Protestants can you help

[swplan76]

There are hundreds of millions of Protestants, all interpreting Scripture individually by mere personal opinion, and with all of them claiming “The Holy Spirit Told Me”.

You say that they are interpreting “by mere personal opinion.” Maybe they are not ALL interpreting based on opinion. Maybe some (or all) are authentically being led by the Spirit.

It might be that God is moving in different directions among various people of various cultures and times. Those people might have thought that God was giving them a permanent interpretation that was right for all people of all time, but maybe they misunderstood.

Are believers called to be the judge of others? Jesus’ disciples stopped a man from doing ministry in His name because “he was not one of us.” Jesus corrected them, “If they are not against us, then they are for us.” We are not supposed to get in arguments about who is right and who is not (I don’t think).

How can this possibly be, when every doctrine taught by one sect is denied by another, except for the existence of GOD?

This isn’t exactly the case. Many denominations function with the understanding that many of us are doing our best to seek God’s way and being right is not the goal. Trusting that God is right is the goal. I don’t have to spend my time arguing with people over the small print. Many denominations agree to disagree - they are not consumed with a desire to be right and show everyone else the error of their ways. Many denominations are closer than you might imagine. Many denominations believe that God holds the book of life - He knows who is right and who is not and He will make the call - we are not called to judge others - its God’s job, not ours.

Since GOD is one, with only one truth and with only one Holy Spirit, how could that one Spirit of truth be prompting those who have contradicting viewpoints?

In some ways we are all wrong… because we are human. God does not need us to be perfect - He is perfect. He asks us to recognize that He is God and He alone will provide us with perfection. Every congregation or parish will present flaws - we should not look for a perfect church. God is where we will find pure divinity, no where else.

May it be that the Spirit is leading on denomination into one practice and another denomination into another area? Maybe God is moving among all denominations to do something supernatural and unexplainable to human minds. If that is the case, then we have no business drawing lines and judging others based on religious activities, right?

 

[O.S.Luke]

But without Stawmen and ad hominem attacks, how are people supposed to post here?!

So true. Sometimes, Strawmen and ad hominem seem to be the modus operandi of a few at CAF. It’s like the Great Commission has been rewritten: “Go forth, C.A.F.'ers, coerce and berate, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

Most folks, thankfully, are not like this. But the few give a lot a bad name here.

 

[Callin]

What do you think “I am in the Father and The Father is in me” means?

That Jesus is God. It’s about the Trinity.

If the second part means that Jesus is the Ark, where God dwells, then the first means that God is an Ark too, in which Jesus dwells. There are not too Arks of the New Covenant. And if God dwells within Himself, then since He is timeless, Jesus would be the Ark of the Old Covenant, too. This does not make sense.

Ten Commandments = The Word of The Father = Christ
Jar of Manna = Bread of Heaven = Christ
Aarons staff = Authority of The High Priest = Authority of Christ.

Yes, that is all true! But the commandments, manna, and staff were not the Ark itself. They were placed WITHIN the Ark. If they equal Christ, then what was Christ within? Mary.

Jar, Staff, Commandments → placed within the old Ark
Word of Father, Bread, Authority = Jesus → placed within new Ark

The link I gave you before answered the points you’re making now. And in the passage where Mary visits Elizabeth, the author of Luke uses language that is almost identical to the language used to describe the Ark in the Old Testament. David jumped for joy when he came near it - so does the child being carried by Elizabeth. David asks, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” Mary asks,“Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

There are others.
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5.asp

The preists lifted up Christ. To say they lifted up Christ in Mary is bizarre.

It’s not about what the priests pick up. It’s about where God dwells. For Him to experience the birth, life and death of a normal person, He would have to be born of a woman. Mary is the New Ark, which made Jesus’ coming to earth as a true human possible.

 

[Bill_Pick]

You say that they are interpreting “by mere personal opinion.” Maybe they are not ALL interpreting based on opinion. Maybe some (or all) are authentically being led by the Spirit.

It might be that God is moving in different directions among various people of various cultures and times. Those people might have thought that God was giving them a permanent interpretation that was right for all people of all time, but maybe they misunderstood.

Are believers called to be the judge of others? Jesus’ disciples stopped a man from doing ministry in His name because “he was not one of us.” Jesus corrected them, “If they are not against us, then they are for us.” We are not supposed to get in arguments about who is right and who is not (I don’t think).

This isn’t exactly the case. Many denominations function with the understanding that many of us are doing our best to seek God’s way and being right is not the goal. Trusting that God is right is the goal. I don’t have to spend my time arguing with people over the small print. Many denominations agree to disagree - they are not consumed with a desire to be right and show everyone else the error of their ways. Many denominations are closer than you might imagine. Many denominations believe that God holds the book of life - He knows who is right and who is not and He will make the call - we are not called to judge others - its God’s job, not ours.

