore, as
   an instrument of love. Seen in this light, the Cross is certainly
   worthy of love; it is the outstanding means of our sanctification.
   Our union with God cannot be accomplished except through
   suffering. St John of the Cross has explained the means by which
   the soul is to be purified, scraped to the bottom in order to reach
   this life of divine union. A programme of total mortification is
   required to break all our bonds, for we have within us many
   obstacles which keep us from bein entirely moved by God; and
   the accomplishment of this work is impossible without suffering.
   But active suffering, that is, the mortifications and penances
   inspired by our personal initiative, is not sufficient. We especially
   need passive suffering. In other words, the Lord Himself must
   make us suffer, not only in our body, but also in our soul,
   because we are so covered with rust, so full of miseries that our
   total purification is not possible unless God Himself intervenes
   directly. To plunge us into passive suffering is, therefore, one of
   His greatest works of mercy, a proof of His exceeding love.

 

[LilyM]

Personally I do prefer the crucifix, though I do have a cross in my house and a pendant cross too.

To me an empty cross could almost be that of anyone who has ever been crucified - Spartacus, or the two thieves who were crucified Jesus or what have you. It’s having the corpus on it that reminds me better precisely WHOSE death we are remembering and why.

Not that I think these aims cannot be achieved with an empty cross, though. I guess they can for those who are so inclined in their thoughts.

 

[AlegreFe]

To me an empty cross could almost be that of anyone who has ever been crucified - Spartacus, or the two thieves who were crucified Jesus or what have you. It’s having the corpus on it that reminds me better precisely WHOSE death we are remembering and why.

I only have crucifixes. I was going to put what I thought about having just an empty cross in my house, but I thought it might offend some people. But you kind of think the same thing that I do about an empty cross.

Another reason for me would be that I wouldn’t feel CATHOLIC if I had just crosses hanging on my walls instead of a CRUCIFIX. I mean I would still feel Catholic of course. You know what I mean. Nothing such as a bare cross will ever stop me from feeling or being Catholic. Not only that, it just looks too Protestant to me; hanging on the wall that is. Sorry, but that’s how I feel. Every Catholic family should have at least one crucifix hanging by their front door.