Protestants, can a Catholic Priest forgive sins?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus instituted the Sacrament of reconciliation and commanded his apostles to forgive sins.

The Catholic priest in himself cannot forgive sins, in his Priestly office through the sacrament, he is in Persona Christi. “where two or more are gathered in my name there I AM”.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets. The ministry of reconciliation did not have just anyone excercising this ministry it required a Priest, sacrifice, atonement, and auricular confession.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever more.

The priestly office that Jesus builds upon believers is according to the order of Melchizedeck, to offer sacrifice in his body and blood in form of bread and wine, which only the family of the high priest (Jesus Christ) are able to consume, and spiritual offerings. Not to listen to confession. Only those we have personally offended and forgive those who offended us.

Peace

 

[rolltidefan]

Short answer please - why do you think Jesus told the Apostles, “Whose sin you forgive, they are forgiven…” ? If it was OK to confess to another person surely there Jesus would have said nothing or just to people at large to do this?

Well, I don’t really have a short answer!! lol I personally believe as I said before in earlier post that if that is the way you do things, then you need to continue on doing that. Just as I know that I approach God directly and my sins are forgiven. Nothing wrong with either. As far as directly being able to give an answer, I don’t have one, other than what has already been spoke here by other protestants and I see no need in to keep bringing that point up over and over again. I believe it wouldn’t matter what I said or even what you said, we all believe what we have been taught and that is really the bottom line for all of us. We are willing to stand for what we believe. Some of us are just more tolerant than others. I believe that one day, we will ALL, Catholics and protestants will stand before God and we will either get the answers then or we will be in such glory that we will not care. The bottom line is, keep doing what you believe and I believe you will be rewarded. Just as I believe what I am doing is truth. We will both end up in the same place.

Wow, that’s like a quadruple negative!

lol…Glad you caught that!!! I get so strung up in my words, I sometimes don’t take the time to read back over them. Thank You though Peter. It has been a blessing to read your post on here. You seem like a great man of God.

 

[Ginger2]

I think pretty much every denomination engages in the because-I-say-so form of argument, at least on occasion.

For example, with regard to Sola Scriptura, I can never seem to get much more than “because I say so” from any Protestant. (Not to open another cans of worms or anything. )

That’s because Catholics and Protestant use two different definitions.

You just can hold acoherent conversation if both parties are talking about two different things.

 

[Cinette]

Rolltidefan!

Well, I don’t really have a short answer!! lol* I personally believe* as I said before in earlier post that if that is the way you do things, then you need to continue on doing that. Just as I know that I approach God directly and my sins are forgiven. Nothing wrong with either. As far as directly being able to give an answer, I don’t have one, other than what has already been spoke here by other protestants and I see no need in to keep bringing that point up over and over again. I believe it wouldn’t matter what I said or even what you said, we all believe what we have been taught and that is really the bottom line for all of us. We are willing to stand for what we believe. Some of us are just more tolerant than others. I believe that one day, we will ALL, Catholics and protestants will stand before God and we will either get the answers then or we will be in such glory that we will not care. The bottom line is, keep doing what you believe and I believe you will be rewarded. Just as I believe what I am doing is truth. We will both end up in the same place.

You have not answered my question but no matter.

As I see it, the difference between us is that in my view you regard Faith as a matter of opinion. “I personally believe…” etc

My question was to hear your interpretation of Jesus’ instruction to the Apostles to forgive and retain sins. You did not provide me with the answer.

 

[Peter_J]

lol…Glad you caught that!!! I get so strung up in my words, I sometimes don’t take the time to read back over them. Thank You though Peter. It has been a blessing to read your post on here. You seem like a great man of God.

Why thank you, rolltidefan.

I’ve been impressed by what I’ve read from you thus far, and I hope you’ll stick around for a long time to come.

 

[rolltidefan]

Rolltidefan!

Well, I don’t really have a short answer!! lol* I personally believe* as I said before in earlier post that if that is the way you do things, then you need to continue on doing that. Just as I know that I approach God directly and my sins are forgiven. Nothing wrong with either. As far as directly being able to give an answer, I don’t have one, other than what has already been spoke here by other protestants and I see no need in to keep bringing that point up over and over again. I believe it wouldn’t matter what I said or even what you said, we all believe what we have been taught and that is really the bottom line for all of us. We are willing to stand for what we believe. Some of us are just more tolerant than others. I believe that one day, we will ALL, Catholics and protestants will stand before God and we will either get the answers then or we will be in such glory that we will not care. The bottom line is, keep doing what you believe and I believe you will be rewarded. Just as I believe what I am doing is truth. We will both end up in the same place.

