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Booklover
Guest
I just don’t understand how Protestants can think that God would allow his Son, who was purity Himself, to be born of a sinner???
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NamedforHer
Guest
Thanks for your helpful reply, Dennis—I’m with you on everything—relation to Son, authority, honor. So let me pin it down further: If/when you ask Mary specifically to “save/protect” us, are you really meaning that you’re **asking her to ask Jesus **for this, just in abbreviated fashion, as you trust her to not receive it in an idolatrous way, but to simply understand what you mean and pass the petition on to Christ?
Blessings–M
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dennisknapp
Guest
I think CCC 970 could help us in our discussion.
It states, “Mary’s function as mother fo men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men…flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it. No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”
Peace
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Exporter
Guest
**cmcruz, You wrote,"**According to this verse, many Protestants will argue, Mary and the saints are not yet in heaven, and thus they cannot hear our prayers and it would be foolish to ask for their intercession."
This sounds strange to me. I have heard Protestants say a loved one who has just died in now in heaven with Jesus and their loved ones. Yet you say Mary and the saints are not yet in heaven!
Can you explain this?
This sounds strange to me. I have heard Protestants say a loved one who has just died in now in heaven with Jesus and their loved ones. Yet you say Mary and the saints are not yet in heaven!
Can you explain this?
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NamedforHer
Guest
CCC–The perfect reference for contemplating this—flows, rests, depends, draws; radiated, manifold. Helpful Again! Now, I drive on (like an annoying flying insect, I should imagine…
): How does a devout Catholic make sure to **maintain **this true perspective, and not surpass it to bypass Christ in his/her enthusiasm to honor Mary, and start thinking of Our Lady as an “additional” or “alternative” source of these salutary blessings, rather than a loving conduit? Isn’t that a powerful temptation, when cultivating a strong relationship with her? Is avoiding this a conscious effort, or does the right balance just start to come naturally in most Catholic prayer lives? Is it a matter of constant self-reminding? Or put another way, what does cause some (SOME) Catholics to seem (SEEM) (from the Protestant perspective, anyway) to go overboard with Mary, to the point of never seeming to remember just Who exactly it is she is actually reflecting and serving?My brain is starting to hurt. (Overworked?? Underpowered??? I’d love to be able to move past this, stop pestering people (HA --As If !!), and start involving myself in other topics on this great forum…) Thanks for the patience; Blessings.
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flameburns623
Guest
Because Protestants believe Christ’s purity is not dependent in any fashion upon the human race whom He came to save. It is not a biological attribute which must be passed on to Him by genetic transmission but a native trait of His Being, of His own Personhood, apart from any relationship to His Mother or any other of His human forebears. Otherwise the purity He inherited would need to regress backwards clear back to our primeval parents–negating the need for Him to become incarnate to begin with. Christ inherited human flesh from Mary–hence He is both God and Man–but purity is not something which inheres to flesh itself–it is an attribute of spirit.I just don’t understand how Protestants can think that God would allow his Son, who was purity Himself, to be born of a sinner???
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dennisknapp
Guest
Abuse is definitely a cause for concern, but this does not make it false. What is needed is balance and a clear understanding. This comes through correction and proper catechesis.CCC–The perfect reference for contemplating this—flows, rests, depends, draws; radiated, manifold. Helpful Again! Now, I drive on (like an annoying flying insect, I should imagine…
My brain is starting to hurt. (Overworked?? Underpowered??? I’d love to be able to move past this, stop pestering people (HA --As If !!), and start involving myself in other topics on this great forum…) Thanks for the patience; Blessings.
Have a great day!
Peace
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NamedforHer
Guest
Thanks, Dennis—same to you.
Blessings, M
Blessings, M
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
I can’t speak for anyone else obviously,but for myself it is not at all a temptation to over ride Christ with Mary.The wonderful things about Mary were given to her byChristCCC–The perfect reference for contemplating this—flows, rests, depends, draws; radiated, manifold. Helpful Again! Now, I drive on (like an annoying flying insect, I should imagine…
My brain is starting to hurt. (Overworked?? Underpowered??? I’d love to be able to move past this, stop pestering people (HA --As If !!), and start involving myself in other topics on this great forum…) Thanks for the patience; Blessings.
Mother Teresa didn’t do what she did of her own power,she decreased so that Christ could increase.Saints do not make themselves,God’s grace make Saints.Protestants get paranoid about the Saints in general,they feel like we are worshiping them which is a crazy concept to Catholics.We ask them to pray for us,like you would ask a freind to pray for you.When you are a part of the Body of Christ you do not cease to be so at physical death.When you acknowledge the gifts given to the saints you are giving Glory to God,because without Him they would be nothing.Also, I would like to thankyou very much for your kind manner of posting and sincere request toknow.It is very Christlike and honorable.God Bless You
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NamedforHer
Guest
People like you, Lisa, and so many other regular posters on CA, have given me the courage to ask & learn (well, attempt to learn, s-l-o-w-l-y…I can’t speak for anyone else obviously,but for myself it is not at all a temptation to over ride Christ with Mary.The wonderful things about Mary were given to her byChrist
). I think I need to focus more on exploring what IS Catholic worship (i.e. eucharist—what a beautiful, heart-stopping discovery!!) than dwell on specific details of what is NOT, and I know God will continue to guide me and others by such means as this forum. Blessings to you also. M.
