Protestants, can a Catholic Priest forgive sins?

[celticcrusader]

did you know that in the year of our Lord 1529, Martin Luther [reformer] praised private confessions and had devotation to the BVM.

 

[celticcrusader]

Lisa, I was in a thread discussing where the Bible came from

Your Bible has extra books that do not belong in it. The are not God’s Word. Those uninspired books are used to support doctrines that are not supported in any inspired books.

The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible.

God gave the Jews the OT. We got it from them.

There is no dispute concerning the NT.

I am going to ask you a loaded question. If the C.C. did not give us the bible, who did? this is an open question to every one or should it be a topic of a new thread?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Lisa, I was in a thread discussing where the Bible came from and whether or not the Catholics had uninspired books added…

The Catholics couldn’t or wouldn’t respond to the information I provided from Catholic sources. They had no answers to counter the facts I presented. All of a sudden the thread mysteriously disappeared.

I have asked about it, but they will not tell me why they deleted the thread.

Your Bible has extra books that do not belong in it. The are not God’s Word. Those uninspired books are used to support doctrines that are not supported in any inspired books.

The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible.

God gave the Jews the OT. We got it from them.

There is no dispute concerning the NT.

Ginger, sorry, but even the Protestants don’t dispute where the bible came from. Learn your history. Do some research. Do anything but talk at the top of your head about things you don’t know about.
For the first 1500 years of Christianity, they were all Catholics…get a clue.

 

[llblarosa]

Ginger:

What exactly do you mean by “there is no dispute concerning the NT?”

Yes and regarding the KJV, the OT came from the Jews, the so-called “Apocrypha” from the Greek Septuagint, and the NT from the Latin Vulgate. Did you know the original 1611 authorized version of the KJV had the so-called apocryphal books in it? What about John’s command not to take books from it?

Lisa

 

[Peter_J]

*You obviously agree with Ginger and I find that interesting since you are Catholic!
*

So now I “obviously agree with Ginger”? Isn’t it funny how I’m the last one to know that?

Originally Posted by Ginger2
Of course not. I’m not a Catholic any longer! Why would anything I say attest to my being Catholic. I am a Bible thumping Jesus freak!!!

Oh brother.

Yeah that was real prideful of Ginger to tell us that she isn’t Catholic. Good thing you put her in her place.

I’m really very sorry, Cinette. I think we have made a pretty good team in the past, but I just don’t want to be a part of whatever “holy war” you’re currently waging against any Protestants who dare to show their faces on this forum. (Maybe when you’re done, we can chat. Unless of course you decide that I’m a “traitor” for not joining the Protestant-bashing, and hence not someone you’d want to speak to.)

Blessings,

 

[WindGirl]

Ginger:

What exactly do you mean by “there is no dispute concerning the NT?”

Yes and regarding the KJV, the OT came from the Jews, the so-called “Apocrypha” from the Greek Septuagint, and the NT from the Latin Vulgate. Did you know the original 1611 authorized version of the KJV had the so-called apocryphal books in it? What about John’s command not to take books from it?

Lisa

From the opposite point of view, one could ask what about the admonishment concerning adding to God’s word?

johnankerberg.org/ankerberg-articles/apocrypha.html

Also you might like to take a look at this concerning the Aprocrypha and KJV.

wayoflife.org/fbns/whydidkjv-apocrypha.html

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger:
the NT from the Latin Vulgate.

Lisa

Lisa, that’s hilarious and I’ll tell you why.

Jerome wasn’t born until about 340, so your suggestion that the NT came from the vulgate means there was no NT until then.

All the New Testament book/epistles/letters were completed and in circulation well before the end of the 1st century. Christians new which books were inspired because they accepted the Apostles as prophets of God.

Evidence that they knew from the beginning is contained in the Scriptures themselves where Peter calls Paul’s writings “scripture” and Paul claims divine inspiration. And Christians obviously agreed as they were diligently making copies and passing them around to all the churches!!!

1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1st John 5:13 states, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

 

[Ginger2]

Also, two Popes have already declared the vugate translation has imperfections. They have revised it.

