protestants beating catholics?

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I can’t really comment on the Protestants–as I feel I am ignorant about much of what they teach and how exactly they differ from the Catholic Church.

HOWEVER…I have to say I have been very saddened in recent months with the number of conversations I have had with fellow Catholics who feel they are being driven out of our Church by some of the very absolute positions with respect to challenges to our very imperfect human natures like marriage, divorce, remarriage, infertility, contraception, homosexuality, etc. People are examining their lives and the people in them, their struggles with life issues and faith, and don’t come up with the same conclusion the Church does–namely that because these these loved ones (or themselves) fall short of a moral ideal, they are evil, living lives of mortal sin, are condemned to hell without confession/conversion, etc. Many feel they are incapable of meeting the Church’s many very high standards of discipline, self-control and are frankly exhausted with being reminded of their failures instead of encouraged in the struggle.
 
Its because of strong prominant leaders such as Pat Robertson, Jack Chick and Duane Gish.
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You catholics should learn a lesson from these great men and turn away from your archaic, monolithic and WRONG leader you call a pope
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May God remove the ignorance from your eyes my brothers <3
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You should have that tongue in your cheek checked out 😛
 
I’ve been raised Protestant and I can tell you what at least from my stand point Protestants view the Catholic Church as.

They view it as an institution, like a government, not a church.

They see corruption, power, control, the crusades, killing, the dark ages etc.

They think joining the Church is like going from the light into the darkness, going back to the dark ages where every is expected to be a zombie.

The biggest problem isn’t Mary, The Pope, Sacraments, or any of that.

It’s the concept of Mortal Sin, the idea that you are not saved and you have to work to be saved.

They think it takes ALL of the focus off of what Jesus did and puts it on what they do for themselves.

They think it’s like putting on a pair of shackles and handcuffs and walking around all day is misery and fear.

And when they look at their own Church they see pure joy and excitement and freedom and a personal loving relationship with God.

I have nothing against Catholic, in fact I’m probably going to convert that’s just the viewpoint I used to have on the Church, and what I think most Protestants have.
 
Island_Oak said:
I can’t really comment on the Protestants–as I feel I am ignorant about much of what they teach and how exactly they differ from the Catholic Church.

HOWEVER…I have to say I have been very saddened in recent months with the number of conversations I have had with fellow Catholics who feel they are being driven out of our Church by some of the very absolute positions with respect to challenges to our very imperfect human natures like marriage, divorce, remarriage, infertility, contraception, homosexuality, etc. People are examining their lives and the people in them, their struggles with life issues and faith, and don’t come up with the same conclusion the Church does–namely that because these these loved ones (or themselves) fall short of a moral ideal, they are evil, living lives of mortal sin, are condemned to hell without confession/conversion, etc. Many feel they are incapable of meeting the Church’s many very high standards of discipline, self-control and are frankly exhausted with being reminded of their failures instead of encouraged in the struggle.
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That’s not the message we are getting in our parish. I’ve struggled with things and all I do is go to the priest and confess and receive absolution. The yoke is pretty easy. If you want to see a church where they make you feel guilty become a Mormon like I used to be. The Catholic faith asks us to keep some pretty basic stuff and if we fail we can be forgiven if we have even the smallest amount of humility. Christ’s call is to become perfect and he’s shown us the way and gives us help through the confessional. Instead of feeling a need to rebel against it, work with it and become free! Why shouldn’t a Christian be called to live a high standard?
 
The problem is at home and in school people are taught that the Catholic church is 100% incorrect and very strict and cold and unloving.

Plus everything else and you can get the idea.

The view is distorted.

It’s not so much being held to a high standard I don’t think.

Because I have a lot of family who are increadibly dedicated and strict regarding any form of immorality etc.