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joehar
Guest
I have already mentioned that the role that is ascribed to Mary by Catholics is unbiblical. Let me give you more evidence of that. Below, I have included an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia, where the writer acknowledges that their interpretation of a passage in the book of Genesis must be more accurate than the original Hebrew text, as their interpretation ascribes more power to Mary:
As for the Catholic view of Mary as Mediatrix, let me refer you to:
1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” Not Mary you cant mention her in the same breath as the Christ . (Lord God Almighty)
As for the Catholic view of Mary as Mediatrix, let me refer you to:
1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” Not Mary you cant mention her in the same breath as the Christ . (Lord God Almighty)
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joehar
Guest
I have mentioned that the role that is ascribed to Mary by Catholics is unbiblical. Let me give you more evidence of that. Below, I have included an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia, where the writer acknowledges that their interpretation of a passage in the book of Genesis must be more accurate than the original Hebrew text, as their interpretation ascribes more power to Mary:
As for the Catholic view of Mary as Mediatrix, let me refer you to:
1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” Not Mary you cant mention her in the same breath as the Christ . (Lord God Almighty)
As for the Catholic view of Mary as Mediatrix, let me refer you to:
1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” Not Mary you cant mention her in the same breath as the Christ . (Lord God Almighty)
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jman507
Guest
1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. (RSV)
1 Timothy 2:1-6 says that we should be intercessors for others. As Catholics we believe that the saints in heaven will interceed for us too. In James 5:16ff “the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.” So the prayers of Mary have special efficacy, because of her role of saying yes to God and giving birth to Jesus. Well actually she is more blessed because she had faith and was always seeking Jesus. It is only through Christ, that any intercessory prayers will be meaningful.
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joehar
Guest
Praying to dead saints where is this listed in the bible. If you can show me this in the word i will keep quiet.
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joehar
Guest
jman507 said:
He is talking about when you pray , you pray for other people on their behalf to the Holy Father -God Almighty, not the Pope.
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Mickey
Guest
Come on Joe, you know we don’t pray to the Pope! Furthermore, God is not limited to time and space. Believe it or not–whether you like it or not—those dead saints, (including Mary the mother of God), are praying for you too! With God, all things are possible!
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jman507
Guest
As is said in Mark 12:26-27 “As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead but the living. You are greatly mislead.”
God could not be the God of a dead Abrahman, Isaac, and Jacob otherwise that would contradict verse 27. It would be a contradiction to be a saint and to be dead.
God could not be the God of a dead Abrahman, Isaac, and Jacob otherwise that would contradict verse 27. It would be a contradiction to be a saint and to be dead.
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Malachi4U
Guest
Since you believe in ‘soul sleep’ can you show me where that is in Scripture? Are you an SDA?
Catholics believe that the Saints in heaven are alive and with God.
Please re-read the posts by Catholics above. Soul Sleep is the subject of another thread on this forum if you would like to discuss it there.
A prisoner of Christ,
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MaggieOH
Guest
Those who believe and teach that Mary had other children are either:
(1) heretics following the heresy of Helvidius;
(2) very ignorant of Scripture
There are 4 men who are claimed to be related in some way to Jesus. Their names are James the Less, Thaddeus, Simon and Joseph. Jude Thaddeus is actually the youngest of the four men in question, but he is older than Jesus.
It is the Scripture that names the parents of these 4 : Alphaeus or Clopas; and Mary, also known as “the other Mary” and as “wife of Clopas”. As well as being the sons of other people, claiming any of these four to be blood brothers of Jesus through Mary is a further contradiction of the Scripture and of the practices of the time. Under Judaic Law, other members of the family would have been called upon to look after Mary, yet He gave her over to John the Evangelizer. This was something that did not happen at that time.
The Reformers such as Martin Luther, John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli as well as others, also disagree with those who teach this particular heresy of Helvidius.
At the same time, there is a Gnostic gospel known as the protoevangelium of James that alleges that the four men were the sons of Joseph who was allegedly a widower with 4 sons. However, this is based upon speculation because of the knowledge that the 4 “brothers” were older than Jesus.
A full and proper study of the Scripture definitely reveals that there is no mention of any other children, thus negating once and for all these erroneous teachings of Helvidius and all the neo-Helvidians of this century.
Maggie
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MaggieOH
Guest
What do you understand as the Scriptural meaning of “dead”?
One cannot talk about saints and “dead” at the same time. Do you know why?
Maggie
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