You have not answered my question but no matter.

As I see it, the difference between us is that in my view you regard Faith as a matter of opinion. “I personally believe…” etc

My question was to hear your interpretation of Jesus’ instruction to the Apostles to forgive and retain sins. You did not provide me with the answer.

As I said before, the reason your question was not answered was because it has already been started several times on here for the reasoning of why we believe what we believe on that particular scripture. And I think you are very wrong with your statement about me viewing my faith as a matter of opinion. I walk by my faith by what God and by the Holy Spirit has directed. There are things that I personally believe. There are so many things that even Catholics and Catholics or prostestants and protestants fight about…So it just goes to prove no matter what I put on here, you would come behind searching for something else. I say one of my reasons why I believe going directly to God is because in Luke 5:21, it says…Then the scribes and Pharisees began to ask themselves, Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who but God alone can forgive sins. There are few more on here that are mentioned. Bottom line, I know where I stand with good God and yes that is a matter of my opinion, but opinion is not my religion. As far as interpretation goes, that is just it interpretations that may or may not be the truth by the time they passed down so many years. I am one of those people at this point, I feel so good spiritully with where I am at, I could shout from the rooftop!!! And nothing on this website or outside this place could make me question my walk with my God. I just feel like this is something that has been gone over and over and over on this site. I said to read the other posts that the protestants posted and that is what we believe. But to go back and write all that down would be an alnighter! And in the end, Do YOU really want to know what I know and think?? Or is it just for good debate??

 

[Cinette]

As I said before, the reason your question was not answered was because it has already been started several times on here for the reasoning of why we believe what we believe on that particular scripture. And I think you are very wrong with your statement about me viewing my faith as a matter of opinion. I walk by my faith by what God and by the Holy Spirit has directed. There are things that I personally believe. There are so many things that even Catholics and Catholics or prostestants and protestants fight about…So it just goes to prove no matter what I put on here, you would come behind searching for something else. I say one of my reasons why I believe going directly to God is because in Luke 5:21, it says…Then the scribes and Pharisees began to ask themselves, Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who but God alone can forgive sins. There are few more on here that are mentioned. Bottom line, I know where I stand with good God and yes that is a matter of my opinion, but opinion is not my religion. As far as interpretation goes, that is just it interpretations that may or may not be the truth by the time they passed down so many years. I am one of those people at this point, I feel so good spiritully with where I am at, I could shout from the rooftop!!! And nothing on this website or outside this place could make me question my walk with my God. I just feel like this is something that has been gone over and over and over on this site. I said to read the other posts that the protestants posted and that is what we believe. But to go back and write all that down would be an alnighter! And in the end, Do YOU really want to know what I know and think?? Or is it just for good debate??

Yes and Yes - yes I do want to know what you think and yes it is for a good debate.

I used to smoke and about 20 years ago I stopped BOOM! just like that! I think that we ex-smokers are the most intolerant of smokers!! I am a revert to the Church and the more I learn the more I realise that there is no compromise when it comes to faith. Both my husband and I have become more and more orthodox in our stand. Yet socially/politically we remain left leaning!

Having said that I understand your position and there have been times in your postings when I had to go to check your profile because I was sure you were Protestant and yet you said things very Catholic.

Rolli - I do appreciate you so lets leave it at that.

Cheers and God bless
Cinette

 

[Ginger2]

…If so, what do you understand verse 23 to mean?

… you are focusing on one verse to support what you already believe. Below are some points to consider:…
Cinette;4479504:

Your interpretation is as clear as MUD! …

I didn’t give an interpretation either, Cinette. I did talk about some of the things needed to consider and agree with Catholics that this particular gift was only given to the Apostles.

And I asked what you thought I said it meant but you never responded.

This thread is going nowhere and I would like to know what you thought I said it meant before it closes or I depart.

BTW, The reason I don’t ever interpret those verses is because I would be guessing. So all I say about them is that the meaning must not contradict any other Scriptures or it is not the true meaning.

 

[Peter_J]

I am one of those people at this point, I feel so good spiritully with where I am at, I could shout from the rooftop!!! And nothing on this website or outside this place could make me question my walk with my God.

And I respect you for it.

To be perfectly honest, sometimes I think that on this website, we (Catholics) put too much pressure on you (Protestants) to be ecumenical and/or irenical.