In some ways we are all wrong… because we are human. God does not need us to be perfect - He is perfect. He asks us to recognize that He is God and He alone will provide us with perfection. Every congregation or parish will present flaws - we should not look for a perfect church. God is where we will find pure divinity, no where else.

May it be that the Spirit is leading on denomination into one practice and another denomination into another area? Maybe God is moving among all denominations to do something supernatural and unexplainable to human minds. If that is the case, then we have no business drawing lines and judging others based on religious activities, right?

NO church is perfect and I do not believe any Cathloic will say the Church is perfect in fact the CC is full of sinners,Cathlic are just saying it was the Church started By Jesus Christ as does the Bible a book that was written By the Church first called universal and in about 100ad called Cathloic

 

[ppasa316]

This still doesn’t show that Mary had sin. Of course God was her Savior, who do you think saved her from falling into sin? When she presented the offering she was doing two things: leading by example (like Christ when he was baptized) and saving her skin (if people found out she didn’t do it, they would stone her). In Aramaic, the word “brother” means much more than “man of the same mother”. It also mans “male cousin” and even “male friend”. The Bible never says that the brothers were also born of Mary. Where were the brothers when Jesus was 13 years old and he, Mary, and Joseph went to the Temple?

If Mary didn’t have sin where would I find that in scripture. You see the bible doesn’t support your theory of mary not having sin. To the contrary, it affirms her sinfulness. As for Jesus having brother and sisters which those words are used in a family connection, always meaning a literal blood brother or sister (mk 1:16,19,13:12, Jn 11:1-2, Acts 23:16, Rom 16:15). Matt 1:25 seems to imply that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus was born. It would be unnatural or unbiblical for Joseph not to have sexual relations with Mary. Scripture considers sex to be an essential part of marriage Gen 1:28, 1 Cor. 7:1-7, Heb 13:4. Your are right that the bible doesn’t say where his family were when they went to the temple but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t have brother or sisters

 

[cheese_sdc]

So true. Sometimes, Strawmen and ad hominem seem to be the modus operandi of a few at CAF. It’s like the Great Commission has been rewritten: “Go forth, C.A.F.'ers, coerce and berate, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

Yep. Sometimes it seems to be “The Gospel According to Sledgehammer” 'round here.

 

[swplan76]

NO church is perfect and I do not believe any Cathloic will say the Church is perfect in fact the CC is full of sinners,Cathlic are just saying it was the Church started By Jesus Christ as does the Bible a book that was written By the Church first called universal and in about 100ad called Cathloic

Yeah, … I don’ t disagree with that.

I’m saying that the other denominations are simply extensions of the true church. Whether it is Catholics or protestants who are closer to being the right church may not be a question that God is concerned with - maybe God is more concerned with each of us and how much we sincerely desire Him.

 

[Bill_Pick]

If Mary didn’t have sin where would I find that in scripture. You see the bible doesn’t support your theory of mary not having sin. To the contrary, it affirms her sinfulness. As for Jesus having brother and sisters which those words are used in a family connection, always meaning a literal blood brother or sister (mk 1:16,19,13:12, Jn 11:1-2, Acts 23:16, Rom 16:15). Matt 1:25 seems to imply that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus was born. It would be unnatural or unbiblical for Joseph not to have sexual relations with Mary. Scripture considers sex to be an essential part of marriage Gen 1:28, 1 Cor. 7:1-7, Heb 13:4. Your are right that the bible doesn’t say where his family were when they went to the temple but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t have brother or sisters

As a Christian we know how Jesus was about sin so you must think He was going to stay in a sinful vessel for 9 mos.

 

[Dokimas]

Bill Pick, does Jesus live in you? Col 1:27

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill Pick, does Jesus live in you? Col 1:27

Thats a hard question unlike some I know I,m a sinner,I try to do as God likes but I think at time I miss the mark.What about You does Jesus live in you,24 hr. a day
PS. I do not have the time to read the verse B\4 or After Col1:27 but I will lated.

 

[Dokimas]

Thats a hard question unlike some I know I,m a sinner,I try to do as God likes but I think at time I miss the mark.What about You does Jesus live in you,24 hr. a day
PS. I do not have the time to read the verse B\4 or After Col1:27 but I will lated.

Does the Holy Spirit live in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16​

Does Christ live in you? Gal 2:20; 4:19; Eph 3:17​

Does God live in you? 1 John 4:4

 

[ppasa316]

As a Christian we know how Jesus was about sin so you must think He was going to stay in a sinful vessel for 9 mos.

Yes, Jesus was sinless not Mary but you still haven’t answered my questions from my previous reply’s or are we going by your thoughts. Show me some scripture brother. You started this thread.

 

[Peter_J]

Obviously Catholic Answers carries more wieght then scripture.

