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Catherine_S
Guest
I do!
Trying to blow out the candle of another does not make his burn any brighter.
This is the behavior of a person who deep down feels threatened, is insecure and lacks wisdom.
The kind of wisdom that** the** Holy Spirit bestows on his people.
He does this to convince himself!
At least he has a copy of CCC and this is GOOD.
.
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happygal
Guest
Not all protestant believes there isn’t a real presence during our communion, of course Catholic can say protestant does not have the real presence…that is a little meaning in your statement…
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
God converts - not man
It isn’t. The Church is very much in favour of it, to judge by a document that was published in 1993. There are limits to the extent to which Catholics are able to take part in the services of non-Catholics, which depend partly on what the CC allows & partly on what those others allow - but participation as such is certainly not a sin as such: see [PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html)
1. Isn’t God free to work in & through whomever He wishes 
?
He is the Church’s LORD - not its lapdog; it doesn’t have Him on a lead. He “is greater than our hearts”, which is just as well; otherwise, His Heart could never transform ours.2. Surely if people love God, that is something for which we cannot be too grateful: whether they be Catholic or no. It is a reason for joy, gratitude, prayer for them to increase in grace - not for annoyance.
Their prayers may help our increase in grace, even though they & we don’t know this. We are meant to help build up each other: our prayers for them, like theirs for us, can help this to happen. We & they do not need to be in visible communion for this, as God is not limited by the means of grace He gives - we are.3. “The Spirit of God blows where it Wills” - some Protestants can’t believe Catholics can be Christians, some Catholics have the same problem in believing that Protestants can be. Christians of various kinds often deny that anyone not in their “gang” can be a Christian; that’s human nature. Sad to say.
ISTM the Church, far from being superior, should be “the servant of all”. Jesus Christ was not above humbling Himself to serve His disciples, although He was their Master & Lord; so neither we, nor His Church as a whole, has any business to behave otherwise.
This bit of Numbers 11 seems relevant:
blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Num&chapter=11&translation=rsv&x=8&y=9
- Num 11:27 …And a young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.”
- Num 11:28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the minister of Moses, one of his chosen men, said, “My lord Moses, forbid them.”
- Num 11:29 But Moses said to him, “Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD’s people were prophets, that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!”
And just after the Transfiguration:
Mar 9:34 But they were silent; for on the way they had discussed with one another who was the greatest.
Mar 9:35 And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, “If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all.”
Mar 9:36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them,
Mar 9:37 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.”
Mar 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.”
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is for us.
Mar 9:41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.
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AlegreFe
Guest
Why would that worry you?
I would worry more about the Catholics right here in the Church that have no “Holy Spirit” as you say these people have. Some Catholics are so “dead” and unaware of what is going on in their own Church.I think if you want us Catholics to get revived, then maybe you could start a group or something.
I don’t know… talk to your Parish priests and see if you can start a prayer group or bible study.Before wanting to win souls from without we should think of saving souls from within our own “walls.” That way there will be even more “crumbs on the floor” for the non-Catholics to be able to eat because of the “bread on the table” that we have.
I’m still praying for my “fallen away Catholic” brother who has been a Protestant for many years now. I know that I can do nothing but pray for him because he is living in the dark and has his own personal issues that I want him to get over.
Only God can convert souls to His heart. So I pray to the Holy Spirit for fallen-away Catholics and for Catholics alike.
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bella5110
Guest
Read post #37
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Melanie01
Guest
Nonsense, what do you mean by spiritual, there is a guy on the Baptist Board who can cite page and verse of the Bible but is the most twisted of personalities in his hatred ( hardly a christian trait).
My church has some wonderful folk who are very spiritual, they are not wealthy, quiet and folk who mostly would be overlooked in a group…these quiet doers and lovers of God are saintly folk and I am priveledged to have met them.
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manualman
Guest
I have some experience with this brand of christianity. In college, I spent 4 years studying with the Navigators, a protestant/evangelical college outreach rooted in Calvinistic theology and having mostly similar beliefs to the Calvary Chapel.
This brand of christianity is very simple and appealing. It contains much of the catholic faith, but contains the usual problems of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
My observation of groups like this has been they are very much like the vast crowds of people that gathered around Jesus to hear him preach and see the miracles. They loved him and were drawn to the joy he exuded and could sense his divinity. This is the Jesus that is preached in these churches. The one who appeals to all, loves all, proclaims hope for all.
The problem is that the tough challenging Jesus has been muzzled to a large extent. The Jesus that watched many of his followers walk away after hearing him say “unless you eat of my body and drink my blood you shall have no life within you” (paraphrase from memory) is not to be found in such places. They produce mass quanitities of enthusiastic converts. But notice how few of them have been there for 20 years. For MANY, the enthusiasm burns off and the sacraments are not there to sustain them. 5-8 years later, many of them are gone.
Furthermore, you need to realize a basic difference between catholicism and protestantism. Protestants start a new church every time an old one starts to feel stale. So while on-fire catholics in a certain city might be spread out amonst 50 parishes, on-fire evangelicals concentrate in a 4-5, having left the other 45 where they weren’t ‘being fed.’
Enthusiasm is an attractive thing. But it doesn’t last. Lifelong faith requires staying power. Prayer, discipline and the sacraments are needed for it. Some protestants do an admirable job surviving on just the first 2. Very impressive. I lack the discipline and would likely be a lukewarm soul spit from Jesus’ mouth without the sacraments to keep me going.
There is an old saying that says that protestantism make large numbers of converts. Catholicism makes a few saints. Truer today than in generations.
