Protestants and the Virgin Mary

[kayla]

Do Protestants pray to the Virgin Mary? if not what are their beliefs about her?

 

[ahimsaman72]

As there are many different “brands” of “protestants” I can only give you a heads up on baptist and pentecostals - that is, Mary is to be honored as The Lord’s mother only. She is not considered “mother of God” and is not prayed to. But, then, no other saints are prayed too either. The concept of Mary being prayed to is about like statues or relics - they are considered idolatry and forbidden.

 

[Mary]

I have met incredibly violent opposition to holding Mary in any sort of esteem. Let alone asking her to intercede for us (many don’t seem to understand it no matter at which angle I approach the subject) many fundamentalists argue that she’s not even to be honoured as a holy woman. One person told me Jesus himself rebuked her, telling her she was no different than anyone else.

From reading the bible, we know that she was called, “Blessed among women,” “chosen”, etc… So I imagine they just choose to ignore what they don’t understand.

Now, even Eastern Orthodox Christians, while loving and honouring Mary as much, if not more, than we do, don’t recognize her as being a perpetual virgin, nor the Immaculate Conception (born without original sin).

That’s what I know!!

 

[hank]

I do not know of any that do. Mary was the mother of Jesus, and when she died, that was it. Most protestants that I know of do not pray to anyone other than Jesus, God, or the Holy spirit.

 

[mkw]

Strange,

Protestants will ask each other to pray for them (which is wonderful, as we do the same), but they refuse to ask the Mother of our Lord to pray for us.

I am confused about one thing though. When a protestant looses a loved one, they believe they now have an Angel in heaven looking out for them, but they claim Mary cannot do that for us.

How can they believe one-but not the other?

BTW…I meant to say in the above paragraph,SOME protestants, did not mean to imply ALL

 

[Steve_M]

Mary:

I have met incredibly violent opposition to holding Mary in any sort of esteem. Let alone asking her to intercede for us

The same ones that say, “she doesn’t need to interceed for you, you can pray directly to Jesus” are the same ones making out prayer list and asking everyone to pray for them. They don’t understand, or won’t, that Mary is not being asked to do anything other than to pray for us. Before I became Catholic, after doing some reading about Catholicism, I was convinced that Catholics bordered on heretics for praying to Mary and the saints, among other things. I now know better. I was Southern Baptist, and I never heard here called “blessed” or anything else. She was just a woman that happened to bear the child of God. Anybody that thinks rationally about it can see that she was more than an ordinary woman. There had to be something special about her. When, however, you’re always told by your church leaders that there’s nothing special about her, you tend to believe it.

 

[hlgomez]

The same ones that say, “she doesn’t need to interceed for you, you can pray directly to Jesus” are the same ones making out prayer list and asking everyone to pray for them.

Oh my! How very true this one is! It makes me … sometimes they just don’t see that they are contradicting what they say.

Pio

 

[cmcruz]

I can answer from my background as a former Evangelical Protestant–Mary is the mother of Jesus; that’s it. As a child, I was taught to respect her for submitting to God’s will for her life (her “Fiat”), and she was to serve as a model of a godly woman (among other biblical examples). But she was not to be venerated as Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, etc. We certainly did not believe in her Immaculate Conception or her Assumption, and we ridiculed Catholics that did.

And I’d like to try and explain the contradiction that we as Catholics see in Protestants who ask others to pray for them but will not ask Mary to do the same. Protestants believe in the power of prayering for others, and, as you all have mentioned, they have no qualms about this practice. However, they see asking Mary or the saints to pray for us as fundamentally different and anti-Scriptural. In making this argument, they refer to verses such as the following:

“Brothers and sisters: Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through man, the resurrection of the dead came also through man. For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at His coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to His God and Father, when He has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.” (1 Corinthians 12:20-7)

According to this verse, many Protestants will argue, Mary and the saints are not yet in heaven, and thus they cannot hear our prayers and it would be foolish to ask for their intercession. (This interpretation is based on a very literal reading of the passage, and is obviously connected to Rapture theology.) People that are still alive, however, can be effective intercessors. This is the fundamental difference.

