Protestants are heretical?

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jam070406 said:
“It is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of ‘Church’ could possibly be attributed to [Protestant communities], given that they do not accept the theological notion of the Church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church.” - Pope Benedict XVI
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Yes, Protestants do not have the “Church”, but the DO have “churches”.
 
This might help:

Catholic 33 Jesus Christ Jerusalem

Orthodox 1054 Schismatic Catholic
Bishops Constantinople

Lutheran 1517 Martin Luther Germany

Anabaptist 1521 Nicholas Storch &
Thomas Munzer Germany

Anglican 1534 Henry VIII England

Mennonites 1536 Menno Simons Switzerland

Calvinist 1555 John Calvin Switzerland

Presbyterian 1560 John Knox Scotland

Congregational 1582 Robert Brown Holland

Baptist 1609 John Smyth Amsterdam

Dutch Reformed 1628 Michaelis Jones New York

Congregationalist 1648 Pilgrims and Puritans Massachusetts

Quakers 1649 George Fox England

Amish 1693 Jacob Amman France

Freemasons 1717 Masons from four lodges London

Methodist 1739 John & Charles
Wesley England

Unitarian 1774 Theophilus Lindey London

Methodist Episcopal 1784 60 Preachers Baltimore, MD

Episcopalian 1789 Samuel Seabury American Colonies

United Brethren 1800 Philip Otterbein &
Martin Boehn Maryland

Disciples of Christ 1827 Thomas & Alexander
Campbell Kentucky

Mormon 1830 Joseph Smith New York

Methodist Protestant 1830 Methodist United States

Church of Christ 1836 Warren Stone &
Alexander Campbell Kentucky

Seventh Day Adventist 1844 Ellen White Washington, NH

Christadelphian (Brethren
of Christ 1844 John Thomas Richmond, VA

Salvation Army 1865 William Booth London

Holiness 1867 Methodist United States

Jehovah’s Witnesses 1874 Charles Taze Russell Pennsylvania

Christian Science 1879 Mary Baker Eddy Boston

Church of God in Christ 1895 Various churches of God Arkansas

Church of Nazarene c. 1850-1900 Various religious bodies Pilot Point, TX

Pentecstal 1901 Charles F. Parkham Topeka, KS

Aglipayan 1902 Gregorio Aglipay Philippines

Assemblies of God 1914 Pentecostalism Hot Springs, AZ

Iglesia ni Christo 1914 Felix Manalo Philippines

Four-square Gospel 1917 Aimee Semple
McPherson Los Angeles, CA

United Church of Christ 1961 Reformed and
Congregationalist Philadelphia, PA

Calvary Chapel 1965 Chuck Smith Costa Mesa, CA

United Methodist 1968 Methodist and United
Brethren Dallas, TX

Born-again c. 1970s Various religious bodies United States

Harvest Christian 1972 Greg Laurie Riverside, CA

Saddleback 1982 Rick Warren California

Non-denominational c. 1990s various United States
 
Mickey said:
Orthodox (catholic) 33 Jesus Christ Jerusalem

Roman Catholic 1054 schismatic. Separated from the four other Patriarchates.

Had to make a slight correction for you on the first two. 😉
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😃
 
Zenkai said:
I was on another thread, and several Catholics kept saying Protestants and there church services are heretical. However, I’m pretty sure Protestants are not heretical.

Heretic(noun):
  1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
  2. Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
  3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.
As you can see, Protestants do not fit any of these definitions. 1. Most Protestants do not hold opinions contrary to Protestant beliefs. 2. Maybe a convert from Catholicism to Protestantism would be considered a heretic, but definitely not all Protestants. 3. Protestants conform to Protestant attitude, doctrine, and principle.

What do you think?
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scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2089.htm

Here is the Catholic definition of heresy. Some Protestants fit it, some don’t. It depends if they are truly following their conscience and are sincerely trying to follow God (who will lead them to the Catholic Church), or not.
 
Mickey said:
Orthodox (catholic) 33 Jesus Christ Jerusalem

Roman Catholic 1054 schismatic. Separated from the four other Patriarchates.

Had to make a slight correction for you on the first two. 😉
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Yeah, yeah. How about you bring that up with mardukm? 😛
 
Zenkai said:
“The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then:**** Protestant*ism***** today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”
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Because traditionally heretics denied the Trinity or the Incarnation.
 
Zenkai said:
Umm, no, it is not. How can something be heretical if it does not fit the definition of heretical? Did you even read the quote from Cardinal Ratzinger?
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You got the definition of heretical from an online source that most likely wasn’t Catholic. The CCC tends to have answers to questions about Catholicism. 😉

But technically, there are formal heretics (the kind you are thinking of), and material heretics (people of good intentions but don’t realize they are rejecting the Truth–what the Church teaches).
 
stewstew03 said:
On which doctrines do you think the Catholic Church will compromise?
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I’ll jump in and suggest clerical celibacy as one of them- largely because the CC has already done things that could easily be classified as “compromise.” Granted, priests of the Latin Rite are still forbidden from being married and having families, but in certain instances married priests are permitted to convert and remain married, and in three specific Eastern Rite examples priests are straight up allowed to marry. Have kids. Kids grow up. Maybe they decide to be a Catholic priest within that rite. They can do that- and also have a wife and kids. I would call that “compromise” in either instance, and I would think that must have some bearing on the Schism.

That’s my interjection. I’ll jump back out, but I’ll lurk and see if either of you thinks it’s an acceptable interjection of some value.
 
irbatman1 said:
I’ll jump in and suggest clerical celibacy as one of them- largely because the CC has already done things that could easily be classified as “compromise.” Granted, priests of the Latin Rite are still forbidden from being married and having families, but in certain instances married priests are permitted to convert and remain married, and in three specific Eastern Rite examples priests are straight up allowed to marry. Have kids. Kids grow up. Maybe they decide to be a Catholic priest within that rite. They can do that- and also have a wife and kids. I would call that “compromise” in either instance, and I would think that must have some bearing on the Schism.

That’s my interjection. I’ll jump back out, but I’ll lurk and see if either of you thinks it’s an acceptable interjection of some value.
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Would this not be a disciplinary compromise, as opposed to a doctrinal one?
 
Tridentinum said:
Yeah, yeah. How about you bring that up with mardukm? 😛
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LOL! He seems to have a bit of a cult following here.

We’ve been round and round many times. 😃

It usually devolves into the odd triple petrine theology that he invented. 😉

But hey…this is about the protestants…so I’ll let you you guys go at it. 👍
 
1ke said:
The Church has given direction on this.

A Catholic who leave the Church and joins a non-Catholic ecclesial community *would *be a heretic.
.
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Former heretic checking in.
:jrbirdman:
 
Zenkai said:
I was on another thread, and several Catholics kept saying Protestants and there church services are heretical. However, I’m pretty sure Protestants are not heretical.

Heretic(noun):
  1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
  2. Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
  3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.
As you can see, Protestants do not fit any of these definitions. 1. Most Protestants do not hold opinions contrary to Protestant beliefs. 2. Maybe a convert from Catholicism to Protestantism would be considered a heretic, but definitely not all Protestants. 3. Protestants conform to Protestant attitude, doctrine, and principle.

What do you think?
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Zenkai,

I’ve read through this thread. Seriously? Are we now reduced to calling each other heretics? :tsktsk:

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Zenkai,

I’ve read through this thread. Seriously? Are we now reduced to calling each other heretics? :tsktsk:

Anna
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I didn’t call anyone a heretic. I just don’t like it when fundamentalists call other Christians “heretics”.
 
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