 

[Cinette]

Ginger2;4479374:

… you are focusing on one verse to support what you already believe. Below are some points to consider:…

I didn’t give an interpretation either, Cinette. I did talk about some of the things needed to consider and agree with Catholics that this particular gift was only given to the Apostles.Ginger, now we are going waaaay back. I did not understand you that is why I said it was as clear as mud! Why do you think tht this particular gift was only

given to the Apostles? Surely if Jesus was founding His Church and appointing his Apostles to spread the good news and giving them the power to absolve sin etc. then this ministry was to be passed down in order to ensure continuation throughout the centuries?

And I asked what you thought I said it meant but you never responded.I really have no idea what you thought it meant. Surely you didn’t think that the instructions given to the Apostles was for their lifetime only? Perhaps you could tell me what you meant so that I can understand you.

This thread is going nowhere and I would like to know what you thought I said it meant before it closes or I depart.I like your intensity and interest. Thank you for bringing it up. Maybe we can help each other.

BTW, The reason I don’t ever interpret those verses is because I would be guessing. So all I say about them is that the meaning must not contradict any other Scriptures or it is not the true meaning.Fair enough

 

[Ginger2]

quote=Cinette: Why do you think this particular gift was only given to the Apostles? Surely if Jesus was founding His Church and appointing his Apostles to spread the good news and giving them the power to absolve sin etc. then this ministry was to be passed down in order to ensure continuation throughout the centuries?

Not necessarily. The Apostles were prophets as they spoke for God. And clarified specifically when they spoke on their own authority apart from God. God chose people to be His Earthly spokesperson all the time and did not give any sort of succession right to them. Even as we see with Abraham having succession thru his descendants, the line is always broken where God breaks it and chooses the person He wants - despite those chosen men trying to chose according to what they see a right.

So the idea of unbroken succession fails. This is proven true when we see men appointing heretics to serve for time as pope. If the church can unwittingly elect a heretic, then the church has not this promise of “unbroken” succession. The line is broken and repaired each time a heretic serves. It is due to the freewill of men as you see in the OT Each time men try to take control, disaster follows.

Surely you didn’t think the instructions given to the Apostles was for their lifetime only? Perhaps you could tell me what you meant so that I can understand you.

Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, the gifts began to cease when they fulfilled their purpose even before the Apostles died.

Toward the end of his ministry, Paul ceased to be able to heal people.

Maybe we can help each other.

I think very highly of you Cinette.

 

[rolltidefan]

Yes and Yes - yes I do want to know what you think and yes it is for a good debate.

I used to smoke and about 20 years ago I stopped BOOM! just like that! I think that we ex-smokers are the most intolerant of smokers!! I am a revert to the Church and the more I learn the more I realise that there is no compromise when it comes to faith. Both my husband and I have become more and more orthodox in our stand. Yet socially/politically we remain left leaning!

I don’t know about that, I am pretty intolerant of smokers myself and I never have smoked. I think one of the reasons why though, is my grandfather on my fathers side always smoked. When my dad was growing up, my grandfather buying cigarettes was more important than buying his children clothes. So, I think about that and how something can come before your kids and it makes me pretty intolerant. I think that is great that you have become grounded in your faith. As they always say, if you are going to stand for something, go for it all the way!!

Having said that I understand your position and there have been times in your postings when I had to go to check your profile because I was sure you were Protestant and yet you said things very Catholic.

lol Nope I am protestant through and through!!! As I said before, I am just married to a Catholic which is what brought me to learn a little bit about the faith. I think probably what you are seeing is we as Catholics and protestants which equals Christians and I just want to live my life to the standard of the way God taught us to treat people. I think talking/debating is a good thing. I think we all learn from each other doing that. There have been a few on here (Catholics) that is, that I very much respect, you and Peter J being two of them. I think you have stood up for what you believe in with respect. However, there are just some subjects that I don’t know if they will ever get “figured out” by the debating on here. We all stand so firm in our beliefs that it is hard to change some of us, as we both have good stances on what we believe. At any rate, I do appreciate your talking with me. You have been great!!!

Rolli - I do appreciate you so lets leave it at that.

Cheers and God bless
Cinette

And I respect you for it.

To be perfectly honest, sometimes I think that on this website, we (Catholics) put too much pressure on you (Protestants) to be ecumenical and/or irenical.

I would agree with you Peter J. I think that swings both ways though also. There are some very intolerant Protestants also. I think we all learn who we can talk to on here and who we can actually respect. There have been some on both sides that have earned my respects. I sure do appreciate all your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Cinette]

quote=Cinette: Why do you think this particular gift was only given to the Apostles? Surely if Jesus was founding His Church and appointing his Apostles to spread the good news and giving them the power to absolve sin etc. then this ministry was to be passed down in order to ensure continuation throughout the centuries?

