Protestants cannot be saved?

[down_under]

Jesus teaches us that he who does not believe is condemned. But it is not our place to judge the hearts of others, only our own. I must say I have been finding myself appalled for several days about the reformed teaching that denies the sacraments. The lack of ability to see what scripture teaches about baptism boggles the mind. One Protestant posted that the baptism that Jesus taught His Apostles to do was “ritual”, by which I think he meant there is no power or meaning in it.

Another posted that it was “symbolic” (just like eucharist). He did not answer when I asked if that meant if one was “symbolically dead to sin, symbolically risen in Christ, and symbolically made a member of His body”.

okay you dont know it but the answer to that question is yes.
not because it is just a symbol but because you don’t understand what the fathers ment when they said symbol. pltainus was very clear. he lived in the time of agustine. in fact there is an acsium if you dont understand aguistine look him up in platiuns and see what he meant. a symbol is what it represents. in the creation stroy we are the symbol of god. that meant to the fathers that we participate in the divine being in some way. the fathers state all over the place “the euchrist is the symbol of god” but luther had lost the fathers understanding of what asymbol meant to them. a symbol cantains the reality it represents. without god being truly physically present the other stuff we can’t get to

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Tell me oh great includers of the separated bretheren the answer to this one simple question:

How are Protestants after committing a Mortal sin–absent perfect contrition or sacramental confession to a Catholic priest–reconciled to God–avoid dying in a state of mortal sin–and avoid Hell?/quote]

They say to God or Christ that they are sorry: they do not feel the need to have a mediator in this intimate relationship. It is quite possible to confess directly to Our Lord. If necessary, discussion with a pastor or minister is always possible.

There is no such thing as a mortal (actually now called ‘grave’) sin; there is no such thing called ‘perfect contrition’ unless the individual wants to call it that; there is no such thing as a sacramental confession by a protestant Christian to a Catholic priest. It is quite possible, on a daily basis, and in whatever circumstances to be in God’s love. Protestants do not believe that if one commits a ‘grave’ sin, and is hit by a bus in the next instant without confession to a priest that one will go automatically to hell (the was an authoritative statement made by one of our moderators on the Forum).

There are other ways of avoiding hell, no?

You have quoted the rules of the Catholic Church. They do not apply to all Christians, nor to persons of other faiths.

Blessings

Jabulani!

 

[guanophore]

How are Protestants after committing a Mortal sin–absent perfect contrition or sacramental confession to a Catholic priest–reconciled to God–avoid dying in a state of mortal sin–and avoid Hell?

They say to God or Christ that they are sorry: they do not feel the need to have a mediator in this intimate relationship. It is quite possible to confess directly to Our Lord. If necessary, discussion with a pastor or minister is always possible.

Many do not feel the need for a saviour, either, but does that make it so?

There is no such thing as a mortal (actually now called ‘grave’) sin;

I would be interested to hear your understanding of this scripture:

1 John 5:16-17
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
RSV

there is no such thing called ‘perfect contrition’ unless the individual wants to call it that;

Whew! I guess that lets the Magesterium off the hook, since they want to call it that. However, your rejection of a concept taught by the church does not cause the concept to cease to exist. You can refuse to accept the teaching, but to say that “there is no such thing” is a little broad, is it not?

there is no such thing as a sacramental confession by a protestant Christian to a Catholic priest.

In genteral, I think you are right. I think people have to be received into the church before they are allowed this sacrament. However, there may be a provision made for persons who are in dire circumstances (such as the battlefield) or in extreme situations. Someone with more experience with canon law will have to answer that one.

It is quite possible, on a daily basis, and in whatever circumstances to be in God’s love. Protestants do not believe that if one commits a ‘grave’ sin, and is hit by a bus in the next instant without confession to a priest that one will go automatically to hell (the was an authoritative statement made by one of our moderators on the Forum).

I think that is one reason they are called “protestants” is it not?

There are other ways of avoiding hell, no?

Yes, I think the poster was referring to the normative practice.

You have quoted the rules of the Catholic Church. They do not apply to all Christians, nor to persons of other faiths.

Blessings

Jabulani!