The idea that they can lose their salvation by sinning once is a little out there to them though.
 
christianley said:
That’s not the message we are getting in our parish. I’ve struggled with things and all I do is go to the priest and confess and receive absolution. The yoke is pretty easy. If you want to see a church where they make you feel guilty become a Mormon like I used to be. The Catholic faith asks us to keep some pretty basic stuff and if we fail we can be forgiven if we have even the smallest amount of humility. Christ’s call is to become perfect and he’s shown us the way and gives us help through the confessional. Instead of feeling a need to rebel against it, work with it and become free! Why shouldn’t a Christian be called to live a high standard?
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I don’t make the news…just report what I’m hearing, seeing anecdotally. I’m neither justifying nor defending this position…just observing that a significant number of life-long Catholics are not feeling they are getting their spiritual needs met and are leaving. The question to me is not what is wrong with these folks, but how can we make the Church stronger and perhaps more responsive–not necessarily change its moral code and win a popularity contest with the Protestants.
 
Before I converted to the Catholic Faith I was a member of the Pentecostal Church. For whatever the reason I felt God called me to serve Him as a Catholic. It took me about 3 years before I received the blessing which finally got me over the hurdle of Communion literally being the body & blood of Jesus. I too believe many protestants have a strong gift of the Holy Spirit, in fact I know they do. What I can’t seem to grasp is why they don’t accept the truth about Holy Communion? It’s really very obvious what Christ is saying. To answer my own question I believe it’s simply a matter of seperation in that if protestants truly believed in this matter, which is the truth, they would be giving some homage to the Catholic Church.
 
After responding to a post about “Protestants beating Catholics” in terms of numbers of church growth and conviction of the Holy Spirit, I just had to post the following:

I’m a former protestant, from the Pentecostal Church, in Cincinnati, where the focus of doing God’s will was to nuture and follow the Holy Spirit. I was very happy there, but after 2 or 3 years God was calling me to the Catholic Church which I and my Pentecostal friends thought was strange if not sinful. To make a rather long story short I converted after about 3 years. Now I’m a firm Catholic who still loves his protestant friends and roots. It took me quite a while basically 3 years to receive the blessing which changed my view on Holy Communion and the Eucharist as being the literal body and blood of Jesus - after this I converted. Whether or not protestants and especially fundamental churches believe it the Catholic Church teaches the same - develop your relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church does have more of the truth than any other Christian faith especially when it comes to The Eucharist. So why then, assuming the Eucharist is the literal body & blood of Jesus is it so hard for leaders of the protestant church to realize what they are missing. The truth of the matter is they don’t care! Many protestants especially Pentecostals are big on studying scripture, and as far as I can tell it’s pretty black and white what Jesus says about Communion! The Eucharist is a great gift from Jesus and when you don’t believe in it, you’re simply missing a great gift and blessing from God Himself. Some Catholics that I know who have left the Catholic Church and joined a Protestant Church say that’s one thing they miss the most about the Catholic Faith - being touched by Jesus every Sunday! SO IF YOU’RE PROTESTANT AND YOU STUDY SCRIPTURE AND YOU THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME TRUTHE TO THE TRUTH - TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER!
 
stevers said:
The Eucharist is a great gift from Jesus and when you don’t believe in it, you’re simply missing a great gift and blessing from God Himself.
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What protestant church doesn’t believe in taking communion?
 
JohnWilliams said:
What protestant church doesn’t believe in taking communion?
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Your communion is just a symbol of christ. We as Catholics can receive it every day, not just Sunday. I believe you receive it once a month?
The priest is the only one who can change the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The Real Presence. I can’t figure out why Protestants can’t figure this out when it is in fact in The Bible.
 
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0005chap.asp

If one were to prefer religion based on long-term, sustained growth, the Catholic Church would be the one to prefer. With almost 2,000 years of growth, the Church today is larger than it has ever been before, with over a billion members. More than half of all Christians are Catholics and more than one in six human beings is a Catholic. And the number is rising.

For example, in 1997—the most recent year for which global statistics are currently available—the Church had an overall increase in membership of over ten million, only a little more than half of which can be accounted for by baptisms under the age of seven, and an increase in spite of the loss of members due to death and defection.