Not necessarily. The Apostles were prophets as they spoke for God. And clarified specifically when they spoke on their own authority apart from God. God chose people to be His Earthly spokesperson all the time and did not give any sort of succession right to them. Even as we see with Abraham having succession thru his descendants, the line is always broken where God breaks it and chooses the person He wants - despite those chosen men trying to chose according to what they see a right.

So the idea of unbroken succession fails. This is proven true when we see men appointing heretics to serve for time as pope. If the church can unwittingly elect a heretic, then the church has not this promise of “unbroken” succession. The line is broken and repaired each time a heretic serves. It is due to the freewill of men as you see in the OT Each time men try to take control, disaster follows.

Surely you didn’t think the instructions given to the Apostles was for their lifetime only? Perhaps you could tell me what you meant so that I can understand you.

Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, the gifts began to cease when they fulfilled their purpose even before the Apostles died.

Toward the end of his ministry, Paul ceased to be able to heal people.

Maybe we can help each other.

I think very highly of you Cinette.

Ginger you and I have very different beliefs and interpretations.

• I believe Jesus kept his promise that the Holy Spirit would lead us to all truth;
• I believe Jesus when he said he would be with us always and tht the gates of hell would never prevail
• I believe Jesus founded His Church and it was for all time until the 2nd Judgment.

You are calling Jesus a liar by your statements. Read your bible.

For the first 300 years all the Popes were martyred. They were extraordinary witnesses.

I am not going to get into a long discussion with you Ginger. You have said some pretty shocking things here about heretics being elected as Popes. I am offended quite frankly as this is such nonsense. To even contemplate that Jesus would be so stupid as to give powers of Ministry to the Apostles only for the duration of their lives!!!

You then go on to say that Toward the end of his ministry, Paul ceased to be able to heal people.:whacky: :hypno: :bigyikes:

I suppose Jesus also lost his powers of miracles because when he was taunted and challenged to come down from his cross and did not do so - maybe he had lost his powers too?

Ginger - this is crazy. Please!! I am getting so irritated. I have debated with a number of Protestants - except for the goofy ones, they at least were able to present themselves intelligently.

I am sorry Ginger but you make no sense at all!!

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger you and I have very different beliefs and interpretations.

• I believe Jesus kept his promise that the Holy Spirit would lead us to all truth;
• I believe Jesus when he said he would be with us always and tht the gates of hell would never prevail
• I believe Jesus founded His Church and it was for all time until the 2nd Judgment.

Here is what I believe:

God always tells the truth and keeps His promises.
Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The church Jesus Christ himself founded will endure forever, I am part of that church and nothing any Catholic says or does can change that fact.
Romans 8:38 “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

When Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to lead the church (the body of believers) to all truth, he gave it to all believers, not just the a select few as the Catholic Church erroneously teaches.
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
The prior chapter says there were 150 disciples at Pentacost
Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith."

You are calling Jesus a liar by your statements. Read your bible.

Cinette, please don’t put words in my mouth. Disagreeing with an interpretation because it contradicts the rest of the Scriptures is saying that I believe you are wrong.

You have said some pretty shocking things here about heretics being elected as Popes. For the first 300 years all the Popes were martyred. They were extraordinary witnesses.(/quote]

It’s a fact that anti-popes have held office at different times in history.
Cinette;4511188:

To even contemplate that Jesus would be so stupid as to give powers of Ministry to the Apostles only for the duration of their lives!!!

Actually it is out of wisdom that God does not not empower human beings forever. God appointed kings at different times in history and often he had to remove them when their power and position went to their heads. In His infinite mercy God has spared us that grief. Holding council to remove heretics and having to destroy thewir heretical writings the Catholic Church has brought on itself. God did not impose that burden on you.

You then go on to say that Toward the end of his ministry, Paul ceased to be able to heal people.

:whacky: :hypno: :bigyikes:

2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have** I left at Miletum sick.** Why did he leave him sick. Why didn’t Paul heal him?

[Qoute]I suppose Jesus also lost his powers of miracles because when he was taunted and challenged to come down from his cross and did not do so - maybe he had lost his powers too?

Again you have to go to extremes. One morning last summer my husband looked out the window and said “It rained last night.” I said, “It didn’t rain…” He did not jump to an extreme conclusion that I don’t believe it rains in Minnesota! The ground was wet because the sprinklers had been on before he got up.

