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MarcoPolo
Guest
I read a non-Catholic Christian’s post stating that people in heaven “have no knowledge of what happens on earth as you have none of heaven now.”
What do you think?
What do you think?
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bengal_fan
Guest
i would disagree with that person. i believe they are aware and are praying. i might be in a minority view though amongst protestants, but in Revelation where the martyrs ask God how much longer… that seems to imply they have a concept of time. since God and heaven are outside of time (not bound by it), i would conclude their reference is the events happening here on earth.
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Abraxsis
Guest
I dont really think anyone here on earth knows that for sure. All we really know is that heaven is a paradise close to God that we all want to reach. Other than that the specifics of what goes on in there is a mystery.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Yeah, I didn’t get where he was coming from but thought I would give others a chance to show why they would believe that. There’s lots of Scripture to back it up. For instance, we are told in heaven we will be like angels…and there’s lots of other Scripture about angels watching over and interacting with us here, so I’m with you.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
if we have a CNN, so do they.
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BanksOfTheTiber
Guest
The common belief among Protestants is that no, those in Heaven are removed from the goings on here below. How could they not be? Seeing the suffering of loved ones on Earth would rob them of the complete joy of heaven.
But as one (or at least as a former) Protestant I see much evidence, well cited above, that this view is uninformed. Scripture doesn’t say definatively, but some pretty big hints are dropped.
But as one (or at least as a former) Protestant I see much evidence, well cited above, that this view is uninformed. Scripture doesn’t say definatively, but some pretty big hints are dropped.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Have you ever watched something like the Grammy Awards, and the winner will sometimes dedicate the winning to their loved one who had died; They often look up and say “I know your here in spirit.”
I see that all the time; I hear it in speeches at weddings and birthday parties etc…
We never tell those people, “Don’t be foolish. Your loved ones are not here.” Maybe our loved ones do know what’s going on here below.
Isn’t that the same thing as saints being aware of what’s going on down here?
I see that all the time; I hear it in speeches at weddings and birthday parties etc…
We never tell those people, “Don’t be foolish. Your loved ones are not here.” Maybe our loved ones do know what’s going on here below.
Isn’t that the same thing as saints being aware of what’s going on down here?
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Feedmysheep
Guest
I wonder how they reconcile Jesus with that philosophy. I mean, Jesus is in Heaven, right? Then does that mean our sins on Earth don’t wound Our Lord? Go figure.
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justasking4
Guest
The reason the saints can’t hear you are numerous but let me give you a passage from I Thess 4 in which Paul describes the state of those who have died in Christ:
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Notice that Paul uses the word “sleep” to describe the condition of those who have died. We all know that when a person is asleep he is totally oblivious to the outside world. I’m referring to the deep sleep kind where you have no conscious awareness of the outside world. So it is in death.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Notice that Paul uses the word “sleep” to describe the condition of those who have died. We all know that when a person is asleep he is totally oblivious to the outside world. I’m referring to the deep sleep kind where you have no conscious awareness of the outside world. So it is in death.
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Katie1723
Guest
Well if they are aware, then my father is none too happy at the Yankees loss yesterday.
Kathy
Kathy
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Tweety
Guest
My personal belief and experience tells me that yes, people in heaven can be aware of what happens on earth.
My mother thinks no… I think yes…
Hopefully we will find out for ourselves one day!
My mother thinks no… I think yes…
Hopefully we will find out for ourselves one day!
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onenow1
Guest
Hi,
Matthew 22:
31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.
Also. Rev.6:10- 11 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Then there’s the transfiguration. Mark 9; 2-9.
Peace, OneNow1
Matthew 22:
31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.
Also. Rev.6:10- 11 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Then there’s the transfiguration. Mark 9; 2-9.
Peace, OneNow1
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historyb
Guest
Well my opinion and http://www.v-rodforums.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif is that God can allow the people there to be, but generally they aren’t. http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1535/2centsfinalci9.gif
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Actually fallen asleep is a term that just means the person died. It gives no indication of their after-life condition, which we have already established in this thread includes an awareness of activity on earth.
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Zooey
Guest
Of course, they know, & are praying for us.
Why would they suddenly become, well,
stupid?? What kind of a Heaven would that possibly be??
The saints in Heaven are praying for us, day & night, before the throne of God.
Why would they suddenly become, well,
stupid?? What kind of a Heaven would that possibly be??The saints in Heaven are praying for us, day & night, before the throne of God.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
I think it was Isaiah who describes heaven as a land afar off. I don’t think that those in heaven have direct knowledge of what occurs on earth. Some will quote Eccl 9, about the dead having no knowledge about what is going on “under the sun”. However, those in heaven must have indirect knowledge of what is going on on earth by 1) people who have recently died can share what they know with those where they go. 2) angels make daily trips to heaven, so side trips are possible. 3) angels who have just came from a revival on earth do make announcements of those who recently coverted, repented. Hebrews 12:1-3 when divorced from its context of Hebrews 11 can be misread to mean that those in heaven can see us on earth. Do you really want people looking in on you while you are making love to your wives?
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
You are reading your view into the text. The mytars in Rev 6 are very immature there. And, are going from their personal memory of what happened to them on earth. **They are immature **because they are calling out for REVENGE rather than praying for them that murdered them on earth. Jesus give us the proper MATURE example, asking God the father to forgive those who where putting him to death.
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and **pray for them which **despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, **“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” **And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
Jesus teaches us to forgive those whom mytar us ( yes, that is the meaning of persecute ), Jesus gave us the mature example of forgiving those who where putting him to death on the cross, and those in Rev 6 are doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught, and demonstrated.
Those in Rev 6, were recently killed for their beliefs. They are going via their personal memories, and as immature christians they are calling for revenge, which is directly contray to being Christ like.
So, your proof text falls flat.
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VociMike
Guest
My question to them is, does that mean that God does not have complete joy in heaven? For he certainly does see the suffering of each and every one of us on earth.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Ecclesiastes 9:6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
this text plainly teaches that those who have passed on, have no part, direct knowledge of what is being done “under the sun”.
Isaiah 33:17 (King James Version)
Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.
from the context, that land which is “very far off” is heaven. The very point of saying a land is very far off is to demonstrate that those on in one city do not have direct knowledge of what is going on in that land “very far off”
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=land+far+&qs_version=9
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
right you are twisting the scriptures. The only way we will be like angels, is not being married, the text does not say, nor imply that we will be angels. That is simply twisting the scriptures like silly putty.
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