Actually, I think they do! The refusal of the separated brethren to abide by the rules does not make them invalid.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Jerry-Jet;2181718:

Tell me oh great includers of the separated bretheren the answer to this one simple question:

How are Protestants after committing a Mortal sin–absent perfect contrition or sacramental confession to a Catholic priest–reconciled to God–avoid dying in a state of mortal sin–and avoid Hell?/

quote]

They say to God or Christ that they are sorry: they do not feel the need to have a mediator in this intimate relationship. It is quite possible to confess directly to Our Lord. If necessary, discussion with a pastor or minister is always possible.

There is no such thing as a mortal (actually now called ‘grave’) sin; there is no such thing called ‘perfect contrition’ unless the individual wants to call it that; there is no such thing as a sacramental confession by a protestant Christian to a Catholic priest. It is quite possible, on a daily basis, and in whatever circumstances to be in God’s love. Protestants do not believe that if one commits a ‘grave’ sin, and is hit by a bus in the next instant without confession to a priest that one will go automatically to hell (the was an authoritative statement made by one of our moderators on the Forum).

There are other ways of avoiding hell, no?

You have quoted the rules of the Catholic Church. They do not apply to all Christians, nor to persons of other faiths.

Blessings

Jabulani!

The Gospel according to St. John 6 says,

53: So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55: For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Without the Eucharist, you can not be saved, short of the mercy of God.

As for the Sacrament of Penance or Confession or Reconciliation, (all the same thing), It is totally and 100% scriptural. Short of the mercy of God, you can not be saved without it. There is such thing as Mortal Sin, check out the 10 commandments. There is no assurance of going to heaven if you are living in Sin. We all sin, unless God has given us the grace to be born free from all sin, which only one has. You must be baptized, receive the Holy Eucharist and remain free from sin in order to see that final beatific vision. The only place you will find the true “plan of salvation” is in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ on the rock of the Apostle Peter.

He told them, “As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” St. John 20:21-23

If he had not intended for us to confess our sins, why would he have given them the power to forgive and retain. This is not symbolic speech, but a direct command. The power to forgive and retain is passed down, from the Apostles to the Bishops and then to the Priest.

You are right about the precepts of the Church only applying to those within it. Those who have separated themselves from Christ’s church are not bound by any of it’s laws or Christ’s commands as they are not Christians.(Technically anyway, due to the choice not to follow all of Christ’s teachings)

Unfortunately Hell is a reality, it is real and it is eternal. For those who die with unconfessed Mortal Sin, it becomes an instantaneous prison with no hope for release. You can not go to Heaven without being in a state of sanctifying Grace.

Here is a better explanation of the Sacrament of Penance

newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

We do serve a merciful God, but who are we to presume on the mercy of God. It is arrogant I believe to think we can find a better way to Heaven than that followed by Christians for centuries. Just because we disagree with something, doesn’t make it wrong. Just because one can take a verse of Scripture out of context doesn’t make it say what they are trying to make it say.

I will not touch the subject of other faiths here, because I believe it is our job to bring them in to the fold.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The real truth of the matter is most Protestants do committ Mortal sins–aren’t perfectly contrite for them–deny the Sacrament of Reconciliation–and yes do go to Hell!

Another truth is that some Protestants “Do Know Better”–do refuse to Eat Jesus’ Body and Drink His Blood–and yes do go to Hell as a result!

What the Catholic Church Needs to teach is Not that all Protestants go to Hell because this is false–some either never committ a mortal sin before death or are perfectly contrite for any mortal sins they have and then die immediately afterwards–or they’re children before the age of reason or they are mentally incapacitated to the point to where they are incapable of committing a mortal sin.

All these Protestants do go to Heaven.

For the vast majority of Protestants the chances of Hell are great!

Billy Graham always preached that if you didn’t accept Jesus that you would go to Hell!

Why is it that the some in the Catholic Church that know what is needed for one to die in a state of grace will not preach that truth to Protestants who are in danger of going to Hell and desparately need to hear it?

 

[mgrobertson79]

Why is it that the some in the Catholic Church that know what is needed for one to die in a state of grace will not preach that truth to Protestants who are in danger of going to Hell and desparately need to hear it?

