Protestants: Challenge: Do not use Scripture: Use Logic and Reasoning: Are you sinless (Perfect)?

[Mannyfit75]

I will say this and then let this die… Whether you say the words or just skirt around it but mean it just the same you are still calling people idiots because the meaning is still there. I have not reported your rudeness to the moderators though I believe I am certainly within my right to do so since you blatantly broke the rule but I believe in turning the other cheek. I hope you learn a bit more charity.

Peace.

And it is apparent you missed this post:

You draw your conclusions to such but calling you idiots would be against Forum Rules. I was only kind enough to word it in such a way so it wouldn’t be so offensive. However, it is apparent, you are, and I’m apologized

 

[bogeydogg]

At the time the only Scriptures available to the Apostles was the Hebrew Text. The New Testament was not written 20-30 after the day of Pentecost. The OT Scripture testify that Jesus is the Promised Messiah.

Actually, the text most commonly used by the Jews of Jesus’ day is the LXX, and it was Greek. Part of the reason that some books, such as Maccabees were excluded by the exilic Jews in 90 AD, as well as some of the truly disturbing prophesies of Messiah which acutely pointed to Jesus, is because there were no known copies of these books in Hebrew.

Understand I am not defending the exclusion of these books from the Canon, I am only saying that you assertion about there only being one set of Scriptures is erroneous.

One more thing, even during the Apostolic period there was already a written record of the Gospel (Mark) and the Paulline Letters were being circulated which were recognized as Scripture as well. I would think logic demands that you make more accurate historical statements or study better before making such broad brush assertions.

Of course now you’re going to call me an idiot too but hey, I’ve been called worse.

 

[BrewMax]

I will say this and then let this die… Whether you say the words or just skirt around it but mean it just the same you are still calling people idiots because the meaning is still there. I have not reported your rudeness to the moderators though I believe I am certainly within my right to do so since you blatantly broke the rule but I believe in turning the other cheek. I hope you learn a bit more charity.

Peace.

Amen

 

[BrewMax]

We do need Scripture but we Christians are not dependent of the Holy Book. We are dependent on Jesus Christ, who is always with us.

Good so you are up for the challenge then? So, Max. How do make yourself perfect?

We are dependent upon the Scriptures because they are the inherent Word of God. Our depending upon Holy Scripture IS depending upon Jesus Christ. His Holy Words are contained in the gospels and he speaks countless times in his preachings, “it is written”. Jesus showed an obvious serious conscience to the Scriptures so obviously we should as well. As far as how do I make myself perfect?? Here we go again. The Scripture address this as well. Jesus sacrificed for us so that in him, we can be made perfect. We cannot do that for ourselves for all have fallen short of the grace of God.

 

[mozart-250]

Paul use debated with Greeks without Scripture. If he can do it, so can you.

Well I don’t know what to debate.

I just asked my wife and she said I was not perfect. So there it is.

I don’t think I am perfect either. But I had to ask to make sure.

As far as your question goes…if you die tonight do you think you are worthy of heaven.

Well actually no.

I still don’t know what to debate.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually, the text most commonly used by the Jews of Jesus’ day is the LXX, and it was Greek. Part of the reason that some books, such as Maccabees were excluded by the exilic Jews in 90 AD, as well as some of the truly disturbing prophesies of Messiah which acutely pointed to Jesus, is because there were no known copies of these books in Hebrew.

I am well aware of that. In fact not all Jews are in agreement. The Ethiopian Jews uses the LXX to the present day. They do not believe the Council of Jamnia bears any authority concerning OT canon.

The official Scripture of the Eastern Orthodox by the way is the LXX as well as the Greek NT.

Understand I am not defending the exclusion of these books from the Canon, I am only saying that you assertion about there only being one set of Scriptures is erroneous.

Well, I have in no way making a proclamation that Scripture is not uncessary. I believe the Scripture is fruitful and worthy use for teaching if it is interpreted correctly.

One more thing, even during the Apostolic period there was already a written record of the Gospel (Mark) and the Paulline Letters were being circulated which were recognized as Scripture as well. I would think logic demands that you make more accurate historical statements or study better before making such broad brush assertions.

Actually there wasn’t. When the Apostles preached it was preached orally. Paul’s letter was written around 53 AD and it is believed Jesus died in the year 27.

Here is a timeline;

50 AD. I, II Thessalonians completed.
53 AD Philemon, Philippians, Galatians, followed by 1 & 2 Corinthians and Romans in 58 AD.

Gospel of Mark 60 AD, Gospel of Matthew 80-90 AD, Gospel of Luke and Acts last 1/3 of 1st Century.

Colossians, Ephesians, 1 and 2 Timothy 60 AD as well as Titus. Letter of James 70 AD. I & II Peter probably 70-90 AD. Gospel of John late 1st Century, as well as Revelation written in late 1st Century. The letter of 1 John, 2, and 3 John was written around year 100.

If you noticed there is a 10-20 year gab from the time of the death of Christ or his ascension. If you want cite these feel free to do so.

Yes, these Gospels were written by the Apostle, Matthew, John, and Mark. Luke the disciple of Paul wrote Acts and the Gospel of Luke. The Epistles of Paul, he wrote them, as Peter wrote his own letters, James also and John. They wrote it 10-20 yrs after the death or ascension of Our Lord.

I just want to make it clear when the Apostles preached first, they never put it in writing. It was 10-20 years later.

Here is the reference. Feel free to explore this.

drury.edu/ess/values/christianscriptures.html

 

[Mannyfit75]

We are dependent upon the Scriptures because they are the inherent Word of God. Our depending upon Holy Scripture IS depending upon Jesus Christ. His Holy Words are contained in the gospels and he speaks countless times in his preachings, “it is written”. Jesus showed an obvious serious conscience to the Scriptures so obviously we should as well. As far as how do I make myself perfect?? Here we go again. The Scripture address this as well. Jesus sacrificed for us so that in him, we can be made perfect. We cannot do that for ourselves for all have fallen short of the grace of God.

Through God’s grace man cannot be made perfect. So far you have not quoted Scripture. At most you paraphrase Scripture. If you noticed I also paraphrase without quoting Scripture.

 

[BrianH]

=Mannyfit75;2954559]
Gospel of Mark 60 AD, Gospel of Matthew 80-90 AD, Gospel of Luke and Acts last 1/3 of 1st Century.

colby.edu/rel/2gh/

Or not

 

[123zab]

I have a question for Protestants since most of you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Are you no sinless?

Or are you imperfect? If you are imperfect, and you die now, do you think you would be worthy of Heaven?

I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.

The word of God is above all human reasoning.

**Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. **