Here is an excerpt of their decision:
“In realizing this revision, the old text of the Vulgate edition was taken into consideration word for word, namely, whenever the original texts are accurately rendered, such as they are found in modern critical editions; however the text was prudently improved, whenever it departs from them or interprets them less correctly.”

The complete text can be read at
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JPTHESAU.HTM
Apostolic Constitution SCRIPTURARUM THESAURUS
Pope John Paul II

 

[Peter_J]

All the New Testament book/epistles/letters were completed and in circulation well before the end of the 1st century. Christians knew which books were inspired because they accepted the Apostles as prophets of God.

Not entirely, no. In particular, there was a great deal of debate about which books, besides the four Gospels and Paul’s letter, ought to be included in the NT.

 

[Ginger2]

:grouphug:

OFF TOPIC for a minute or two…

The funeral brought back a lot of memories from when I was a child.

I grew up on a sawmill and my cousin worked for my dad.

Those were very good times. My mother had wonderful parties for our neighbors and all the men who worked for us. Everyone loved her parties - and her homemade wine.

I was taught to dance by one of the men, Jim Hines. I was very little and thinking back, it was very nice that these adults were kind enough to pay any attention to a little tot like me.

However, I do have some doubts about my parents love for me due to all this reminiscing …

When we were very little my dad gave us some unusual pets. One such pet was a baby snapping turtle.

I was fascinated with how it snapped the little twigs I stuck in its face in two. One day the snapping turtle disappeared.

Several years later we discovered a huge snapping turtle living in the sawdust pile.

The sawdust pile we played in when we were younger.

Now, the reason I am doubting my parents love for me is I can’t help but wonder…

what kind of parents give their children snapping turtles for pets???

 

[emeraldcoast]

Reading all your posts I am very concerned about you Peter, Cinette on the other hand is doing a fine job defending the Church, which she clearly loves from false accusations as is her duty as a Catholic, you should try it some time instead of just making sycophantic comments in favour those who have set themselves up in opposition to Christ’s Church.

Leonius,

Peter, my brother in Christ, is one of the Catholics on the board that I do not hesitate to go to privately and ask for clarification about something in the Catholic Church. Peter is wonderful in sharing his Catholic faith with me.

Happy Advent!

 

[Ginger2]

Not entirely, no. In particular, there was a great deal of debate about which books, besides the four Gospels and Paul’s letter, ought to be included in the NT.

I think the debates began due to pseudo writings being introduced by those who wanted to corrupt the faith. That’s when and why the discussions of officially approving a canon of Scripture began.

But, it is a fact that the earliest Christians knew which books were inspired because they knew the Apostles.

 

[Peter_J]

I think the debates began due to pseudo writings being introduced by those who wanted to corrupt the faith. That’s when and why the discussions of officially approving a canon of Scripture began.

But, it is a fact that the earliest Christians knew which books were inspired because they knew the Apostles.

But it’s pretty clear that in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, no one had the precise list of 27 books that we now know as the New Testament.

 

[SyCarl]

Protestant questions:
Can’t I talk to God directly, not a priest, to get forgiveness?
Not according to the bible. Read John 20:21-23, 2Cor 2:10 and 2Cor 5:18.

John 20:21-23

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
(John 20:21-23 NASB)

This analogy is faulty. We can confess directly to God who is the friend who is offended. We don’t have to worry that we might forget or not recognize a sin, since He knows them all. The sacrament of confession would be akin to going to our friend’s neighbour and telling him we broke the ipod and asking him to forgive us on behalf of his neighbour.

 

[SyCarl]

Doesn’t God forgive no matter what?
If we think of sin as merely breaking rules, it is hard to understand why God can’t just “look the other way”. But sin is real; it hurts us and makes us distant from him–and unable to enter heaven. We can only be restored if we confess.

We need God’s forgiveness. That does not mean we have to go to someone else to get it from Him. What does King David say?

I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD”; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah.
(Psalms 32:5 NASB)

Who did David confess to? He confessed to God and his sin was forgiven. There was no sacrament of confession in the Old Testament. People confessed directly to God. Did God make forgiveness under the New Testament more difficult by requiring us to go to a third person? And God does forgive us.