I think it is because they doubt the teachings of the Church themselves, or they feel that people are ok where they are, no need to convert. I have heard this before and as a convert myself, their is no guarantee of salvation outside the Catholic Church. There is however a true plan to gain Salvation in the Catholic Church, following Christ as he leads us to that beatific vision. To some Heaven is like a state of mind, a dream, another world. To me Heaven is a real place, an Eternal place and a truly joyous place. Hell on the other hand is often denied, downplayed or toyed with. Hell is a real place. The image we are given from Sacred Scripture is of a place burning with fire and brimstone. This is not a vacation spot my friend, this is eternal punishment, damnation on an unimaginable scale.

We have a duty, to our Lord, to our Neighbor and to ourselves to shout this from the rooftops(metaphorically speaking). We can not keep quiet while our Neighbor continues on a path that leads to certain doom. This is not talk from the dark ages, this is today, 2007. This is serious and without Christ and his Church, the Eucharist and Penance, you will surely suffer. We can not presume on the mercy of God.

To say there is salvation outside of the Catholic Church is to say that Christ did not seriously mean “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;”, but something totally opposite. There was no alternate plan laid out by our Lord. There are two paths, the wide that leads to destruction and the narrow that leads to salvation. This narrow path has no alternatives. The Church has taught us what we need to do to follow Christ and serve him. To do anything else is to follow the wide path, which by the way is simple and easy for all those who want an easy way out of the Churches teachings.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

***Originally posted by Carol Coombe ***They say to God or Christ that they are sorry: they do not feel the need to have a mediator in this intimate relationship.
Originally Posted by guanophore *Many do not feel the need for a saviour, either, but does that make it so? *

I am not sure whether you are saying many protestants do not feel the need for a savious, or that many people do not. If the former, you are mis-speaking. Do you believe protestant Christians do not long for a saviour? On what basis or evidence?
I have become very tangled up in the CCC on the issues of informed conscience, evil, sin and forgiveness because they are scrambled in various places of the text. I would not comment for protestant Christians on this - I am too far away from it. All I could do would be to look at the concordance.

***Carol ***There is no such thing called ‘perfect contrition’ unless the individual wants to call it that.
Guanophore Your rejection of a concept taught by the church does not cause the concept to cease to exist. You can refuse to accept the teaching, but to say that “there is no such thing” is a little broad.

I intended to imply that for the protestant Christian, there is no such thing. That does not prevent the Magisterium from issuing on it, and calling it such. I did not mean to imply, ever, that ‘there is no such thing’. If the Catholic Church deems that there is such a thing, then for those who choose to be Catholic Christians, there is.

***Carol ***There is no such thing as a sacramental confession by a protestant Christian to a Catholic priest.
***Guanophore ***In general, I think you are right. I think people have to be received into the church before they are allowed this sacrament [except in emergency circumstances like war.

Catholics die in their way; protestant Christians die in theirs. Both will attain life everlasting by God’s grace. Just as those from other faiths, as we see in the Dogmatic Constitution Vatican II, will also be saved, far from the sacrament of confession to a Catholic priest. Please understand that many Christians believe that the intercession of a priest is not necessary at any stage.

***Carol ***You have quoted the rules of the Catholic Church. They do not apply to all Christians, nor to persons of other faiths.
***Guanophore ***Actually, I think they do! The refusal of the separated brethren to abide by the rules does not make them invalid.

That is your choice to apply the rules of the Catholic Church to all Christians, to decide that they are the only salvific rules for all of Christendom. Those of us who are, it is suggested, relativists, would rather encourage a degree of freedom with regard to the interpretation of the scriptures and the practice of Christian values.

There was no intention to suggest that because protestant Christians have their own practices, the rules of the Catholic Church are invalid. They are of course valid. Christian values are commonly shared; it is scriptural interpretation and ritual (the scraments in particular) which may differ. We respect each other, and that includes the making of choices - at least as far as the hierarchies of mainline denominations are concerned. Would that it were so at the level of individual Christians.

Blessings

 

[guanophore]

I am not sure whether you are saying many protestants do not feel the need for a savious, or that many people do not. If the former, you are mis-speaking. Do you believe protestant Christians do not long for a saviour? On what basis or evidence?

Actually I was thinking about Pagan friends of mine at the time, but it applies across the board. Some improperly catechized CAtholics don’t understand salvation either. Most protestants have a better grasp of the need for a savior than Catholics! Or at least, how salvation works (by grace, through faith). My point was that rejection of the truths taught to us by Christ does not invalidate their truth.