I hope that sheds some light on the issue.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

kayla:

Do Protestants pray to the Virgin Mary? if not what are their beliefs about her?

Some Protestants see the term “pray to” and automatically see it as the same things are praying to God. They simply do not understand that to “pray to” someone in heaven is simply to ask him to pray FOR you. They mistakenly see it as going to Mary in a way that you should only go to God.

That being said, there are actually a growing number of Protestants praying the Rosary. It seems that some Protestants are starting understanding the difference between praying to God and asking Mary to pray FOR them and to see its value.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Steve M:

…She was just a woman that happened to bear the child of God…When, however, you’re always told by your church leaders that there’s nothing special about her, you tend to believe it.

These statements make me want to cry. It saddens me what our separated brethern are missing out on. I pray all will come to know our Church as true.

 

[Cat]

mkw,
I converted to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism.

I have never heard Protestants teach the doctrine that when a loved one dies, we have another angel in heaven.

I am curious where you heard that doctrine; specifically, which Protestant denomination or church.

I was taught that angels and humans are different beings that God created. Angels remain angels, and humans remain humans. Humans don’t become angels after they die.

I have a pretty broad scope of Protestant involvment to draw on. I’ve not only been involved in evangelical churches, but also pentecostal churches through my husband, and two years in mainline Protestant church (Reformed).

I’m also pretty familiar with the non-denoms, which may be evangelical, fundamental, pentecostal, or a combination of any and all.

So I’m very curious about the “humans turn into angels” doctrine.

Thanks!

Cat

 

[Imprimartin]

cmcruz:

I can answer from my background as a former Evangelical Protestant–Mary is the mother of Jesus; that’s it. As a child, I was taught to respect her for submitting to God’s will for her life (her “Fiat”), and she was to serve as a model of a godly woman (among other biblical examples). But she was not to be venerated as Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, etc. We certainly did not believe in her Immaculate Conception or her Assumption, and we ridiculed Catholics that did.

And I’d like to try and explain the contradiction that we as Catholics see in Protestants who ask others to pray for them but will not ask Mary to do the same. Protestants believe in the power of prayering for others, and, as you all have mentioned, they have no qualms about this practice. However, they see asking Mary or the saints to pray for us as fundamentally different and anti-Scriptural. In making this argument, they refer to verses such as the following:

“Brothers and sisters: Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through man, the resurrection of the dead came also through man. For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at His coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to His God and Father, when He has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.” (1 Corinthians 12:20-7)

According to this verse, many Protestants will argue, Mary and the saints are not yet in heaven, and thus they cannot hear our prayers and it would be foolish to ask for their intercession. (This interpretation is based on a very literal reading of the passage, and is obviously connected to Rapture theology.) People that are still alive, however, can be effective intercessors. This is the fundamental difference.

I hope that sheds some light on the issue.

If they believe that Mary and the saints are not in heaven yet, where are they? I thought they believe that there is only a heaven and a hell. That’s why they argue against purgatory. If they’re not in heaven or hell or on earth, where are they? I heard a theory where they are “asleep” (the doctrine of soul sleep) or even that they get anhilitated (JW’s). But not all protestants beleive in soul sleep. Saying that they think that Mary is not in heaven only appears even more contradicting.

As for a unrelated general statement: When protestants pray, they call that worship. That is their only kind of worship. Catholic’s do something else as their highest kind of worship: Mass. And so we can’t do “Mass” to anyone else but God. If we did, it would be idolatry.

But protestants don’t have anything like that. All they have is praying/singing/listening to sermon, etc. which they consider full-on worship. And so if they see us doing those things to someone other than God, then they view that as idolatry. Using that logic, I would conclude the same thing.

Martin

 

[cmcruz]

Imprimartin:

If they believe that Mary and the saints are not in heaven yet, where are they? I thought they believe that there is only a heaven and a hell. That’s why they argue against purgatory. If they’re not in heaven or hell or on earth, where are they? I heard a theory where they are “asleep” (the doctrine of soul sleep) or even that they get anhilitated (JW’s). But not all protestants beleive in soul sleep. Saying that they think that Mary is not in heaven only appears even more contradicting.