And the Catholic Church is growing not only in the world at large but in America in particular. **In 1998—the most recent year for which national statistics are available—the U.S. Catholic population had an overall increase of 455,000, including 162,000 conversions to the Catholic Church **(i.e., cases of people joining other than baptisms of those below the age of seven).

It may be important to point this out to those who commit the “fastest-growing” fallacy and wish to represent the Catholic Church as stagnant or declining in membership. It is especially valuable to know the number of adult conversions per year, since an anti-Catholic might attempt to dismiss American Church growth as due only to infant baptisms or immigration.

Needless to say, the Catholic growth rates in both the United States and the world dwarf what any other church is doing. Nobody else in the world gets an net increase of ten million people in a year, and nobody else in America gets a net increase of half a million people in a year. And remember that these represent net increases in membership—after deaths and defections have been factored in—so the actual number of converts is significantly higher.

Even if we look at just U.S. membership growth without infant baptism, nobody else in America gets 162,000 new non-infant members in a year, nor does any other American church have an overall increase of half a million members a year. When you really look at the numbers, the picture that those who commit the “fastest-growing” fallacy often wish to paint of a stagnant, declining Catholic Church simply won’t hold up.

Ultimately though, as we said at the beginning, membership affiliation is to be determined by truth, not popularity or growth. And in the truth category the Catholic Church wins hands down.
 
The Holy Spirit does not lead people into error. We shouldn’t be troubled by what various Protestant sects do. Some of these quickly growing churches spring up for a while, and then they are abandoned later.

Even when we speak of “protestants” we’re talking about a diverse collection of beliefs, and people who are left completely on their own to figure out true doctrine from false. They reach a point where doctrine barely matters. People will say, “it’s my relationship with Jesus that counts” – but without a solid foundation that will not survive. When people wake up to the flimsy nature of Bible-only churches they usually have only two paths – unbelief, or the Catholic Faith.

No, protestants are not beating catholics. Far from it. They try to live as Christians with the limited resources they have. They work hard at what they do. They have a valid baptism, and God grants them blessings in some ways. But they’re in deep error, and very often even their best efforts cause spiritual damage to themselves and others. They’ve fragmented the Christian Faith and it is easy to see where they have grasped false concepts – which even unbelievers can see.

When I look at protestant sects I only feel sad. I admire some of what they do, but I see that they’re not yet capable of seeing the fullness of Faith. So instead, they stay aloof even from each other, and very often, they harbor a deep animosity to Catholic Truth (we can be sure also that Our Lord cannot be pleased with the negative and harsh beliefs they have against the Blessed Virgin).

I can see nothing to be envious about with them. I wouldn’t care if the whole world wanted to be Evangelical. It’s like Moslems – they may be extremely popular, but that means nothing in terms of whether Mohammed was a true prophet.
 
Island_Oak said:
I don’t make the news…just report what I’m hearing, seeing anecdotally. I’m neither justifying nor defending this position…just observing that a significant number of life-long Catholics are not feeling they are getting their spiritual needs met and are leaving. The question to me is not what is wrong with these folks, but how can we make the Church stronger and perhaps more responsive–not necessarily change its moral code and win a popularity contest with the Protestants.
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I find this extremely sad. The Confessional remains open every week. But the same people who complain that the Church doesn’t listen to them, won’t bother to bring themselves to the Sacrament of Healing – where they get true encouragement from Christ Himself. Instead, (and I hate to sound this way) they want to continue in sin. I could understand it if people were falling down and getting back up again. But you’re not talking about that. You’re talking about people who refuse to submit to Christ and His Church. It’s that simple.

From my world, the Church has been absolutely crowded with those types. Our priests wouldn’t dare correct them. They felt they did enough by showing up for Mass each week. That was enough of a sacrifice and everybody should just praise them for the effort.