I intended to imply that for the protestant Christian, there is no such thing. That does not prevent the Magisterium from issuing on it, and calling it such. I did not mean to imply, ever, that ‘there is no such thing’. If the Catholic Church deems that there is such a thing, then for those who choose to be Catholic Christians, there is.

Actuallly, that is how I read it. But it got me to thinking that this is the truth that Jesus passed on to us through His apostles, and it applies to all who call themselves after His name, whether they accept it or not. Just as the teaching on the Body and Blood, rejected by most of Christendom.

Catholics die in their way; protestant Christians die in theirs. Both will attain life everlasting by God’s grace. Just as those from other faiths, as we see in the Dogmatic Constitution Vatican II, will also be saved, far from the sacrament of confession to a Catholic priest. Please understand that many Christians believe that the intercession of a priest is not necessary at any stage.

I realize that. However, the failure of people to accept the teaching does not invalidate the teaching.

That is your choice to apply the rules of the Catholic Church to all Christians, to decide that they are the only salvific rules for all of Christendom. Those of us who are, it is suggested, relativists, would rather encourage a degree of freedom with regard to the interpretation of the scriptures and the practice of Christian values.

Actually, that would not be my choice, being more personally inclined to relativism, as you are. However, that is how I understand the teaching, notwithstanding.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Catholics die in their way; protestant Christians die in theirs. Both will attain life everlasting by God’s grace. Just as those from other faiths, as we see in the Dogmatic Constitution Vatican II, will also be saved, far from the sacrament of confession to a Catholic priest. Please understand that many Christians believe that the intercession of a priest is not necessary at any stage

Christ did not lay down two paths to Eternal Life, one for Catholics and One for everyone else. There is but one way to salvation. To argue this is to totally reject Christ and the gift he has given us. There is a reason you are here. I pray that the truth(not what you think the truth is)be revealed to you, and that you recieve the graces Christ has waiting for you in the Catholic Church. Once you choose to reject the Catholic Church, you choose the other path, the wide path that Christ speaks of. Only those who through invinsible ignorance do not know of the truth of the Catholic Church can have any chance of Gods grace. If protestants are saved it isn’t by grace, but through the mercy of God, due to their obstinant rejection and persecution of His Church.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Carol Coombe;2184217:

Without the Eucharist, you cannot be saved, short of the mercy of God.

You make a plain statement of Catholic belief and practice, which we accept as part of CC dogma. However, the Eucharist, as defined by CC, is not the choice of protestant denominations as a principal foundation on which to build Christian life now, or eternal life hereafter. The core of the CC service is the Eucharist - and eternal salvation - while the core of mainline protestant denominations is the sermon - and Christian life and service now.

Protestants could say sorry they reject the Catholic Eucharist for themselves, just as Catholics could say sorry transubstantiation excludes all other Christians from Catholic communion. But that is not likely to happen.

The Sacrament of Penance or Reconciliation is totally scriptural. There is such thing as Mortal Sin (10 commandments). You must be baptized, receive the Holy Eucharist and remain free from sin in order to see that final beatific vision. The only place you will find the true “plan of salvation” is in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Thank you for this brief outline of elements of Catholic faith and its seven sacraments. In the Nicene Creed, Catholics and Protestants alike recognise one, holy, catholic and apostolic church (check your missal).

The term ‘sacrament’ is divisive perhaps: 'Taken together, these are the Seven Sacraments as recognised by churches in the High church tradition - notably Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Independent Catholic, Old Catholic and some Anglicans. Other denominations* and traditions typically affirm only Baptism and Eucharist as sacraments.*’ (Lazy: Wikipedia)

Baptism and communion are fundamental to protestant practice; the others are not and (as far as I can know) are not essential to salvation.

If He had not intended for us to confess our sins, why would He have given priests power to forgive and retain?

Again, I suggest there is a difference in interpretation and practice. I cannot defend the interpretations of the mainline protestant denominations: I only know what I, as a baptised (immersion) protestant, learned and fully accepted in my baptism and worship. I find it, as an adult, not unjustifiable. I am very sure of one thing: that there is no need of an intercessor(s) between the sinner and God.

