Protestants and the Virgin Mary

[Andyman1517]

For the most part, they believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin, however, did not remain a virgin her entire life. Many believe she had other children after Jesus (James, Jude, Simon). Protestants also reject the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception doctrines of the Roman Church.

 

[michael_servant]

I need some help with this one. My wife and I drove past a church with the title “Immaculate Conception Baptist Church” . I almost hurt my neck doing a double take. Is it possible that some Baptists believe that Mary was born sinless?

 

[ahimsaman72]

michael servant:

I need some help with this one. My wife and I drove past a church with the title “Immaculate Conception Baptist Church” . I almost hurt my neck doing a double take. Is it possible that some Baptists believe that Mary was born sinless?

That’s a first for me too!!! I’ve never heard of that either!

 

[cmcruz]

michael servant:

I need some help with this one. My wife and I drove past a church with the title “Immaculate Conception Baptist Church” . I almost hurt my neck doing a double take. Is it possible that some Baptists believe that Mary was born sinless?

This might sound kind of silly, and I certainly don’t know that this is the case, but perhaps they are referring to Jesus’ conception. Before I became a Catholic, I always thought that the “Immaculate Conception” that Catholics believed in referred to Jesus’ incarnation by the Holy Spirit, not Mary. (I know, I know–talk about misinformed!)

Just a thought.

 

[Steve_M]

michael servant:

I need some help with this one. My wife and I drove past a church with the title “Immaculate Conception Baptist Church” . I almost hurt my neck doing a double take. Is it possible that some Baptists believe that Mary was born sinless?

What some Protestant Churches have begun to do is to give their chruches Catholic sounding names. It makes it more comfortable for the Catholic to attend. This is being done quite a bit in areas that have high imigrant population from Latin America. They try to attract them with something that is familiar, such as the name. Some will even include statues of the Virgin Mary. Once they get them to the church, they begin trying to “save” them. It’s one of the reasons that many hispanics are converting to Protestant demonitations. This may not be the case in the specific church you’re referring to, but it is happening. Just something to be aware of.

 

[kfarose2585]

So where exactly do we Catholics get the concepts of Mary’s “immaculate conception” and “perpetual virginity”? Some have said that this is not a biblical belief, but I always thought it was.

 

[OraProNobis]

Mary:

One person told me Jesus himself rebuked her, telling her she was no different than anyone else.

I’ve heard this too. If Jesus rebuked his own mother then he would have been breaking the commandment “Honor thy Father and Mother” wouldn’t he? Impossible for him to break any commandment if he’s the Son of God. :nope:

 

[1plus1equals2]

If a protestant ever makes fun of the fact that we pray to mary the first thing I do is ask them if they have ever heard the Hail Mary, 9 out of 10 times the answer is no. Then recite it to them and explain how we dont pray to mary, we ask her to pray for us. Just like asking any other person to pray for you, we are simply asking Jesus’ mother. And If a postant ever makes fun of Mary, ask them if they remember what Jesus did when people disrespected his fathers’ house, what do they think he would do to someone who would disrespect his mother.

 

[mayra_hart]

i was taking a bible study with a few baptist an i was comfronted with that many times. for them if i decided to pray to the virgin an not to god first is consider idolatry,an no matter how do you try to explain to them that we catholic only pray to the virgin so he can pray to god they don’t get it. to be honest some of their commentaries i found offensive not to me but for mary. i was raised in puerto rico an the virgin is very important for us an we always treated with respect. bless you all

 

[Contarini]

kfarose,

The perpetual virginity of Mary is a very old tradition–it is first found in written form in a document called the “Protoevangelion of James,” which I believe is often dated to the 2nd century. It’s not clear how universal the belief was in the early centuries, but by the 4th century the major Church Fathers were condemning as heretical those who denied it.

The early Christian writers also speak of Mary as “immaculate” (i.e., “spotless”), but they don’t define what they mean by it, and you can find some Church Fathers who speak of her wavering in faith or something like that. But the general consensus was that she was supremely holy. Once the doctrine of original sin was clarified in the 5th century, this tended to mean that she was seen as free from original sin. This is a deduction from what Scripture teaches, not something explicitly taught in Scirpture (though some would say that it’s implicit in things like the angel’s greeting “Hail, full of grace”).

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[hlgomez]

About this “soul sleep” thing. If this is true, why then, did Moses and Elijah appeared “in glory” with Jesus in the mountain and the apostles Peter, James and John saw them. Were they in a soul sleep and was somewhere else but heaven? I think this soul sleep thing is just a invention of heretics to mislead true Christians. Remember during this time Jesus wasn’t crucified, died, and rose again yet… so shall we say that Moses, Elijah, and other righteous men and women in the OT are in a “soul sleep”? Also if the righteous men and women who were saved by Christ after his resurrection are in “soul sleep” and will wait till the second coming of Christ, why then did Christ said that those who follow him are alive and not dead? So if they are alive, then they are not sleeping. Their souls are in heaven awaiting for the time when Christ will come again and these souls will be reunited with their bodies.

Pio

 

[Giovanni]

I just want to scream. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!

When you take away the Immaculate Conception of the mother of Emmanuel, you take away His divinity. Try to understand, those who don’t believe what us catholics believe, the child in he woumb of the virgin Mary was God. How could God, reside in the woumb of one with original sin?.

Can someone answer that for me.