This brand of christianity is very simple and appealing. It contains much of the catholic faith, but contains the usual problems of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
My observation of groups like this has been they are very much like the vast crowds of people that gathered around Jesus to hear him preach and see the miracles. They loved him and were drawn to the joy he exuded and could sense his divinity. This is the Jesus that is preached in these churches. The one who appeals to all, loves all, proclaims hope for all.
The problem is that the tough challenging Jesus has been muzzled to a large extent. The Jesus that watched many of his followers walk away after hearing him say “unless you eat of my body and drink my blood you shall have no life within you” (paraphrase from memory) is not to be found in such places. They produce mass quanitities of enthusiastic converts. But notice how few of them have been there for 20 years. For MANY, the enthusiasm burns off and the sacraments are not there to sustain them. 5-8 years later, many of them are gone.
Furthermore, you need to realize a basic difference between catholicism and protestantism. Protestants start a new church every time an old one starts to feel stale. So while on-fire catholics in a certain city might be spread out amonst 50 parishes, on-fire evangelicals concentrate in a 4-5, having left the other 45 where they weren’t ‘being fed.’
Enthusiasm is an attractive thing. But it doesn’t last. Lifelong faith requires staying power. Prayer, discipline and the sacraments are needed for it. Some protestants do an admirable job surviving on just the first 2. Very impressive. I lack the discipline and would likely be a lukewarm soul spit from Jesus’ mouth without the sacraments to keep me going.
There is an old saying that says that protestantism make large numbers of converts. Catholicism makes a few saints. Truer today than in generations.
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JohnWilliams
Guest
If you are referring to the Calvary Chapel, for example Costa Mesa/Ft. Lauderdale, and the hundreds of affiliates around the world, while each is offered considerable latitude, I believe the doctrine (not dogma) held by Ft. Lauderdale is fairly characteristic and perhaps not too close to Calvinist.
“In a broad general sense, Calvary Chapel is the middle ground between fundamentalism and Pentecostalism” calvaryftl.org/aboutus/the-balance.cfm
You will notice that my original post re Calvary Chapel closed with indicating God had raised up this Church in the mighty fashion that He did “in spite of futurist eschatology”.
In regard to Calvary Chapel I simply wrote about what IS. Indeed, at one point early on, Pastor Bob hoped his church wouldn’t grow any bigger than 250, which he at that point viewed as a perfect size. But the Lord had other plans.
I do not personally think large Churches are necessarily a good thing. At Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale it does allow for 80 ministries, and some real efficiencies when we send busloads of parishoners and semi-trucks full of materials and generators, etc., up to help rebuild hurricane ravaged houses in Mississippi, etc., but in terms of doctrine, in general, it would seem that the larger the Church becomes, the more prone to nicolaitanism it is, and the less prone to follow the Lord’s lead in terms of being able to adjust doctrine, as the Lord leads.
The entirety of the Church today, orthodox and protestant, seems to be lost in a doctrinal fog. It is interesting to note that ALL Christians understand that Old Testament First Coming prophecy, was fulfilled steadily, throughout that age, up until Christ’s coming.
Yet when it comes to the Church view of Old and New Testament Second Coming prophecies, being fulfilled steadily as the Christian era has advanced, this view is virtually non-existent in the Church. This was, however, the view of the Reformers, who sprang out of the dead formalism that the Church had become.
While the Protestantism of the 20th century bears little resemblence to that of the reformers, the Holy Spirit is alive and vibrant in many evangelical Churches. In terms of eschatology I believe the Protestant Church is waking up to the truth of God’s Holy Word.
But then the view in the other direction might seem that much of orthodoxy looks like dead formalism.
One of the traits of Catholics I increasingly observe in this forum appears to be Catholic jealousy of Protestant excitement for the Lord, as your post seems to punctuate.
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manualman
Guest
Jealous? Maybe, but if so its just immaturity on my part.
Sure I’d love to have parish mass be like those masses I experienced in training for NET Ministries (traveling youth ministry). Similarly Navigator praise and worship sessions in college were joyous experiences.
But I’m not willing to pay the price evangelicals pay to get there (abandoning the sacraments and abandoning 45 parishes to get 5 rockin’ ones).
Y’all surely have mastered the art of praying in song. Modern Catholics ought to learn from that. But what you perceive as ‘dead formalism’ is in fact the discipline in prayer and devotion that sustains you when the initial zeal and enthusiasm burn off.
Since you seem to be from this genre, how long ago did you ‘get saved?’
P.S.
My experience with folks from Calvary Chapel is far away from Florida and perhaps not representative. I consider anybody with a penchant for ‘predestination’ defined the way Calvin did as his descendent. Perhaps I am too broad with that.
Sure I’d love to have parish mass be like those masses I experienced in training for NET Ministries (traveling youth ministry). Similarly Navigator praise and worship sessions in college were joyous experiences.
But I’m not willing to pay the price evangelicals pay to get there (abandoning the sacraments and abandoning 45 parishes to get 5 rockin’ ones).
Y’all surely have mastered the art of praying in song. Modern Catholics ought to learn from that. But what you perceive as ‘dead formalism’ is in fact the discipline in prayer and devotion that sustains you when the initial zeal and enthusiasm burn off.
Since you seem to be from this genre, how long ago did you ‘get saved?’
P.S.
My experience with folks from Calvary Chapel is far away from Florida and perhaps not representative. I consider anybody with a penchant for ‘predestination’ defined the way Calvin did as his descendent. Perhaps I am too broad with that.
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