The precepts of the [Catholic] Church apply to those within it. Those separated from Christ’s [Catholic] church are not bound by any of its laws or Christ’s commands as they are not Christians

.(Technically anyway, due to the choice not to follow all of Christ’s teachings) You make assumptions that are not your prerogative to make. First, what you call ‘Christ’s Church’ is actually the Catholic Church, one Christian denomination and the largest by far. Those who rejected the excesses of the Catholic Church in the middle ages, and chose a reformed doctrine and practice are indeed Christians, as their teachings, the teachings of the Catholic Church, and the scriptures confirm.

Unfortunately Hell is a reality, …with no hope for release. You can not go to Heaven without being in a state of sanctifying Grace.

I assume this is the Teaching of the CC. Thank you for this information.

It is arrogant I believe to think we can find a better way to Heaven than that followed by Catholic Christians for centuries. Just because we disagree with something, doesn’t make it wrong.

What can I say? You have said it all*: Just because we disagree with something does not make it wrong. *The fact that a Catholic Christian mistrusts a protestant interpretation or practice does not make it wrong. The fact that a protestant Christian cannot accept certain interpretations and rituals of the CC does not mean that they are invalid or wrong.

I wonder, when I see an impassioned plea like yours, why you are concerned about protestant Christian practice. Is it because (1) you dislike being disagreed with; (2) you feel cross that the schism happened and perhaps guilty; (3) you want to save the souls of the poor lost Christians wandering about in the desert; or (4) as you feel under attack too often, you need to attack back?

I think the motive for asserting Catholic Truth against protestant ignorance is moot, and differs from Christian to Christian. I think it unnecessary; it is not something I do, and the papacy has spoken out against the pleasure some Catholic Christians take in ‘knowing’ that many Christian brethren will go to Hell. However I do appreciate that there is plenty of bigotry on the protestant side of the fence.

Blessings

 

[Carol_Coombe]

The real truth of the matter is most Protestants do committ Mortal sins–aren’t perfectly contrite for them–deny the Sacrament of Reconciliation–and yes do go to Hell! Another truth is that some Protestants “Do Know Better”–do refuse to Eat Jesus’ Body and Drink His Blood–and yes do go to Hell as a result!

The papacy has spoken out against this kind of attitude. On what facts do you base your statement of the ‘real truth’? I assume it is a guess based on what you prefer to ‘know’.

Why is it that the some in the Catholic Church that know what is needed for one to die in a state of grace will not preach that truth to Protestants who are in danger of going to Hell and desparately need to hear it?

Lots of Catholics do! Just as many protestants are concerned for the eternal welfare of their Catholic Christian brethren.

Blessings

 

[Carol_Coombe]

I think it is because they doubt the teachings of the [Catholic] Church themselves, or they feel that people are ok where they are, no need to convert. I have heard this before and as a convert myself, their is no guarantee of salvation outside the Catholic Church. … To say there is salvation outside of the Catholic Church is to say that Christ did not seriously mean “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;”. There are two paths, the wide that leads to destruction and the narrow that leads to salvation. This narrow path has no alternatives. The [Catholic] Church has taught us what we need to do to follow Christ and serve him. To do anything else is to follow the wide path, which by the way is simple and easy for all those who want an easy way out of the [Catholic] Churches teachings.

We see the same doctrinal anguish on post after post. And that anguish is understandable. There is however a limited extent to which we can pursue these issues of doctrine.

For me, the primary focus is not on the means of eternal salvation for ME, but the example set by Christ’s mission to humanity and how that affects what I do NOW. Interpretation by the Church of what God intended Christ to achieve, and what Christ intended and did achieve are far more important matters than transubstantiation and grave or venal sin. God is a God of love.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

My point was that rejection of the truths taught to us by Christ does not invalidate their truth.

I agree completely. I would also add that rejection of the truths taught in good faith by the Catholic Church does not invalidate their truth. They constitute the foundation for the belief of the Catholic faithful, and as such must be respected.

The truth Jesus passed on to us through His apostles, applies to all who call themselves after His name, whether they accept it or not.

First of all, it is for each Christian to choose his or her own understanding of the truth of Christ. I do not believe that any of us has any privileged information that we might call The One Absolute Truth. Interpretation of Christ’s mission and his messages passed on through his Apostles are understood variably.