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1 John 1:8-9 NASB)

And who do we go through?

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2 NASB)

We go through Jesus our Advocate. No third party is required.

Confession just gives people the idea that it’s all right to sin as long as you’re sorry later.
If a man is confessing drunkenness while he has plans with his buddies to go bar hopping and get drunk again the coming weekend, he can’t be forgiven. He has to have decided to stop.
Confession stops sins; it doesn’t start them.

How does the priest know the man’s intention? So the priest’s absolution is ineffective because of a lack of contrition? If contrition is the important part and the priest cannot know if contrition is truly present why go to the priest? It makes more sense to confess directly to God who knows whether we are contrite or not.

Does it hurt to confess to a priest or anybody else for that matter? I don’t think as long as you know you are confessing to God and it is Him who forgives.

 

[SyCarl]

Leonius,

Peter, my brother in Christ, is one of the Catholics on the board that I do not hesitate to go to privately and ask for clarification about something in the Catholic Church. Peter is wonderful in sharing his Catholic faith with me.

Happy Advent!

I totally agree about Peter. He is a very good ambassador for the Catholic Church.

 

[Peter_J]

Leonius,

Peter, my brother in Christ, is one of the Catholics on the board that I do not hesitate to go to privately and ask for clarification about something in the Catholic Church. Peter is wonderful in sharing his Catholic faith with me.

Happy Advent!

emeraldcoast,

Thanks for the kind words. As far as the post you are responding to, I think it’s important to keep in mind that there are tons and tons of people on the internet. I don’t let myself be bothered much by any one person’s criticisms, regardless of whether his/her profile says “Protestant” or “Catholic”.

Happy Advent to you too!

 

[LilyM]

We need God’s forgiveness. That does not mean we have to go to someone else to get it from Him. What does King David say?

Who did David confess to? He confessed to God and his sin was forgiven. There was no sacrament of confession in the Old Testament. People confessed directly to God. Did God make forgiveness under the New Testament more difficult by requiring us to go to a third person? And God does forgive us.

And who do we go through?

But the question is HOW did David confess, and how did he know he was forgiven? Let’s look at the process in action. In 2 Samuel 12, after his adultering with Bathsheba. David confesses TO NATHAN that he has sinned against God. He certainly doesn’t just take himself off to the closet and pray privately.

Additionally the prophet Nathan, God’s mouthpiece to David, then TELLS David in God’s name that he is forgiven. There’s no indication that David presumed on this forgiveness without the verbal confession to Nathan and the verbal assurance from him.

We see in this episode the reasons we need to confess to a priest - we need someone to be our Nathan, through whom we confess our sins to God, and who in turn as God’s mouthpiece can TELL us that we have been forgiven, for we simply cannot presume so otherwise.

 

[ac_claire]

So now I “obviously agree with Ginger”? Isn’t it funny how I’m the last one to know that?

Oh brother.

Yeah that was real prideful of Ginger to tell us that she isn’t Catholic. Good thing you put her in her place.

I’m really very sorry, Cinette. I think we have made a pretty good team in the past, but I just don’t want to be a part of whatever “holy war” you’re currently waging against any Protestants who dare to show their faces on this forum. (Maybe when you’re done, we can chat. Unless of course you decide that I’m a “traitor” for not joining the Protestant-bashing, and hence not someone you’d want to speak to.)

Peter,

Respectfully I have to say I think you’re a little off-base here. I’ve read through this entire thread and Cinette certainly hasn’t been engaging in any “protestant bashing” or a “holy war”…Go back and read over her posts and the posts that she has replied to (particularly the ones that you said concerned you). She’s done an excellent job of standing up for the faith and has tried to be more understanding and charitable than I think I might be able to be had I been in her place in this discussion lol.

And also, to be fair, you did start this my bringing up your “concerns”…She was just defending herself and asking for clarification on what you meant exactly by that. Surely you must agree that that’s a fair request?

 

[Cinette]

Well, I’d rather believe what I believe God is showing me in His word than what someone else says it says. No matter what their claims for themselves. Psalm 118:8.

*" Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand." *

• St Augustine

STOP - THINK - PRAY!