But now, thankfully, our priests (with the great example of our Holy Father) are showing the path that they’re on. If it wasn’t a matter of salvation of their souls, then they’d have a point. It would be nit-picking and harrassing for no reason. But our priests and faithful have (finally) realized that people are losing their souls. Week after week after dreadful week of sacrilegous Communions – piling mortal sin on mortal sin. Never going to Confession, but being absolutely puffed up with pride and egoism to think that they’re “good Catholics” – that is a horrible situation that has poisoned the Church for decades.

I think these complainers should stop and think about people who convert to Catholicism, going against tremendous odds. They embrace the Church – all of it. They don’t say “I’ll convert for the doctrines that I like, but I won’t accept the rest”. It’s a total committment – I’ve seen it many times.

Would I be happy if lax and liberalized Catholics left the Church because they finally realized that God is serious about violations of the moral law? No, not at all.

But if it means really coming to grips, honestly, with the self-deception that one has been harboring, or the deep-down denial that the Catholic Church is the True Church as given to us by Christ Himself – then it would be far, far better if they left and stopped deceiving themselves and others.

For any person struggling to live on the right path – there is much mercy and support. But for those who deny that the moral norms of the Church are valid – how can they receive mercy when they don’t believe they’ve done anything wrong?
 
bella5110 said:
Your communion is just a symbol of christ. We as Catholics can receive it every day, not just Sunday. I believe you receive it once a month?
The priest is the only one who can change the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The Real Presence…
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I believe that “The Real Presence” is in me. I am God’s temple. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit.
bella5110 said:
I can’t figure out why Protestants can’t figure this out when it is in fact in The Bible.
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I thought your premise was that protestants “didn’t believe in” communion, but in fact they do. And your defense of your suggestion seemed to break down to your opinion that it wasn’t taken often enough. I believe in taking communion.
 
christianley said:
That’s not the message we are getting in our parish. I’ve struggled with things and all I do is go to the priest and confess and receive absolution. The yoke is pretty easy. If you want to see a church where they make you feel guilty become a Mormon like I used to be. The Catholic faith asks us to keep some pretty basic stuff and if we fail we can be forgiven if we have even the smallest amount of humility. Christ’s call is to become perfect and he’s shown us the way and gives us help through the confessional. Instead of feeling a need to rebel against it, work with it and become free! Why shouldn’t a Christian be called to live a high standard?
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That was an excellent reply – thank you!

The standard is high – but people think it is impossible because the standards of society are so incredibly low.
 
JohnWilliams said:
I believe that “The Real Presence” is in me. I am God’s temple. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Your premise was that protestants “didn’t believe in” communion, but in fact they do. And your defense of your suggestion seemed to break down to your opinion that it wasn’t taken often enough. I believe in taking communion.
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I am simply saying that Protestants do not believe in The Real Presence, that christ is actually right there, His Real Body and Blood, not just a symbol. Like I said, we receive communion every day. you don’t.
 
The statement that “Protestants don’t believe in Communion” was intended to mean that “Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist”.

As it was said, for Protestants, Communion is a symbolic action. Certainly, not much faith is required to “believe that Communion is a symbol”. It’s a relatively unessential belief within Protestantism as well. What could someone say “I don’t believe that Communion is a symbol”?
 
reggieM said:
The statement that “Protestants don’t believe in Communion” was intended to mean that “Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist”.

As it was said, for Protestants, Communion is a symbolic action. Certainly, not much faith is required to “believe that Communion is a symbol”. It’s a relatively unessential belief within Protestantism as well.
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Protestantism is not a single denomination. It’s a shame you would presume to speak for all.
reggieM said:
What could someone say “I don’t believe that Communion is a symbol”?
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Suffice it to say that sometimes I am tempted to judge things by the fruit.

This was one the biggest bones of contention of the Reformation.
On one had you had guys that were burning at the stake for the courage of their convictions (many that were former Catholic Priests), and on the other, the guys that were piling the kindling under them and lighting the fires. biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm
 
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