Similarly, it is not ‘cafeteria Christianity’ to choose which beliefs your tiny mind and soul can accept and live with. Those who are cradled in one denomination, those who do not think about which denomination they happen to adhere to, those who do not practice their faith other than by taking communion/being married-buried according to their denomination’s practice - all these seem to have failed to make any choice for Christ, for salvation, for eternal life.

So what is ‘the truth Christ passed on’ (and I do not accept that for all Christians it is only only only the interpretation of the Catholic papacy and magisterium that counts here), and how do we define ‘acceptance’ of that truth?

Failure of people to accept the teaching does not invalidate the teaching.

Absolutely right on - for both Catholic and protestant Christian denominations. Although some sects do, invariably, offer ‘truths’ that are utterly unacceptable to any Christian - and it is difficult in some cases to know where to draw the line of validation, never mind who should do the actual validation.

Blessings

Jabulani!

 

[down_under]

You are suffering from a serious misunderstanding of what the catholic church is. Every protestant, every last one, is a catholic in some way. there is only 1 universal church. The same universal church they were baptised into. they are not in full communion with the church. Easy enough to see. Some never will be by there own choice. Fair enough. But there is only 1 church founded by the one christ. The Pope is Papa over all christians. Indeed over all the world, and seeks to bring all souls to God. Not just some. They are seperated from the full communion with the church. Not from the church all together. Why do you think when they convert there baptisoms are still valid as long as they used the from proscribed by christ in the bible. I think you need to dig a little deeper into the triple C. You are going to find that the claims of the catholic church are much bigger then you think they are. The catholic church really is either Gods own church or the devils playground. The Pope is either the vicor of Christ or the biggest longerst running line of dictators that ever was established. There is no middle ground. That is why the agrument is so intence. because those are the only options for the catholic church to be. There is no room for anything else. No middle ground. Christ is God, Morally curropt or insane. There is no room for anything else once one claims to be God out of his own mouth. We believe he is God. Same thingn with the Pope. He claims to much, because of this there is no middle ground. Good man does not exist if you CLAIM to be the vicor of christ. You either are or you aren’t that is the argument.

 

[guanophore]

The papacy has spoken out against this kind of attitude. On what facts do you base your statement of the ‘real truth’? I assume it is a guess based on what you prefer to ‘know’.

Lots of Catholics do! Just as many protestants are concerned for the eternal welfare of their Catholic Christian brethren.

Blessings

As well they should be! Warming the pew and going through the motions does not a life of faith make!

For me, the primary focus is not on the means of eternal salvation for ME, but the example set by Christ’s mission to humanity and how that affects what I do NOW. Interpretation by the Church of what God intended Christ to achieve, and what Christ intended and did achieve are far more important matters than transubstantiation and grave or venal sin. God is a God of love.

The way the Eucharist and reconciliation are intimately tied with your values is that it is in transubstantiation that Christ chose to manifiest his Love for us most immediately. Sin, whether grave or venial, separates us from that love. Therefore, the sacraments are the means by which we can remain in his love and purpose so that we can then implement most fully the mission to which he has called us.

 

[mgrobertson79]

You make assumptions that are not your prerogative to make. First, what you call ‘Christ’s Church’ is actually the Catholic Church, one Christian denomination and the largest by far. Those who rejected the excesses of the Catholic Church in the middle ages, and chose a reformed doctrine and practice are indeed Christians, as their teachings, the teachings of the Catholic Church, and the scriptures confirm.

Actually, now that you mention preogatives, here goes.

I was born in 1979 to the daughter of a Southern Baptist minister and the adopted son of another. I grew up going to church every Sunday morning and night, and Wednesday night. I walked down the aisle when I was 9 and accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. For the next years I continued to grow in the Lord until it seemed like I had run into a wall. I dedn’t realize what that wall was, but I believe now it was Christ himself and his Church.

I fell away, what some may call backsliding, what we as Catholics call Mortal Sin for a period of several years. During those years, I would get the opportunity to listen to Mother Angelica and the other programs on EWTN radio and started to explore the Catholic faith. I began to pray again and I also learned and prayed the rosary. I had started my journey back home, to Christ and his Church.