Speaking from my own experience as a “non-denominational” Evangelical, we believed in something like the “soul sleep” you mentioned. The explanation is a bit tricky, but it went something like this: When someone dies, his soul is suspended outside of time–to the soul, it seems as if judgment (being sent to heaven or hell) happens immediately, but it actually does not happen until the Rapture (some of my friends who did not endorse the Rapture would just say it happened at the Second Coming). So, in this view, Mary’s soul is awaiting the judgment of Christ, but the soul is not experiencing the passing of time. The “sleep” metaphor for death comes up, among other places, in 1 Thessalonians 4, and I think this is the basis for this theory.

Yes, I know this sounds complicated and rather non-Scriptural–which is a contradiction in itself, considering that my church claimed to be firmly sola scriptura. But that’s how we explained it.

I hope that helps somewhat. God Bless!

 

[Cherub]

Here is something I found that Presbyterians think of Mary: Presbyterian Mary

I was curious because I have presbyterian relatives.

 

[Contarini]

The only Protestant tradition that I know of with a large number of people who pray to Mary, or with churches that might have official devotions to Mary, is Anglicanism. And the Anglicans who engage in such devotions would almost unanimously deny that they are Protestants. (I’m a partial exception. I have no qualms about praying to the Blessed Virgin, but I don’t try to claim I’m not a Protestant–but that’s more of a historical judgment; theologically I don’t believe most of the historic Protestant distinctives.) Ask GKC for more info if you find this confusing. He’s sure to be lurking somewhere about. At any rate, the majority of Anglican churches do not have an official place for devotions to Mary, but a significant number of Anglo-Catholics do. My former parish in NC, for instance, had a weekly Rosary, used the Litany of the Saints at the Easter Vigil, said the Angelus before the Liturgy on certain feast days, said the Regina Caeli during Easter, and celebrated the Feast of St. Mary the Virgin (15 August–what you call the Assumption!) on a Sunday when it fell on that day, whereas the Book of Common Prayer calls for saints’ days (including August 15) to be transferred to a weekday. We were in a minority but by no means unique within the Anglican tradition.

Other Protestant traditions would uniformly reject the idea that we can ask for the prayers of glorified saints. You do find individuals praying the Rosary and things like that (my Methodist wife would be an example of this, and was before I met her; she also had a friend in Illinois who was a Methodist and said the Rosary), but it’s not something a church would normally do publicly.

Mainstream Protestant churches accept the first four Councils, and hence accept the title “Theotokos” applied to Mary, though many Protestants worry about the implications of “Mother of God” as they have worked themselves out in the Catholic tradition. Many fundamentalists reject the title–in some cases this may reflect a heretical Christology, but in others it may be sheer ignorance or a refusal to infer the title from orthodox Christology.

Most Protestants also reject the perpetual virginity, though this is less dogmatic and more a matter of not seeing it in Scripture (and as Catholics often point out, the Reformers almost unanimously a ccepted it). Liberal Protestants, of course, often reject the virginal conception of Jesus or see it as non-literal (often out of rationalism or an over-reliance on historical criticism; but it may also be a fear that the virginal conception amounts to a disparagement of human sexuality, and in the case of some German theologians the argument is actually that the VC denies Jesus’ full humanity and erroneously links His divinity to a special biological origin). No Protestant denomination would take such a stance, though–most Protestant denominations affirm the Apostles’, if not Nicene Creeds, for one thing. Indeed, for conservative Protestants the virginal conception of Jesus is one of the principle litmus tests of orthodoxy.

Protestants generally see Mary as having been a sinner saved by grace like the rest of us, but most would agree that she was an extraordinarily holy person.