Blessed be the name of Jesus forever

 

[Contarini]

Giovanni,

Jesus ate with sinners and showed no repugnance to them. I see absolutely no reason why he would refuse to take flesh in the womb of a sinner. Perhaps you don’t like sinners as much as Jesus does. In which case I’m glad he is God Incarnate and you are not.

I’m not denying that there are arguments for the fittingness of the Immaculate Conception. But it’s nonsense to say that it is necessary. That way you would disprove the Incarnation altogether. The world is full of sin, and Jesus obviously didn’t mind living in the midst of it. (Well, maybe he minded, but he did it anyway.)

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[mark_a]

Mary:

Now, even Eastern Orthodox Christians, while loving and honouring Mary as much, if not more, than we do, don’t recognize her as being a perpetual virgin, nor the Immaculate Conception (born without original sin).

That’s what I know!!

Dear Mary-

I just read in another thread from Fr. Ambrose that Orthodox DO believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Fr. Ambrose is Orthodox and is giving us Catholics all we can handle about the Great Scism. Sorry, forgot which thread.

Regards-

 

[carol_marie]

One thing about Mary and the rest of the Saints that I’m still unsure about is how can they hear us, especially if we’re praying in our heart? I get it that asking Mary to pray for me is the same as asking my friend here on Earth to pray for me but I have to actually phone up my friend and tell her my request, she can’t read my mind of course. How could Mary & the Saints? That seems like something unique to God. ??

 

[Contarini]

The saints are with God, so I don’t see any problems with their hearing our prayers. This is a Protestant objection that never made much sense to me (even back when I was theologically a Protestant, which I am now only in the broadest and thinnest sense).

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[davidv]

carol marie:

One thing about Mary and the rest of the Saints that I’m still unsure about is how can they hear us, especially if we’re praying in our heart? I get it that asking Mary to pray for me is the same as asking my friend here on Earth to pray for me but I have to actually phone up my friend and tell her my request, she can’t read my mind of course. How could Mary & the Saints? That seems like something unique to God. ??

This exact question came up on Relevent Radio this afternoon. Dr. Mark Miravalle explained it this way. The angels that had such Abraham had such great dovotion to, were describe to have certain qualities that were God-like, yet they were not God. Likewise, each of us, in order to fulfill our vocation, are granted certain attributes that are Godly. So, for Mary to fulfill her vocation as our spiritual mother, she would have to have the God-like qualities necessary to do so. As our intercessor, she needs to be able to hear the requests that she would bring to the King.

 

[Theodora]

Cat:

mkw,
I converted to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism.

I have a pretty broad scope of Protestant involvment to draw on. I’ve not only been involved in evangelical churches, but also pentecostal churches through my husband, and two years in mainline Protestant church (Reformed).

I’m also pretty familiar with the non-denoms, which may be evangelical, fundamental, pentecostal, or a combination of any and all.

Cat

Cat,

I am turning to you for some information. I have spoken with a Pentecostal and a Fundamentalist (Baptist) about praying to saints.

When I made the comparison that praying to a person in Heaven is a very powerful means for prayer to be heard, just like they ask each other to pray for one another, they could not see how one can communicate with anyone who has died - saint or no saint.
I explained to them about saints and them being more alive than us here on earth. Their thinking was that you cannot communicate with anyone who has died, otherwise you’re communicating with the dead, and that’s forbidden. Of course, as christians, they do believe in an afterlife, but they could not seem to see that if one is in Heaven, one is alive and not dead.

I appreciate your response. Thank you.

Theodora

 

[Antonio_B]

kayla:

Do Protestants pray to the Virgin Mary? if not what are their beliefs about her?

Part of the problem is that when we Catholics say we “pray” to Mary, Protestants immediately think we mean “worship” Mary. All prayer is, is communication with God, the saints and Mary. Proper worship is adoration and adoration is due only to God.

Antonio

 

[Maccabees]

WOW! Immacualte Conception Baptist Church Eh!

That’s a new one for me. Like many of you here I think these guys are confused somehow on Jesus Conception which is the virginal conception thus the title Virgin Mary. St Anne was not deemed a virgin but Mary was protected form the stain of original sin (per catholic theology) the conception was a normal sexual one albeit a favor of God. absolved Mary from the effects (original sin) of a normal conception.
Jesus conception is not refered ot as that way as his conception was virginal thus no futher favor was needed by God to protect him from original sin. HIs conception is more supernatural than Mary’s. The Immaculate Conception does not equate Mary in any way to Jesus as her conception does not equal a virginal conception.
It does lift us Jesus Christocentirc theology as Mary is the anti-type of the OT Ark of the Covenant which was so holy it could not be touched by sinful man. Likewise in the NT Type of the Ark of the Covenant (who is Mary) it therefore would be most fitting for Mary not to be touched by the stain or original sin.

What is most troubling about most American Protestants is their outright denial of Mary as the Mother of God. Something even all the reformers aknowledged. The mainline denominations have forgotten their founders theology on Mary and the more evangelical brands like Baptist and Pentacostals have become down right anti-Mary and not only deny Mary as the Mother of God but frown on Mary as having any kind of special relationship to Jesus in any way after his birth. That simply blows me away.
Many comments from evangelicals after seeing the Passion of the Chirst comment that they never though of Mary and Jesus realtionship being that personal. WEll duh she’s His mother!