Now now EA. :tsktsk:

Seriously, if you’re on a Catholic Answers discussion forum, you’re very likely to find a pretty high proportion of Catholics-Answers-fans. I don’t see anything wrong with that. (If you took a poll at a Red Sox game, I’d be willing to bet you’d find a pretty high proportion of Red Sox fans. )

 

[Peter_J]

So true. Sometimes, Strawmen and ad hominem seem to be the modus operandi of a few at CAF. It’s like the Great Commission has been rewritten: “Go forth, C.A.F.'ers, coerce and berate, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

Most folks, thankfully, are not like this. But the few give a lot a bad name here.

Yep. Sometimes it seems to be “The Gospel According to Sledgehammer” 'round here.

It’s been said before (don’t ask me who said it), but I think it’s worth repeating: C.A.F. is not without it’s Protestant-bashing, but I don’t think it is much worse (if at all) than the Catholic-bashing that happens on a typical Protestant forum. So the question isn’t “How can we fix what’s wrong with CAF?” but rather “How can we fix what’s wrong with Catholic and Protestant discussion forums?” To me, the only kind of solution that has a chance of working is a joint solution.

 

[Peter_J]

Very well said. I have not seen so many protestants jump on a thread like this one

Not meaing to be a “know it all” or “smartass”, but I did call it back on page one:

I think you put that very well, O.S. Luke. Unfortunately, I suspect that a good number of Protestant posters will be successfully “baited”, because either:
(1) they’ve bought into some form of false ecumenism, or
(2) they’re just easily baited in general

(Note: That’s not to say that (1) and (2) are any more true of Protestants then they are of Catholics.)

 

[JonNC]

It’s been said before (don’t ask me who said it), but I think it’s worth repeating: C.A.F. is not without it’s Protestant-bashing, but I don’t think it is much worse (if at all) than the Catholic-bashing that happens on a typical Protestant forum. So the question isn’t “How can we fix what’s wrong with CAF?” but rather “How can we fix what’s wrong with Catholic and Protestant discussion forums?” To me, the only kind of solution that has a chance of working is a joint solution.

Indeed, how can we fix the Catholic Protestant divide? I always wonder how many we turn away from Christ when we act so unlovingly toward each other, regardless of which forum we are on. And I admit there there have been times that I have been guilty of my own charge.

Jon

 

[cheese_sdc]

It’s been said before (don’t ask me who said it), but I think it’s worth repeating: C.A.F. is not without it’s Protestant-bashing, but I don’t think it is much worse (if at all) than the Catholic-bashing that happens on a typical Protestant forum. So the question isn’t “How can we fix what’s wrong with CAF?” but rather “How can we fix what’s wrong with Catholic and Protestant discussion forums?” To me, the only kind of solution that has a chance of working is a joint solution.

Have you heard of John Gabriel’s Greater Internet ****wad Theory? Look it up. (Strong Language alert).

 

[Peter_J]

Have you heard of John Gabriel’s Greater Internet ****wad Theory? Look it up. (Strong Language alert).

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of John Gabriel (an amateur psychiatrist, I’m guessing?) or even the “Penny Arcade” comic; but I’m familiar with the general concept you’re talking about. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect (I note that the last section says: ‘The popular online comic Penny Arcade described this same notion as “John Gabriel’s Greater Internet [bleep] Theory”.’)

 

[cheese_sdc]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of John Gabriel (an amateur psychiatrist, I’m guessing?) or even the “Penny Arcade” comic; but I’m familiar with the general concept you’re talking about. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect (I note that the last section says: ‘The popular online comic Penny Arcade described this same notion as “John Gabriel’s Greater Internet [bleep] Theory”.’)

:lol: John Gabriel is the artist for Penny Arcade, his friend Mike is the writer. If you are a gamer (computer or old fashion “Pen & Paper” RPG type) you might enjoy Penny Arcade. It can be absolutely hilarious at times. (Warning! It is very vulgar.)

I think he pegged it, though, with his Greater Internet ****wad Theory.

 

[TLM08]

There are hundreds of millions of Protestants, all interpreting Scripture individually by mere personal opinion, and with all of them claiming “The Holy Spirit Told Me”.
How can this possibly be, when every doctrine taught by one sect is denied by another, except for the existence of GOD? One claims the “spirit” told them to worship on Saturday, another makes the same claim except they were told Sunday. One says the “spirit” told them not to baptize infants. Yet another makes the same claim from the “spirit”, but insists they were told just the opposite, they must baptize infants.
One claims they were “told” to have communion once a week, yet another was “told” once a month, and yet a third was “told” quarterly. You can readily see that I could go on and on down through the whole list of beliefs and find one which teaches one way and another to the contrary.
Since GOD is one, with only one truth and with only one Holy Spirit, how could that one Spirit of truth be prompting those who have contradicting viewpoints?

More problematic is the opportunity for spiritual abuse and systematic corruption when human beings claim to speak for God declaring themselves to be the supreme spiritual authority on Earth.