In the fall of 2004, I enter RCIA at Our Lady of Lourdes in Monroe, NC, my hometown and it was there that I met our Blessed Lord, face to face, in the Holy Eucharist. It was then that I knew what my life had been missing. The following Easter, 2005 I was unable to be at the Easter Vigil, but soon after I was recieved into the Church and on June 21, 2005, Bishop Peter J. Jugis confimed my in the Catholic faith.

I have had a few ups and downs since then, but life is good now. I do feel a certain loss, for those who refuse to open their clouded eyes to the truth, those who accept lies that are told them without looking at the source first.

I am now discerning a call to the religious life. I believe I am being called to the Trappist life and will be praying and seeking God’s direction over the coming months. I will continue to pray for the conversion of souls, both protestant, Catholic and others.

I am truly grateful to Catholic Answers, both for the help along my personal journey and for providing a place where we can discuss and defend the faith.

I commend all who, though maybe not Catholic, open themselves to searching for the truth. May you, in Gods time, find the truth of His Church.

BTW, The Catholic Church is not a denomination. All others who consider themselves Christian, denominate themselves from us. Also the teaching of the Church is Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, meaning Outside the Church there is no salvation. This has been the teaching of the Church since the time of the Apostles.

Forth Lateran Council, “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.”

Pope Pelagius II, “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great, “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.”

Second Vatican Council, “They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.”

 

[guanophore]

First of all, it is for each Christian to choose his or her own understanding of the truth of Christ. I do not believe that any of us has any privileged information that we might call The One Absolute Truth. Interpretation of Christ’s mission and his messages passed on through his Apostles are understood variably.

It is true that each human being must reckon with God as an individual. I think it is also true that no one person can know Absolute TTruth. However, The One Absolute Truth was incarnated, and revealed HImself to us. This revelation has been passed down through the apostolic succession. therefore,we have a source to know this truth. Yes, there has been much variation in our understanding, but if we can grasp that it is our understanding that varies, and not the Truth, we can continue to work at understanding the Revelation until we come into compliance with it.

Similarly, it is not ‘cafeteria Christianity’ to choose which beliefs your tiny mind and soul can accept and live with. Those who are cradled in one denomination, those who do not think about which denomination they happen to adhere to, those who do not practice their faith other than by taking communion/being married-buried according to their denomination’s practice - all these seem to have failed to make any choice for Christ, for salvation, for eternal life.

It seems that there are many that are acculturated, and have not made the journey of faith. On the other hand, the culture from which Jesus came was that way, and was full of people who were acculturated into faith from birth. I agree that each of us must press on with sincerity by whatever means our tiny minds and souls can grasp. We search for him and feel after him like groping in a dark room. I would not call this cafeteria. Especially in your case!

So what is ‘the truth Christ passed on’ (and I do not accept that for all Christians it is only only only the interpretation of the Catholic papacy and magisterium that counts here), and how do we define ‘acceptance’ of that truth?

I assume this question is rhetorical?

Absolutely right on - for both Catholic and protestant Christian denominations. Although some sects do, invariably, offer ‘truths’ that are utterly unacceptable to any Christian - and it is difficult in some cases to know where to draw the line of validation, never mind who should do the actual validation.

Which is why we so value the magesterium.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

That God of Love will never allow anyone to enter Heaven witn any taint of mortal sin.

That’s a fact.

It doesn’t matter who believes it or not!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Tell me oh great includers of the separated bretheren the answer to this one simple question:

How are Protestants after committing a Mortal sin–absent perfect contrition or sacramental confession to a Catholic priest–reconciled to God–avoid dying in a state of mortal sin–and avoid Hell?

Ignorance, Jerry.

They do not know that what they are doing is a mortal sin; therefore, they are not fully culpable.

Ironically, the Protestants who hang out on this site are less ignorant than others, so they are more culpable for not converting to the Catholic Church.

 

[ncjohn]

I will have to admit to only scanning through these posts, since there once again seems to be much repetition, but the Church’s teaching on the whole thing is pretty succinctly stated, both in the catechism and in this passage from Unitatis Redintegratio, 3):

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. **These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.**

Yes, we should be trying to help Protestants find the fullness of the faith. But to be making claims that they cannot be saved is just pure and simply outside of Church teaching and back into Feeneyism.

Peace,