PROTESTANTS! Answer me this....

[Semper_Fi_1]

I am Methodist and if you will notice the Methdist Articles of Religion and the Articles of the Church of England posted above are word for word the same
WP

This is because John Wesley & Co. did not setup a separate denomination. John Wesley died an Anglican priest in full communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The Methodist sect within the Anglican Church didn’t split off till after Wesley’s death, creating various Methodist denominations. The Methodists in Great Britain do not have an episcopacy while their American counterparts (Free Methodists & United Methodists) do.

 

[mercygate]

ALLFORHIM:

In John it all says no one person is greater then another John 17 :12-17.

Allforhim, is this your statement? What did you mean by it? That passage doesn’t say that in my reading. I think you might have typed something by mistake.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

You know what I agree with you we just have a different definition of who the church is. As I said above if we receive the message of Jesus Christ, repent and have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of us then we are disciples as well. Your right not just anyone can teach the Word of God only those who believe.

People can preach the Word of God (Christ) and the Bible, but that does not make their interpretation correct. Many Protestants claim that they believe in Scripture Alone (there isn’t one solid definition of Scripture Alone however), yet they have many traditions which they use to interpret Sacred Scripture to fit their specific belief system (Baptist, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, etc.).

If Sola Scriptura were true, then there wouldn’t be a need for Protestant seminaries or Bible Colleges because the Holy Spirit would be so infused in the heart of that Protestant that the Holy Spirit would interpret the passage without any schooling (beyond a basic literacy requirement).

This schooling is where the Protestant tradition comes from and is almost identical in terms of how it operates to the Catholic magisterium in terms of how the authority and Protestant traditions are passed along.

On the other hand, you have the Catholic Church which has existed since the time of Pentecost and we can trace our successors back to the Apostles through surviving documents from the early Church.

Sola Scriptura is wrong because there has always been an episcopacy setup in place to lead the flock. In the early centuries when there were only specific books of the Bible passed along to local churches (dioceses), people were very, very hungry for Scripture. They trusted their local clergy to ensure that what they were reading was true and not a work of the Gnostics or other early heretics.

There was a visible institution called the Church and the Magisterium which was setup to pass along Scripture & Tradition to the people and we need to assent to its authority to interpret doctrine & dogma, but we can use common sense and look to see where this doctrine & dogma comes from by reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Allforhim, is this your statement? What did you mean by it? That passage doesn’t say that in my reading. I think you might have typed something by mistake.

WOW I completely put thw wrong verse OOPS sorry about the confusion.

John 13: 12–17 Lets hope that is the right one I have so many things on my mind and actually I shouldnt even be here I have too much to do.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

on cloning, that is my point. the bible doesn’t speak on it. but the church does.

about the missionaries, what guarantee do the people have that the missionaries are teaching truth and not error? If they don’t have access to the sole authority (bible) because they can’t read (as most all christians in history couldn’t) how would these poor sheep discern the truth in the gospel. what assurance do they have?

I know you are getting bombarded here but i have a question for you: You seem to have pretty mainline protestant beliefs about salvation and authority. Do you think that Jehovah’s witnesses and Seventh Day adventists who have different views from yourself are heretical and in error or do they teach truth as well?

Hi,
I dont call anyone heretics. I just think they are sadly mistaken. I do think they teach in error.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

If this is true, then doctrines don’t matter or conflicting and contradictory doctrines are acceptable, right? I believe Jesus established one church, which is visible and doctrine matters and does not conflict. This church contains the fullness of truth as revealed by God; all others have partial truths at best. (John 17:22-23 - Christians should be one as Jesus and the Father are one.) Could Jesus and the Father contradict each other?

Hi, yes I agree it is just we define the church in different terms.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well, bless you for posting, and hope you’re enough of a glutton for punishment to stick around. Look, most people in this forum aren’t going to agree with your debating points–I’m still tenuously a Protestant, and I don’t think I do–but I’m glad you’re putting your thoughts out there and submitting them to the test of debate & discussion.

Maybe the other posters will change your mind about some things. Maybe you’ll change theirs. But if you hang in there, whatever you end up believing will certainly be battle-tested.

And I’m not just softening you up for the next time I jump on one of your posts with both feet.

Hi,
LOL
If you knew my in laws you would understand I have very thick skin.

I can handle anything with God only with God:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Hi, yes I agree it is just we define the church in different terms.

Would you say that Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons are members of your church?

Why, or why not?

 

[Lampo]

Hi, yes I agree it is just we define the church in different terms.

Hi and Merry Christmas! You agree with my entire statement? In your definition of church, do doctrines matter or is it okay for them to conflict with each other? Your definition of church is an invisible, abstract, spiritual church in which all believers, regardless of denomination are members, correct?

 

[mdgspencer]

Catholics sometimes respond to the doctrine that salvation is by faith alone with James 2:1:faith without works is dead. I would think those who believe in sola scriptura would feel obligated to somehow face this teaching in James, since it is part of the Bible’s teaching on faith. Catholics actually believe that faith is essential, but instead of finding it the whole story, consider that it is the beginning of salvation.
I wonder though if a minority of Protestants nowadays believe in salvation by faith alone, in view of the strong emphases in the largest Protestant Churchs on helping the poor and in social action in general. (Not of course that numbers show who is right.)
The Catholics on this forum might like to read Scott Hahn’s book, “Rome Sweet Rome, Our Journey to Cathocism.” He strongly believed in the doctrine of sola scriptura, but then he looked in the Bible and didn’t find this doctrine there. He was quite troubled by this for a time. This was an important realization in his conversion to Catholicism.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi All:wave: ,

I just have one last thing to say and then you probably wont hear from me too much because I am being bombarded with ----well you know it is that time of year. If I missed responding to anyone I apologize. I am writing this in a hurry.