One final note–it was claimed erroneously that the Orthodox don’t believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Some ecumenical Orthodox theologians have claimed that it isn’t dogma, but this is a minority view, and even those who have claimed it isn’t dogma would still hold it as a pious opinion. Their rejection of the Immaculate Conception is not a claim that Mary was sinful, but rather a rejection of the Western understanding of original sin. They would say that it is not sin properly speaking but rather a taint or weakness, and they don’t have a problem with Mary sharing in that. They agree that she was preserved free from everything properly called sin.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[mkw]

Cat,

Sorry for the delay in responding. At my son’s FORMER church, a fund. indp. baptist church, their pastor was talking about a small child who had died, his parents being a member of his congretation. He (the pastor) assured everyone that this child was now in heaven and the family had a new angel watching over them.

At first I thought that maybe this preacher was just giving comfort to the family, but many in the congregation also mentioned that their own loved ones where also angels protecting from heaven. At the time, I was still an atheist, but even I thought this was a little strange.

I have NO CLUE as to what any other protestent church teaches concerning this, I only know what this pastor said to his congregation.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Steve M:

The same ones that say, “she doesn’t need to interceed for you, you can pray directly to Jesus” are the same ones making out prayer list and asking everyone to pray for them. They don’t understand, or won’t, that Mary is not being asked to do anything other than to pray for us. Before I became Catholic, after doing some reading about Catholicism, I was convinced that Catholics bordered on heretics for praying to Mary and the saints, among other things. I now know better. I was Southern Baptist, and I never heard here called “blessed” or anything else. She was just a woman that happened to bear the child of God. Anybody that thinks rationally about it can see that she was more than an ordinary woman. There had to be something special about her. When, however, you’re always told by your church leaders that there’s nothing special about her, you tend to believe it.

To be honest, praying to anyone besides Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit just never made sense to me growing up as a southern baptist.

Another poster hit the nail on the head about the state of the dead after you die. Obviously most protestants don’t believe in purgatory as that is a catholic doctrine and not found in protestant Bible. All Baptist churches I attended believed one went to heaven or hell after they died - no purg. The individual believer was judged and awaited the “general” judgement which involved saints and sinners.

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists believe in “soul-sleep”. The body waits till resurrection day in the grave and then are judged according to their works. That’s the basic overivew.

It’s basically believed that only angels and persons of the Trinity can transcend the divide between heaven and hell. I’ve not seen explicit evidence outside of church tradition that teaches that humans once exalted can help in any way.

Christians still on earth still have a voice and body to voice prayers and petition God. Those already in heaven have no real body (because it’s still on earth!), therefore no voicing of prayers.
Just stating the general protestant view for you in hopes that it sheds some light.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Imprimartin:

If they believe that Mary and the saints are not in heaven yet, where are they? I thought they believe that there is only a heaven and a hell. That’s why they argue against purgatory. If they’re not in heaven or hell or on earth, where are they? I heard a theory where they are “asleep” (the doctrine of soul sleep) or even that they get anhilitated (JW’s). But not all protestants beleive in soul sleep. Saying that they think that Mary is not in heaven only appears even more contradicting.

As for a unrelated general statement: When protestants pray, they call that worship. That is their only kind of worship. Catholic’s do something else as their highest kind of worship: Mass. And so we can’t do “Mass” to anyone else but God. If we did, it would be idolatry.

But protestants don’t have anything like that. All they have is praying/singing/listening to sermon, etc. which they consider full-on worship. And so if they see us doing those things to someone other than God, then they view that as idolatry. Using that logic, I would conclude the same thing.

Martin

The masses I’ve been to also have praying, singing, listening to sermons. The obvious difference is the eucharist (which Lutherans and Episcopalians also celebrate). Fundamentalist don’t celebrate the eucharist anywhere near like catholics.

 

[Lance]

As a convert from Methodist, I was taught that Mary was the mother of Jesus and that she gave virgin birth. We were free to believe she had other children or not believe. I was never taught to pray to her or anyone other than God, I was not taught that it was wrong either. Since I was a very poor Methodist, I could be wrong on their official doctrin.

 

[Trelow]

As a Methodist going through RCIA, I will have to say that thanks to “Passion of the Christ” I have seen her in a much clearer light.
Before I never really gave her a second thought, but having children of my own, I truly cannot imagine what her heart felt, knowing this was coming for 30 years. She truly is blessed among women.