Stop taking everything to extremes. It doesn’t make you any more credible in anyone’s eyes except fellow Catholics and they’re not ones you’re trying to win them over.

I am getting so irritated. I have debated with a number of Protestants - except for the goofy ones, they at least were able to present themselves intelligently.

I am sorry Ginger but you make no sense at all!!

Maybe that’s because you lack understanding.

A bit of advice…if you want to persuade a Bible-thumpin’ Jesus freak like me. Reason with me out of the Scriptures. Then I will believe. But accusing me of calling Jesus a liar is false testimony and just not nice.

I still like and respect you, Cinette. I’m convinced your heart is in the right place, but patience is a virtue you should work on. When you feel yourself getting upset - walk away from your PC and say a little pray B4 you return.

 

[Peter_J]

Not necessarily. The Apostles were prophets as they spoke for God. And clarified specifically when they spoke on their own authority apart from God. God chose people to be His Earthly spokesperson all the time and did not give any sort of succession right to them. Even as we see with Abraham having succession thru his descendants, the line is always broken where God breaks it and chooses the person He wants - despite those chosen men trying to chose according to what they see a right.

That’s how it was in the Old Testament. But that did not continue on into the Church – if it did, new Scripture would keep being added to the Bible.

But there aren’t any new Scriptures added. Why? Because God gave the whole revelation to the Apostles. So now our job is not to watch for new prophets to appear as God’s earthly spokesperson, but rather to pass on the Deposit of Faith which has passed on to us, going all the way back to the Apostles.

So the idea of unbroken succession fails. This is proven true when we see men appointing heretics to serve for time as pope. If the church can unwittingly elect a heretic, then the church has not this promise of “unbroken” succession. The line is broken and repaired each time a heretic serves. It is due to the freewill of men as you see in the OT Each time men try to take control, disaster follows.

No, succession would only be broken if an entire generation of Bishops were heretical (not just the Pope). But I don’t believe the Lord would ever allow that to happen.

 

[Peter_J]

There have been a few on here (Catholics) that is, that I very much respect, you and Peter J being two of them. I think you have stood up for what you believe in with respect. However, there are just some subjects that I don’t know if they will ever get “figured out” by the debating on here. We all stand so firm in our beliefs that it is hard to change some of us, as we both have good stances on what we believe. At any rate, I do appreciate your talking with me. You have been great!!!

Thanks, RTF. Cinette and have been on a lot of the same threads; a lot of time we’ve gotten along because we agree, but I think even more often we’ve gotten along in spite of the fact that we disagree.

 

[Ginger2]

That’s how it was in the Old Testament. But that did not continue on into the Church – if it did, new Scripture would keep being added to the Bible.

But there aren’t any new Scriptures added. Why? Because God gave the whole revelation to the Apostles. So now our job is not to watch for new prophets to appear as God’s earthly spokesperson, but rather to pass on the Deposit of Faith which has passed on to us, going all the way back to the Apostles.

I agree. That’s why I don’t accept the “evolving” of new doctrines within the RC

No, succession would only be broken if an entire generation of Bishops were heretical (not just the Pope). But I don’t believe the Lord would ever allow that to happen.

What constitutes a generation? The pope is pope for life.

 

[Peter_J]

I agree. That’s why I don’t accept the “evolving” of new doctrines within the RC

Well in a sense, I don’t either.

What constitutes a generation? The pope is pope for life.

What I mean is, as long as there is always a “remnant” of legitimate bishops, succession is not broken – even if there were a period of time in which there’s no legitimate Pope (because of heresy or for whatever other reason).

 

[Lucinda514]

Yes, a Catholic Priest can forgive sins…it’s that simple.

 

[Cinette]

I agree. That’s why I don’t accept the “evolving” of new doctrines within the RC

What constitutes a generation? The pope is pope for life.

As I see it doctrines do not “evolve” - they are discerned.

The scriptures are so rich and so deep. For example the Trinity did not evolve, it was discerned. As the Church Authority emanating from the Apostles was formed and the scriptures were declared inspired and compiled into what today is the Bible, as these scriptures were studied and interpreted, the doctrine of the Trinity emerged from the conclusions which were reached. The Trinity was defined from the scriptures - it was there embedded in the scriptures.

So to say that “new doctrines evolve” is not Catholic - not even Christian I would say.

I do wish to point out that I am no theologian - I am a revert who is learning more about my Faith every day. So what I say is my understanding and perception.