I think we are all missing the point here. What is something that the bible and the church have in common? JESUS CHRIST. What did Jesus tell us to do? FOLLOW HIM, BELIEVE IN HIM. I think when we go back and forth on these topics Jesus gets lost in the shuffle.

Whether or not you believe in bible alone or the CC one thing I KNOW FOR SURE is JESUS should be the center of my universe. The bible is all about Jesus. The OT was the history leading up to Jesus’s birth. Every chapter of the OT paints a picture of Jesus. The NT is all about Jesus and what He did for US and that we need to believe and try to be Christ-like. That should be the focus of all of our lives not who is right and who is wrong but do you and I truly follow Christ and love Him with all of our heart, mind and soul.

I cant speak for anyone but myself and I say YES Lord I do BELEIVE—AMEN!!:dancing:

To be honest with you I believe that whether you worship in the CC or baptist or non-denom or methodist(sorry for what denoms I forgot to mention)as long as you have Jesus Christ in your heart and are following Him then AMEN and God Bless!

Ok enough preaching from me! I probably wont get back to any responses because of what I have stated above soo
God Bless all of you and have a safe and Merry Christmas.

I pray that all of us keep Christ the center of our universe.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Child (I’ll use the familiar, I feel like I know you!);

You are acting like a simpleton here. If what you say is true about the 10 Commandments, what about the other laws in Leviticus or Deuteronomy? Are they of equal weight in your biblical rosy glasses? And then there’s that sticky problem of Jesus telling the multitude about those OTHER two commandments. OOPS! I guess His Dad blew it back in the day.

I thought these forums were supposed to be for debating and not name calling? That was harsh and uncalled for. ALLFORHIM has been nothing but courteous and respectful in expressing her views. They may contradict the CC but she’s never insulted you for what you’ve believed.

Child, get over it, the Bible is there because the Catholic Church put it together almost 350 years AFTER the resurrection of Christ.

Can you give dates and proof to back this up instead of insulting her?

JonathanKinsman:

Your ministers do not speak Greek, koine or Attic, and I doubt if they have every read the Early Fathers in the original Latin.
As to Aramaic and Hebrew, they use a dictionary like the rest of us.

No Catholic priest today can speak those languages at the normal, run-of-the-mill parish. There may be instances where cloistered priests have the opportunity to study more and therefore can become educated in those languages.
What does it matter if ministers can’t speak ancient languages? Everything has been translated for all to understand.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Would you say that Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons are members of your church?

Why, or why not?

Hi,

From what I know about their beliefs-----no. Dont ask me to list their beliefs because I dont know them. Most important is that they dont believe who Jesus was. The SDA’s Im not sure I dont know enough about them.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I thought these forums were supposed to be for debating and not name calling? That was harsh and uncalled for. ALLFORHIM has been nothing but courteous and respectful in expressing her views. They may contradict the CC but she’s never insulted you for what you’ve believed.

Can you give dates and proof to back this up instead of insulting her?

No Catholic priest today can speak those languages at the normal, run-of-the-mill parish. There may be instances where cloistered priests have the opportunity to study more and therefore can become educated in those languages.
What does it matter if ministers can’t speak ancient languages? Everything has been translated for all to understand.

Hi,
Thank you mrs. abbott. I feel the love from some of you.

 

[Lampo]

What does it matter if ministers can’t speak ancient languages? Everything has been translated for all to understand.

Yes, and who translated them?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi and Merry Christmas! You agree with my entire statement? In your definition of church, do doctrines matter or is it okay for them to conflict with each other? Your definition of church is an invisible, abstract, spiritual church in which all believers, regardless of denomination are members, correct?

Hi, Yes and we as believers are to be a light to the world to show them who Jesus Christ is–that is the visible church by my definition. The doctrines in our church do not contradict each other. They contradict the CC but we do not have conflict from within.(at least at my church )The bible does not contradict itself and as you know that is what we follow and we trust and have faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit and I shouldnt leave out God to keep us safe and teach us the truth. I know the CC says the same thing so I guess we will have to wait and see. But for now I choose Christ!! AMEN!!

 

[mrs_abbott]

Yes, and who translated them?

Scholars. What’s your point?

 

[Lampo]

Hi, Yes and we as believers are to be a light to the world to show them who Jesus Christ is–that is the visible church by my definition. The doctrines in our church do not contradict each other. They contradict the CC but we do not have conflict from within.(at least at my church )The bible does not contradict itself and as you know that is what we follow and we trust and have faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit and I shouldnt leave out God to keep us safe and teach us the truth. I know the CC says the same thing so I guess we will have to wait and see. But for now I choose Christ!! AMEN!!

So does your church claim to be the one true church founded by Jesus Christ?

 

[Lampo]

Scholars. What’s your point?

My point is that we rely on the Catholic Church for the correct translation.

 

[jmcrae]

Scholars. What’s your point?

It was St. Jerome (a Catholic priest) and his assistants, who were also Catholics, who did the first translations from which everyone else, including Protestants, gets theirs.